I think Boeheim is taking the easy way out too much

[rrlbees]

Honestly Rak gets taken out after scoring our first 4 points Saturday for a missed assignment, and Cooney stayed in too long when Gbinije was actually giving the team a spark on Saturday. I don't know what Rak has said/done to JB in the past, but the dude clearly has a quick hook any time JB is mad at him. Fine was a good big man coach. I like our coaching staff, but I wouldn't be disappointed if a spot opened up for new blood who has experience as an assistant and could work with on developing the bigs offense.

You realize the only time Cooney came in for G was with 41 seconds left? Every other time Cooney came in the game was for CJ (butt chewing) or Grant (foul trouble).

And like even players who are looked upon more fondly after they are gone, I guess it applies to coaches too. Most years people questioned Fines coaching ability and wanted him out.

 

[cuseguy]

National Championship Hall of Fame thats all that needs to be known. 1000 wins is a nice number, not necessary. 2 championships would be nice, not necessary. 1 championship is nice...and necessary.

Try living in Connecticut.

3 to 1 gets thrown in my face all the time.

 

[Mel03]

Melo was #2 (Rivals) and #4 (ScoutHoops) ranked center in 2010, Christmas was #2 (Rivals and SH) in 2011 weaknesses: scoring and post play, and Colemanwas #5 (Rivals) and #7 (SH).

I guess it worries me even more that we get such high caliber recruits that result in such poor production.

This is it. I have been a long time follower, but first time poster. This is what kills me. We sit on the recruit board, see top players fly into Syaracuse and play for us from all over the country and have hung one banner. The soon-to-be 1000 wins bring me happiness throughout the regular season, but the flameouts are worse because I spend 6 months with "what if?"

I mean, this trend is consistent. How many of these teams I will list below had more talent than us? I love Boeheim, but we have left ourselves with consistent opportunities for inferior players to make plays. Sorrentine, all the 3s against Dayton, still losing to Baylor without Onuaku. These teams should not have even been in the gym with our talent and athleticism. Not one of our losses were against teams that sped the ball up. Everyone has forced us to sit in the zone and stay in the game, ultimately losing far too often...these stats KILL me.

As someone above also said, "One championship is nice." Well, Pitino has 2, Donovan has 2, CAL-CHEATER-HOUN has 3?!?!?!?! We are on that level and probably above all those programs, but we don't get to feel the championships.

2004 Started 15-1, then lost 5 out of 8. -- LOST SWEET 16 AS A 4 SEED TO ALABAMA (8)
2005 Started 21-2, then lost 3 out of 4. -- LOST FIRST ROUND AS A 4 SEED TO VERMONT (13)
2006 Started 15-2, then lost 5 out of 6. -- LOST FIRST ROUND AS A 5 SEED TO TEXAS A&M (12)
2009 Started 16-1, then lost 5 out of 6. -- LOST AS 3 SEED IN SWEET SIXTEEN
2010 A legitimately excellent team that never had a bad stretch in regular season -- LOST AS 1 SEED IN SWEET 16 TO BUTLER (5)
2011 Started 18-0, then lost 4 straight. -- LOST IN 2ND ROUND AS 3 SEED TO MARQUETTE (11)
2012 A legitimate excellent team that never had a bad stretch. -- LOST IN ELITE 8 AS 2 SEED TO OHIO STATE
2013 Started 20-3, then lost 4 out of 5. -- MADE FINAL 4.
2014 Started 25-0, then lost 5 out of 7. -- LOST IN ROUND OF 32 AS 3 SEED TO DAYTON (11)

I love this school, team and program, but let's use our talent and staff to put us in positions to win in March and April, not November and December

 

[retro44]

Legit criticism is fair. I don't think JB should be removed like some idiots as he is Syracuse basketball and built the damn program from nothing more than a regular power to a national power. However, we freaking repeat the same mistakes year after year. Questioning why we only have 7 scholarship players getting action is legitimate. I don't get how you can recruit 12 guys and only expect to use 8 of them. You should care about the future, but only have 1 or 2 projects NOT 4. I get Coleman being out for the season hurt, but we had 1 3 pt threat and he wasn't consistent and killed our offense.

I agree that Fair is a 2nd or 3rd option rather than a 1st option, but then where the heck did JB expect the help to come from. I didn't expect Ennis to be as good as he was I thought he was special, but again he was a Freshman and sometimes he is going to struggle. I agree a little with OP's point, but people saying because JB has 950 wins doesn't mean he can be questioned is wrong. Our teams regress historically over the season I mean if instead of going 13-0 in non-conference games playing 7 guys we would go 11-2 or 12-1 and develop 9-10 guys wouldn't be the worst thing. People want to make feast or famine comments like they are the only 2 alternatives. We wouldn't necessarily go 9-4 or 8-5 developing 2 or 3 extra guys 8-12 mpg game and having more options for January-March if some guys struggled.

The program losing Bernie Fine working with the big men has hurt I believe. I think Hopkins will be a fine HC, but he is better served with the guards. We have 3 guard assistant coaches and our bigs haven't developed enough since Fab Melo in 12 and Jackson in 11.

The Carrier Dome is Syracuse basketball, everything else is replaceable,

 

[AZOrange]

The Carrier Dome is Syracuse basketball, everything else is replaceable,

You have some odd thing against JB?

 

[LennX6]

my point is that it's really hard to find scorers who are tailor made for a plug and play zone.

when you recruit zone first and say all we need are scorers, we're saying we need incredible length, ball handling and shooting

And when and if we ever find one, they'll be here a year.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Try living in Connecticut.

3 to 1 gets thrown in my face all the time.

just tell em calhouns a better coach...and hope Cuse continue to go to F4s with the new coach and they dont, for the Orange were in a F4 before JB and after...while they are army football.

 

[tbonezone]

i get that JB's committed to the zone. and that's not changing. but can't the old dude at least add a few more wrinkles to it?
how about flipping to a 3/2 once in a while? or a 1/3/1? or even a box and 1 when some lucky stroker goes plavich on us ?
surely if you can master the principles of the 2/3 zone you can also play these mild variations? shake it up a little JB.
right now teams know exactly what they're looking at every time down the floor. it's 2/3 or trunk monkey.

 

[NKR1978]

Maybe something has changed. I remember Troy Weaver saying that he had to adjust a bit to Boeheim's preferences - at the time, he was really in to "skill players" and would sacrifice some athleticism in favor of guys with more refined ball handling, shooting, passing, etc. That does sound a little different from the profile now.

I think the 2015 class is something the be excited about, since we seem to be getting length and shooting.

I'm excited about Lydon. He seems like someone Beilein would recruit and that is an offense I wish we could emulate.

 

[domestu]

They just recently landed the #1 center in the country three years in a row (Melo, Christmas, Coleman). I can't imagine how good recruiting will be when the zone isn't a detriment to recruiting.

Anthony Davis and Nerlens Noel were the top prep centers in the classes that produced Christmas and Coleman. The recruiting services differed wildly in their projections of Fab Melo but Jared Sullinger was considered the top center in the 2010 class. Keita was also rated among the top 15 big men that season.

What bothers me about these SU centers is all of them have very limited offensive skills. It would be nice to see a Syracuse post player who can score some points. I remember watching Fab in a high school all star game and thinking well, he can really block shots.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Would it of made a difference if we had Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker instead of CJ Fair? I mean they were supposed to be dominant players and Andrew Wiggins stat line mirrored Trevor Cooney's his final game. You can get the best recruits, have the best coaches, BUT the players still HAVE TO PERFORM. It's the tournament. A lot of it is luck. I think if we had one more shooter to go along with Cooney we would be a lot better off. The other four guys in our lineup were only good at scoring ten feet and in.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I caught a segment today on Sirius Ch. 91, the college sports network. Jack Arute and Bobby Cremins were hosting. They were talking everything college bball, tourney, etc. The conversation got steered into the direction of the overrated/underrated tourney coaches. Not by those guys but callers sort of started to take on this subject on their own along with plenty of Louisville/UK, WSU/UK, Calipari, etc. Incidentally, for those WSU haters, the overwhelming opinion was that WSU forced UK to play by far their best game of the season and a near perfect game to beat them.

Many callers called in voicing their opinion on overrated Tourney coaches. In terms of LONG tenured coaches Boeheim was mentioned quite a bit. One caller pointed out that Boeheim only has reached past the Sweet 16 6 times in 38 years. I didn't realize it was so few. Basically Boeheim (for the old timers) and Calipari/Barnes were discussed as doing 'less with more.' Granted, we were dealt some terrible luck with the AO/Fab scenarios but it was interesting the national perspective on this topic.

 

[Bayside44]

Try living in Connecticut.

3 to 1 gets thrown in my face all the time.

Need 2, like Eli needed 2.

 

[Czar]

Going to your issue with zone recruiting, those guys that are both LONG and amazingly skilled with the ball and shoot? Those guys are Top 10 recruits we whiff on every year. Wiggins, Davis, everyone else. After those guys we throw out the offensive need and go after the top rated athletic lengthy guys on the board.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Personally I find Christmas extremely frustrating and I understand the staff's frustration. He seems to totally fall asleep out there and lose focus. We can all see flashes of his ability to be a real difference maker but he has absolutely no consistency at all. His limitations seem self imposed. He ticks off referees by showing them up and smacking his arm on calls he doesn't get and is late getting back defensively by pouting about it. Refs will always win in the end. We all know Baye's short comings, Grant's limitations etc - what are Christmas's? I could name a different strength and weakness not only each game but every other play. He can be a great shot blocker when he puts his mind to it and he can be a defensive sieve the next minute, he can dunk with authority one minute and take a weak fade away on a rebound put back the next. He can be over aggressive and then totally passive and he's going to be a senior. His effort is so sporadic - motivating this kid seems to be a real issue and like his play he probably responds differently to efforts to motivate him.

 

[HurleyForHeisman]

Personally I find Christmas extremely frustrating and I understand the staff's frustration. He seems to totally fall asleep out there and lose focus. We can all see flashes of his ability to be a real difference maker but he has absolutely no consistency at all. His limitations seem self imposed. He ticks off referees by showing them up and smacking his arm on calls he doesn't get and is late getting back defensively by pouting about it. Refs will always win in the end. We all know Baye's short comings, Grant's limitations etc - what are Christmas's? I could name a different strength and weakness not only each game but every other play. He can be a great shot blocker when he puts his mind to it and he can be a defensive sieve the next minute, he can dunk with authority one minute and take a weak fade away on a rebound put back the next. He can be over aggressive and then totally passive and he's going to be a senior. His effort is so sporadic - motivating this kid seems to be a real issue and like his play he probably responds differently to efforts to motivate him.

I think you're being unduly harsh about Christmas. He had a 61% FG percentage, by far the best on the team. He averaged 1.9 blocks a game, by far the best on the team. He actually is one of the best big-man passers SU has had in years. He ended with the third best free throw percentage, better than CJ Fair. His block on Hood at the end of the Duke game was perhaps the biggest defensive play of the year. I think it is inexcusable for SU not to have taken more time to figure out an offense that gets him the ball more often. But he's constantly being yanked out of the lineup due to the coach's bad temper. If you want to know why SU's offense was so stagnant, look no further than the failure to use Rak more effectively.

 

[Dave85]

The only concern I have regarding Syracuse basketball is who is leaving for the NBA or not.

Recruiting has never been better. Coaching and playing time is not the issue.

I agree on the NBA part. But the disagree on the coaching part. Just like we have the 2-3 zone on defense, the coaching staff needs to develop some type of motion offense. I would take Iowa State as and example. There's no movement. There's no passing. All we have are isolation plays with players penetrating to the basket. We ran four plays this year: Cooney, CJ, Grant, and Ennis. I close my eyes and see each doing the exact same offensive play all season. I think the coaching staff needs to rack their heads together and develop a tight and consistent read-react motion offense that changes who takes the shot by how the defense reacts. Watching this year's team play offense was simply painful.

But as you said, if Grant and Ennis stay we will be great. If Ennis stays we will be good. If both Grant and Ennis leave we may be in for a really long difficult season. K-JO2 does not have the same creds as Ennis coming in.

 

[Millhouse]

Try living in Connecticut.

3 to 1 gets thrown in my face all the time.

no shame in not being as good as calhoun.

 

[Dave85]

This is it. I have been a long time follower, but first time poster. This is what kills me. We sit on the recruit board, see top players fly into Syaracuse and play for us from all over the country and have hung one banner. The soon-to-be 1000 wins bring me happiness throughout the regular season, but the flameouts are worse because I spend 6 months with "what if?"

I mean, this trend is consistent. How many of these teams I will list below had more talent than us? I love Boeheim, but we have left ourselves with consistent opportunities for inferior players to make plays. Sorrentine, all the 3s against Dayton, still losing to Baylor without Onuaku. These teams should not have even been in the gym with our talent and athleticism. Not one of our losses were against teams that sped the ball up. Everyone has forced us to sit in the zone and stay in the game, ultimately losing far too often...these stats KILL me.

As someone above also said, "One championship is nice." Well, Pitino has 2, Donovan has 2, CAL-CHEATER-HOUN has 3?!?!?!?! We are on that level and probably above all those programs, but we don't get to feel the championships.

2004 Started 15-1, then lost 5 out of 8. -- LOST SWEET 16 AS A 4 SEED TO ALABAMA (8)
2005 Started 21-2, then lost 3 out of 4. -- LOST FIRST ROUND AS A 4 SEED TO VERMONT (13)
2006 Started 15-2, then lost 5 out of 6. -- LOST FIRST ROUND AS A 5 SEED TO TEXAS A&M (12)
2009 Started 16-1, then lost 5 out of 6. -- LOST AS 3 SEED IN SWEET SIXTEEN
2010 A legitimately excellent team that never had a bad stretch in regular season -- LOST AS 1 SEED IN SWEET 16 TO BUTLER (5)
2011 Started 18-0, then lost 4 straight. -- LOST IN 2ND ROUND AS 3 SEED TO MARQUETTE (11)
2012 A legitimate excellent team that never had a bad stretch. -- LOST IN ELITE 8 AS 2 SEED TO OHIO STATE
2013 Started 20-3, then lost 4 out of 5. -- MADE FINAL 4.
2014 Started 25-0, then lost 5 out of 7. -- LOST IN ROUND OF 32 AS 3 SEED TO DAYTON (11)

I love this school, team and program, but let's use our talent and staff to put us in positions to win in March and April, not November and December

Players get banged up every year. I think JB has to sacrifice some wins to develop his bench players. I think that's what some of these other schools do. Maybe JB is bent on trying to catch coach K for the record of most wins all-time. Hey, when you are head coach you set the tone and the direction of the team. It's good to be king.

 

[Dave85]

no shame in not being as good as calhoun.

Kembla Walker was amazing going from his Junior to Senior year. How did he improve his 3-point shooting percentage by something like 5%. I've never heard or seen that before. He must have been shooting six hours a day all summer.

 

[SmilinBob]

SU is the champion of pre-season tournaments but fades away in the one that counts. I agree with a lot of what Mel03 said and developing the team is the end goal not winning in November and December. I do think that Boeheim is too competitive/proud/stubborn for good and bad and that he won't take that step back to develop and go through the growing pains. That said, he does demand a lot of his players and wants them to work to earn it and I can see that as well. It's just seems to be counter productive at times when certain players can make mistake or mistake while others have a 1 mistake rule. Again, I get it if that player is making the same mistake over and over again and it's driving him nuts.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

he's figured out the easiest way to win 80% of the time. recruit a bunch of guys with ridiculous wingspans and inseams and put them in a 2-3 with hands and arms taking up the whole court.

he's sacrificing something though. ball handling and or shooting. can't have it all.

other teams start with ball handling and shooting, sacrifice some length, and their coaches try to will them into playing strong man to man pressure defense. It's riskier than boeheim's approach. Boeheim knows he's going to have a good defense without having to worry. get players long enough, park them in the right spots, teach them the simple cues for when to swarm.

Would Boeheim recruit McNamara now? He was key to the national championship but would boeheim not like his size in the zone today? The last 4 years were more consistent than GMacs. What's boeheim's goal?

I'm not anxious for a return to Janulis type shooting guards but at least he made the big shot in a sh!tshow tournament game when we needed it

as horrible as cooney's been, it's not just him. other teams have forwards who can dribble the ball

Good post. I said this earlier -- teams figured out our offense, and that's because we don't have multi-dimensional players. Put a guy in Trevor's shorts, hedge every time they set a pick and roll for Ennis (and hedge HARD because the guy who is rolling is not an offensive threat -- and Ennis is only a driver at this stage in his career), give up the jumpers to Grant and Fair and pack it in so they can't drive well.

Because no one on our team does more than one thing well offensively, it was super easy to defend against. These were not world class defenses we were playing against, just teams that saw what they needed to do to shut us down. As for adjusting, how do you adjust when your guys do one thing well, and nothing else? There's no adjustment to be made.

I agree with you, the adjustment needs to be made in recruiting. Our team in 2003 won it all because no one could stop them. In the time since then, every team that has won the NC, not named UConn has been top 4 in Adjusted Offensive Efficiency. Surprisingly, UConn was 9 in 2004, and 18 in 2011, the only team in the past ten years to not have an adjusted offensive efficiency in the top 4.

Yes, the defenses were good as well, but it looks as if an elite offense is the key (along with a serviceable top 25 defense). What we're recruiting on offense is not good enough right now.

 

[Millhouse]

Good post. I said this earlier -- teams figured out our offense, and that's because we don't have multi-dimensional players. Put a guy in Trevor's shorts, hedge every time this set a pick and roll for Ennis (and hedge HARD because the guy who is rolling is not an offensive threat), give up the jumpers to Grant and Fair and pack it in so they can't drive well.

Because no one on our team does more than one thing well offensively, it was super easy to defend against. These were not world class defenses we were playing against, just teams that saw what they needed to do to shut us down. As for adjusting, how do you adjust when your guys do one thing well, and nothing else? There's no adjustment to be made.

I agree with you, the adjustment needs to be made in recruiting. Our team in 2003 won it all because no one could stop them. In the time since then, every team that has won the NC, not named UConn has been top 4 in Adjusted Offensive Efficiency. Surprisingly, UConn was 9 in 2004, and 18 in 2011, the only team in the past ten years to not have an adjusted offensive efficiency in the top 4.

Yes, the defenses were good as well, but it looks as if an elite offense is the key (along with a serviceable top 25 defense). What we're recruiting on offense is not good enough right now.

i think it says something about our defense that it seems so strange to have the strategy of guarding the other teams shooting guard closely

I'm guilty of it too. look at that defense, they have one player follow Cooney wherever he goes! it's like the defense says ok we're going to have this man guard that man instead of guarding an area! it's crazy!

 

[KCJax03]

he's figured out the easiest way to win 80% of the time. recruit a bunch of guys with ridiculous wingspans and inseams and put them in a 2-3 with hands and arms taking up the whole court.

he's sacrificing something though. ball handling and or shooting. can't have it all.

other teams start with ball handling and shooting, sacrifice some length, and their coaches try to will them into playing strong man to man pressure defense. It's riskier than boeheim's approach. Boeheim knows he's going to have a good defense without having to worry. get players long enough, park them in the right spots, teach them the simple cues for when to swarm.

Would Boeheim recruit McNamara now? He was key to the national championship but would boeheim not like his size in the zone today? The last 4 years were more consistent than GMacs. What's boeheim's goal?

I'm not anxious for a return to Janulis type shooting guards but at least he made the big shot in a sh!tshow tournament game when we needed it

as horrible as cooney's been, it's not just him. other teams have forwards who can dribble the ball

What I find the most interesting is that Boehiem brings in the type of long, athletic players that the NBA seems to drool over due to their potential. Every year it seems we fans worry and obsess over who may or not leave early for the NBA. This year two underclassman and potentially a third senior may go somewhere in the draft on a team that struggled to score 50+ points against the likes of BC, GTech and Dayton. I wouldn't mind losing a guy or two early to the NBA every year if the team played like one loaded with NBA prospects.

 

[SmilinBob]

i think it says something about our defense that it seems so strange to have the strategy of guarding the other teams shooting guard closely

I'm guilty of it too. look at that defense, they have one player follow Cooney wherever he goes! it's like the defense says ok we're going to have this man guard that man instead of guarding an area! it's crazy!

Basically a box and 1.