I think there's more to work with on the OL than others | Syracusefan.com

I think there's more to work with on the OL than others

OttoinGrotto

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I think there's a bit of a false alarm on the OL in response to yesterday. Yeah, it's a unit that can improve and some quality portal guys would really help.

I'm just not sure what they were supposed to do yesterday. That game wasn't surprising Pitt and Narducci keeping his safeties 15 yards back because his team hadn't ever practiced a scenario where they'd be in the box all the time. That game meant something to the USF program and they decided they'd go down fighting trying to take away the predictable thing we'd want to do. They scouted it well, and when it was Villari and LeQuint taking the snaps they stuffed the box and played soft outside pass coverage on the sidelines. They made the right moves.

So what's the OL supposed to do when they're badly outnumbered and the defense is flooding everything because they know there's zero risk to not defending the whole field? If people want to say a better offensive line would be able to out tough and out muscle the defense even with the disadvantages we had yesterday... that's asking an awful lot, even if we had 5 NFL guys back there.

Cheer up. Yesterday was a perfect storm and not a referendum on the future. The OL can get better but it's not a complete dumpster fire.
 
I love your optimism. All five of the starters have had good games. The only way that would've worked is if we went with two tight ends and a fullback.
 
I think there's a bit of a false alarm on the OL in response to yesterday. Yeah, it's a unit that can improve and some quality portal guys would really help.

I'm just not sure what they were supposed to do yesterday. That game wasn't surprising Pitt and Narducci keeping his safeties 15 yards back because his team hadn't ever practiced a scenario where they'd be in the box all the time. That game meant something to the USF program and they decided they'd go down fighting trying to take away the predictable thing we'd want to do. They scouted it well, and when it was Villari and LeQuint taking the snaps they stuffed the box and played soft outside pass coverage on the sidelines. They made the right moves.

So what's the OL supposed to do when they're badly outnumbered and the defense is flooding everything because they know there's zero risk to not defending the whole field? If people want to say a better offensive line would be able to out tough and out muscle the defense even with the disadvantages we had yesterday... that's asking an awful lot, even if we had 5 NFL guys back there.

Cheer up. Yesterday was a perfect storm and not a referendum on the future. The OL can get better but it's not a complete dumpster fire.
So Pitt, BC, Ga Tech and Wake couldn’t figure this out and adjust? I don’t believe that. Or maybe USF is that much better than all those teams which I don’t really believe either.
 
So Pitt, BC, Ga Tech and Wake couldn’t figure this out and adjust? I don’t believe that. Or maybe USF is that much better than all those teams which I don’t really believe either.
USF had three weeks of prep and focus on this gimmick offense while our staff was checked out and our OC bailed out a few days before the game.

Effort (lack of) was more concerning
 
I agree the OL has looked good at times and once healthy could be great.
We really do need some quality depth as we've missed that the last few years.
 
So Pitt, BC, Ga Tech and Wake couldn’t figure this out and adjust? I don’t believe that. Or maybe USF is that much better than all those teams which I don’t really believe either.
USF had three weeks of prep and focus on this gimmick offense while our staff was checked out and our OC bailed out a few days before the game.

Effort (lack of) was more concerning
Ok so DP all due respect you're just inaccurate here. We didn't run this offense against BC. That was the game CD-RW started and didn't have the LeQuint/Villari direct snap formations.

Pitt absolutely did not figure it out. We steam rolled them the whole game.

Georgia Tech dealt with the new wrinkle of Villari throwing some short passes, but he completed 14 passes for 59 yards. You want to talk about passing being an extension of the running game, that's it. And I would argue that since they gave up only 22 points and played ahead most of the game, they did stop us.

Wake didn't stop us, but we also had some semblance of a passing offense, and I don't think they were prepared for Shrader to come back from the dead and throw that much, and that successfully.

So, yes, you should believe that USF figured something out that our other opponents didn't, given the time they had to prepare, that the bowl clearly meant something to their team and coach, and the scoreboard.
 
Ok so DP all due respect you're just inaccurate here. We didn't run this offense against BC. That was the game CD-RW started and didn't have the LeQuint/Villari direct snap formations.

Pitt absolutely did not figure it out. We steam rolled them the whole game.

Georgia Tech dealt with the new wrinkle of Villari throwing some short passes, but he completed 14 passes for 59 yards. You want to talk about passing being an extension of the running game, that's it. And I would argue that since they gave up only 22 points and played ahead most of the game, they did stop us.

Wake didn't stop us, but we also had some semblance of a passing offense, and I don't think they were prepared for Shrader to come back from the dead and throw that much, and that successfully.

So, yes, you should believe that USF figured something out that our other opponents didn't, given the time they had to prepare, that the bowl clearly meant something to their team and coach, and the scoreboard.
That’s a fair assessment Otto. There were wrinkles and slightly different circumstances those last 4 games. How quickly you forget something that was only a month ago.
 
That’s a fair assessment Otto. There were wrinkles and slightly different circumstances those last 4 games. How quickly you forget something that was only a month ago.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we have an all world OL or anything. We want that unit to get better. I'm just really hesitant to look at yesterday and declare them dead. They had a really rough assignment and it's difficult to draw conclusions from the game because of it. USF was trying to win too. They were a lot better at it yesterday.
 
I think we have major issues here.

I think our coaching was poor. Hopefully that is now fixed.

I think we have a talent issue. Hopefully we fix that after the Spring.

We lack underclassmen with only 2 FR and 2 RFR on next year's roster. That will cause a numbers problem in 2026 and 2027.

I think Cruz is ok. He is young so he can still grow. Bradford is fine as a backup. So we need to bring someone in. I don't think Reed played well this year. We might need to recruit over him. We lose Bleich so who replaces him? Petry is fine as a backup, assuming he comes back. Based on last night's OL IMO we need 4 new starters. That is a lot.

We do have 4 guys who were out injured and can help in that regard. Wohlabaugh. Is he better as a G or T? Cruz, who right now seems like he is better as a 2nd stringer. Maybe in time. Ellis, I am not very high on him. Not sure he is good enough to be a starter. More, if he is back is he good enough to start?

I only see 2 quality starters. We really need two quality portal guys. Hopefully Fran has some magic left.
 
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we have an all world OL or anything. We want that unit to get better. I'm just really hesitant to look at yesterday and declare them dead. They had a really rough assignment and it's difficult to draw conclusions from the game because of it. USF was trying to win too. They were a lot better at it yesterday.
Film analysis is, by far, the best way to determine what really went on during the game, and, moreover, the season as a whole. This is especially true for OL play. The staff will be well aware of all the factors that influenced this game - and season - and how much of that was exacerbated by the skill/technique/execution of the players.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that your take is off Otto. I don't really know. But, it will be interesting to see how Fran addresses what he thinks we have or don't have on the OL.
 
I agree the OL has looked good at times and once healthy could be great.
We really do need some quality depth as we've missed that the last few years.
Bingo! DEPTH!
 
I think there's a bit of a false alarm on the OL in response to yesterday. Yeah, it's a unit that can improve and some quality portal guys would really help.

I'm just not sure what they were supposed to do yesterday. That game wasn't surprising Pitt and Narducci keeping his safeties 15 yards back because his team hadn't ever practiced a scenario where they'd be in the box all the time. That game meant something to the USF program and they decided they'd go down fighting trying to take away the predictable thing we'd want to do. They scouted it well, and when it was Villari and LeQuint taking the snaps they stuffed the box and played soft outside pass coverage on the sidelines. They made the right moves.

So what's the OL supposed to do when they're badly outnumbered and the defense is flooding everything because they know there's zero risk to not defending the whole field? If people want to say a better offensive line would be able to out tough and out muscle the defense even with the disadvantages we had yesterday... that's asking an awful lot, even if we had 5 NFL guys back there.

Cheer up. Yesterday was a perfect storm and not a referendum on the future. The OL can get better but it's not a complete dumpster fire.
It's like when Philly played SF last year after they lost Brock Purdy. Doesn't matter how many other play makers the 49ers had in their team. When the other team knows you can't pass the ball they'll just stack the box and play downhill.

Now do I think the O-line is great? Absolutely not. However, I think we're closer to being a serviceable unit than many are giving credit for. Especially with a real strength and conditioning program in the office season.
 
Our pass blocking in particular has been poor (to put it mildly) for years. There's a reason virtually all of SU's offensive success has come with mobile quarterbacks; drop back passers get killed behind our OL.
Have to say too that the OL coach coming in is a fairly big downgrade from what people were hoping/expecting.
 
Film analysis is, by far, the best way to determine what really went on during the game, and, moreover, the season as a whole. This is especially true for OL play. The staff will be well aware of all the factors that influenced this game - and season - and how much of that was exacerbated by the skill/technique/execution of the players.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that your take is off Otto. I don't really know. But, it will be interesting to see how Fran addresses what he thinks we have or don't have on the OL.
Fran Brown is used to recruiting a higher caliber of player than we're used to. That's the reality. I'm fully expecting that in the course of upgrading talent across the board he'll level up what we see on the OL.

I do think if OL is treated like a complete ground zero scenario and we try to roll out 5 new guys next season, that'll be less successful than carrying a few starters over and plugging in a new guy or two.
 
Our pass blocking in particular has been poor (to put it mildly) for years. There's a reason virtually all of SU's offensive success has come with mobile quarterbacks; drop back passers get killed behind our OL.
Have to say too that the OL coach coming in is a fairly big downgrade from what people were hoping/expecting.
Can you say more? I don't actually know the ins/outs of this stuff. Coach Williams followed Brohm to Louisville, but went from OL coach at Purdue to an analyst role. I don't actually know what an analyst does - breaks down film for awhile while they wait for another frontline job, or is there some other function I'm not aware of
 
We need to upgrade talent in the OL like we have at other positions. E. Cruz was highly rated but most of the others were 85 or lower. A lot around 80 to 82. I’m not saying ratings are everything but when your entire OL is basically in that range there is going to be problems. We need at least 4 new OL. Preferably all enrolling in January. I expect a couple more after spring.
 
We need to upgrade talent in the OL like we have at other positions. E. Cruz was highly rated but most of the others were 85 or lower. A lot around 80 to 82. I’m not saying ratings are everything but when your entire OL is basically in that range there is going to be problems. We need at least 4 new OL. Preferably all enrolling in January. I expect a couple more after spring.
Why 4?
 
I think Reed, E Cruz and Wohlobaugh are or can be above average linemen.

Petry, Bradford, meh.

It will be really interesting to see who gets shed from the depth chart by Fran. Maybe we have some diamond young guys that haven’t played yet that will emerge, i.e. a Jayden Bass or someone like that. Clearly we’re looking for 1-2 portal guys right now.
 
So Pitt, BC, Ga Tech and Wake couldn’t figure this out and adjust? I don’t believe that. Or maybe USF is that much better than all those teams which I don’t really believe either.
They still had to worry about Schrader passing the ball. They didn’t have that to worry about or even plan for that. That’s something you should believe.
 
Why 4?
E.Cruz is the only known set starter. Reed is the first true center we had in a while but could be a portal addition. Ellis got a lot of playing time but last year but weight is an issue. Petry and Bradford I do not see as answers. Wolhenbaugh could slide in at tackle if he’s healthy. Mack and Bass have size but couple years of more development.
 
Wasn’t More injured most of this year? We might not have seen him at his best this year
 

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