I think Boeheim is taking the easy way out too much

[orangenirvana]

winning 80% of your games gets you to regional finals and final 4s. they've been good. 28 and 6 doesn't suck

i'm more partial to more volatile outcomes. maybe lose some of the consistency for that one amazing reward.

ending the season twice in a row not approaching 60 pts sticks in my craw

Sounds like you're more partial to scoring a lot of points than you are volatile outcomes. Although it's probably one in the same - being good offensively and bad defensively is prone to volatility. I prefer consistency myself, but I see where you're coming from.

 

[TheCusian]

If I'm recruiting top HS kids against JB I simply say "Well, y'know, Syracuse's offense doesn't really utilize the big men very much and the NBA doesn't play 2-3 zone. We work on post offense and man defense here which is what they predominantly play at the next level. My job is to get you ready for the NBA and I can do that better than SU." I just can't help but think that the zone is a detriment to recruiting high quality big men. It doesn't develop them at all for the NBA. Also, all you have to look at is how we never use big men in the offense. JB's big thing is to have big men that can run the zone and block shots, any offensive benefits are an afterthought.

Arinze was option 1 or 2. We tried to play through Fab his soph year. Coleman. Hill. If they prove they are good down there, JB will use them all of the time.

He even tried with Christmas this year. Christmas just isn't as sure down there.

 

[Shermthegeneral]

We just need scorers. Every team that has won this weekend has guys who can score. Guys who can make shots. We just didnt have that this year and were on borrowed time with the success we had early on

That's the key to our lack of success this year. This team had everything else but lacked at least one person breaking their man down and getting to the basket on a consistent basis and scoring. It's been years since we haven't had that. The list below shows that we had at least 2 and as many as 4 players capable of doing it.

2013 Triche, MCW
2012 Dion, Scoop, Triche, KJ
2011 Scoop, KJ, Triche,
2010 Scoop, Triche, KJ, Johnson
2009 Flynn, Devo

 

[kuethstheman]

I also think it's oversimplifying to say he sacrifices a lot to get zone types. Aside from some he has on this team, you don't have to go back too far to find teams that were loaded with non-zone types.

 

[Alsacs]

Legit criticism is fair. I don't think JB should be removed like some idiots as he is Syracuse basketball and built the damn program from nothing more than a regular power to a national power. However, we freaking repeat the same mistakes year after year. Questioning why we only have 7 scholarship players getting action is legitimate. I don't get how you can recruit 12 guys and only expect to use 8 of them. You should care about the future, but only have 1 or 2 projects NOT 4. I get Coleman being out for the season hurt, but we had 1 3 pt threat and he wasn't consistent and killed our offense.

I agree that Fair is a 2nd or 3rd option rather than a 1st option, but then where the heck did JB expect the help to come from. I didn't expect Ennis to be as good as he was I thought he was special, but again he was a Freshman and sometimes he is going to struggle. I agree a little with OP's point, but people saying because JB has 950 wins doesn't mean he can be questioned is wrong. Our teams regress historically over the season I mean if instead of going 13-0 in non-conference games playing 7 guys we would go 11-2 or 12-1 and develop 9-10 guys wouldn't be the worst thing. People want to make feast or famine comments like they are the only 2 alternatives. We wouldn't necessarily go 9-4 or 8-5 developing 2 or 3 extra guys 8-12 mpg game and having more options for January-March if some guys struggled.

The program losing Bernie Fine working with the big men has hurt I believe. I think Hopkins will be a fine HC, but he is better served with the guards. We have 3 guard assistant coaches and our bigs haven't developed enough since Fab Melo in 12 and Jackson in 11.

 

[orangenirvana]

If I'm recruiting top HS kids against JB I simply say "Well, y'know, Syracuse's offense doesn't really utilize the big men very much and the NBA doesn't play 2-3 zone. We work on post offense and man defense here which is what they predominantly play at the next level. My job is to get you ready for the NBA and I can do that better than SU."

I just can't help but think that the zone is a detriment to recruiting high quality big men. It doesn't develop them at all for the NBA.

Also, all you have to look at is how we never use big men in the offense. JB's big thing is to have big men that can run the zone and block shots, any offensive benefits are an afterthought.

They just recently landed the #1 center in the country three years in a row (Melo, Christmas, Coleman). I can't imagine how good recruiting will be when the zone isn't a detriment to recruiting.

I don't think JB is against big men who can do something offensively (Arinze Onuaku). I also don't think Boeheim expected Christmas to not develop a semblance of an offensive game through three seasons.

 

[rrlbees]

True but they can also double him and risk another defender helping out because he knows that there isnt a guy they can kick it out too that will make a shot

They double him because they know he can't or won't pass and the one guy he could kick to is always covered because his man doesn't leave him. In fact, due to the attention Cooney gets, when CJ is doubled it leaves the others 3-2. But they know CJ can't dribble out of it usually and can't/won't pass much. When he is doubled and Cooney is deep with a defender, the others should be going to open spots or cutting to the basket and CJ passing it out if trouble. But there's little movement because everyone stands around watching CJ.

 

[Madbiker]

JB's system works. You just have to have the right players in the roles. If this team had Andy Rautins at SG instead of Cooney and Josh Pace coming off the bench we'd still be playing.

 

[Millhouse]

Sounds like you're more partial to scoring a lot of points than you are volatile outcomes. Although it's probably one in the same - being good offensively and bad defensively is prone to volatility. I prefer consistency myself, but I see where you're coming from.

i think we need to score more at the end of the year. i think in order to do that, we might have to suffer through some losses early with smaller players where a big long zone could squeak us through ugly

 

[Millhouse]

Legit criticism is fair. I don't think JB should be removed like some idiots as he is Syracuse basketball and built the damn program from nothing more than a regular power to a national power. However, we freaking repeat the same mistakes year after year. Questioning why we only have 7 scholarship players getting action is legitimate. I don't get how you can recruit 12 guys and only expect to use 8 of them. You should care about the future, but only have 1 or 2 projects NOT 4. I get Coleman being out for the season hurt, but we had 1 3 pt threat and he wasn't consistent and killed our offense.

I agree that Fair is a 2nd or 3rd option rather than a 1st option, but then where the heck did JB expect the help to come from. I didn't expect Ennis to be as good as he was I thought he was special, but again he was a Freshman and sometimes he is going to struggle. I agree a little with OP's point, but people saying because JB has 950 wins doesn't mean he can be questioned is wrong. Our teams regress historically over the season I mean if instead of going 13-0 in non-conference games playing 7 guys we would go 11-2 or 12-1 and develop 9-10 guys wouldn't be the worst thing. People want to make feast or famine comments like they are the only 2 alternatives. We wouldn't necessarily go 9-4 or 8-5 developing 2 or 3 extra guys 8-12 mpg game and having more options for January-March if some guys struggled.

The program losing Bernie Fine working with the big men has hurt I believe. I think Hopkins will be a fine HC, but he is better served with the guards. We have 3 guard assistant coaches and our bigs haven't developed enough since Fab Melo in 12 and Jackson in 11.

i thought hop did a fine job with Christmas until Boeheim decided to revert back to showing Christmas up in front of the whole world all the time

he give christmas no rope at all.

 

[Alsacs]

i thought hop did a fine job with Christmas until Boeheim decided to revert back to showing Christmas up in front of the whole world all the time

he give christmas no rope at all.

Honestly Rak gets taken out after scoring our first 4 points Saturday for a missed assignment, and Cooney stayed in too long when Gbinije was actually giving the team a spark on Saturday.

I don't know what Rak has said/done to JB in the past, but the dude clearly has a quick hook any time JB is mad at him.

Fine was a good big man coach. I like our coaching staff, but I wouldn't be disappointed if a spot opened up for new blood who has experience as an assistant and could work with on developing the bigs offense.

 

[BuffOrange]

True but they can also double him and risk another defender helping out because he knows that there isnt a guy they can kick it out too that will make a shot.

He's also not a very good "kicker" to begin with- which is another reason it's tough to run a good offense thru him.

 

[AZOrange]

True but they can also double him and risk another defender helping out because he knows that there isnt a guy they can kick it out too that will make a shot. We also are playing 4 on 5 every offensive possession and have been all season. God forbid we recruit a center who can actually score. I would cut off my pinky for Otis Hill on this team

What would you cut off for arinze? For Dc?

 

[AJDavCuse]

Likewise, in the same vein of taking the easy way out, I don't quite grasp why JB thinks its funny and points it out every chance he gets that he doesn't watch much game tape of opponents. Yes I know he watches a ton of games and yes, I'm sure the assistants are responsible for breaking down film, but why would a head coach want to preclude himself from getting an edge? It really boils down to the attitude that we will do things our way, not care what the other team does and not adjust to what they do. Quick and athletic or slow, unathletic team, we will sit back in zone and play the percentages. The results speak for themselves...we will win a lot of games, but also allow teams that shouldn't be in the game to have a chance to win. I kind of view this as taking the easy way out as well. Not trying to argue zone vs man, as there are a lot of ways we can extend zone, put on a full/half court zone press before dropping back into 2-3, etc. to dictate tempo better. Easy way out is to do the same thing year in and year out regardless of the pieces.

Tony Bennett has said after they got blown out by TN, they went back to drawing board, altered the approach, and changed the lineups. It can work and kids will respond accordingly. Can anyone point to a team where JB changed things up mid-season when his hand wasn't forced by injury, suspension, etc?

At the end of the day, we had to make shots and didn't, so I agree with JB on that. It just seems like after two months of the team not being able to score out of the offensive sets we were running, we would have tried something different simply to bring a new approach and see if the kids respond. Just not what we do.

 

[Millhouse]

Good post. If JB could select from any of these guys succeeding at midmajors (before knowing how their careers would turn out), would he do it? If we had recruited that blond Clark Kent looking dude from WSU would he come here? How about Early?

What I want to know is how did those guys learn to play ball so well?

When evaluating our recruits, we need to take the presence of an offensive skillset and what CoachOrange calls "situational awareness" more seriously. We need to develop it more seriously as well. In 4-5 years of "development" Keita still cannot catch a pass. Seriously? And Fair was mismanaged this year as well.

This whole season sticks in my craw. I am still trying to decide on which side I fall: "JB made them over-achieve" or "they underachieved and missed an opportunity". The bracket could not have broken any better for them.

I wonder who he'd pick AFTER knowing how their careers turned out

 

[Marsh01]

What would you cut off for arinze? For Dc?

my pair

 

[TheCusian]

The only concern I have regarding Syracuse basketball is who is leaving for the NBA or not.

Recruiting has never been better. Coaching and playing time is not the issue.

 

[EnnisEnvy]

They just recently landed the #1 center in the country three years in a row (Melo, Christmas, Coleman). I can't imagine how good recruiting will be when the zone isn't a detriment to recruiting.

I don't think JB is against big men who can do something offensively (Arinze Onuaku). I also don't think Boeheim expected Christmas to not develop a semblance of an offensive game through three seasons.

Melo was #2 (Rivals) and #4 (ScoutHoops) ranked center in 2010, Christmas was #2 (Rivals and SH) in 2011 weaknesses: scoring and post play, and Colemanwas #5 (Rivals) and #7 (SH).

I guess it worries me even more that we get such high caliber recruits that result in such poor production.

 

[sufandu]

I agree with the idea that JB may be risk averse, but I'll take it in a different direction. I think he doesn't risk enough wins early in the season in an attempt to develop players. How many teams lost early and are still playing now because their teams improved throughout the year. That's certainly what happened with us in '03. We lost to a solid but not great Memphis team to open and were able to run an absolute gauntlet in the tournament at the end. If we lose a few of our early games while letting some of our young guys learn from mistakes, maybe we find another shooter in the bunch. Maybe Cooney has fresher legs at the end of the year. Maybe we're in the same place we are right now, but I would be willing to risk the trade off.

 

[sufandu]

I would cut off my pinky for Otis Hill on this team

Otis, one of my all time favorites. Went from a foul machine to a great post scorer.

 

[TheCusian]

Melo was #2 (Rivals) and #4 (ScoutHoops) ranked center in 2010, Christmas was #2 (Rivals and SH) in 2011 weaknesses: scoring and post play, and Colemanwas #5 (Rivals) and #7 (SH). I guess it worries me even more that we get such high caliber recruits that result in such poor production.

Agreed. Final Fours mean nothing unless we're scoring on the block!

 

[Cusefan0307]

it involves risk. i would take a worse record in december to have some honest to goodness shooters and scorers and hope the zone is good enough

We had this in 08-09. We had a pretty good offense with multiple shooters (Eric, Andy, Flynn). We also got stuck with Andy Rautins playing the backline of the zone about half of each game and our defense wasn't that good. We saw how that ended against Oklahoma.

 

[Millhouse]

We had this in 08-09. We had a pretty good offense with multiple shooters (Eric, Andy, Flynn). We also got stuck with Andy Rautins playing the backline of the zone about half of each game and our defense wasn't that good. We saw how that ended against Oklahoma.

sometimes blake griffin kicks your ass and paul harris was a short forward who couldn't shoot.

i mentioned in one of the other 1000 posts of mine in this one thread but it's possible that boeheim overreacted to the harris problem by emphasizing length since shooting is a crapshoot

 

[Flacusian]

1000 Wins.

2 years away...

1000 wins, 1 national championship

In the end it's not about how many wins, it's about which games you win and when you win them.

 

[KaiserUEO]

1000 wins, 1 national championship

In the end it's not about how many wins, it's about which games you win and when you win them.

National Championship

Hall of Fame

thats all that needs to be known.



1000 wins is a nice number, not necessary.

2 championships would be nice, not necessary.



1 championship is nice...and necessary.