I think there's too much precipice fear here

[GoSU96]

a lot less lame than goofing on autistic kids

you have a crappy memory for your arguments about gerg

and no i don't have links to defunct boards, so go ahead and pat yourself on the back that i can't prove it to you

You have got to be kidding.

What arguments would those be? That he was seriously horrible coach. Absolutely. He cratered the program, he did a horrible job using what he inherited and the handful of decent players that he signed.

He sucked, the roster was in worse shape than when he took over, and it was the worst performing program statistically in D-1 for four years running. Other than Pass defense in 2005, they did absolutely nothing well for multiple years.

He left a program with 3 recruits worth keeping, the best players playing out of position, no institutional knowledge about how to win, no development, poor positional coaching, a ridiculous strength and conditioning approach, a gutted recruiting base, and further degraded infrastructure.

 

[rrlbees]

You have got to be kidding. What arguments would those be? That he was seriously horrible coach. Absolutely. He cratered the program, he did a horrible job using what he inherited and the handful of decent players that he signed. He sucked, the roster was in worse shape than when he took over, and it was the worst performing program statistically in D-1 for four years running. Other than Pass defense in 2005, they did absolutely nothing well for multiple years. He left a program with 3 recruits worth keeping, the best players playing out of position, no institutional knowledge about how to win, no development, poor positional coaching, a ridiculous strength and conditioning approach, a gutted recruiting base, and further degraded infrastructure.

You realize at least half of what you posted is false. Those stats you posted for 2005-2008, how about posting 2002-2004. Better but still horrible except rushing.

 

[GoSU96]

You realize at least half of what you posted is false. Those stats you posted for 2005-2008, how about posting 2002-2004. Better but still horrible except rushing.

Half of what I posted was false? Please point out what I have wrong.

 

[Scooch]

This thread...

 

[OrangePA]

Rutgers became committed with taxpayer money.

Yup.

A distinct advantage over a private school with a relatively small endowment.

 

[OrangePA]

This thread...

Scooch - Above the fray!

 

[OrangePA]

You realize at least half of what you posted is false. Those stats you posted for 2005-2008, how about posting 2002-2004. Better but still horrible except rushing.

And scoring.

Heck, Bees, leaving out rushing is like leaving out the cheese and sauce on Twin Trees Pizza!

 

[rrlbees]

And scoring. Heck, Bees, leaving out rushing is like leaving out the cheese and sauce on Twin Trees Pizza!

Don't mess with my Twin Trees pizza.

Point was it wasn't a bed of roses before Grob. That's why there was a Grob. 16-20 over the 3 years prior. MASSIVE blowouts. Stats in general were horrible and lowly ranked. Yet people want to "get back to before Grob. We already got there and further. I think where we want to get to is pre-2002, not pre-2005. Btw, what did you like about that 2004 23.5 PPG?

 

[Orangepace]

What's mind boggling to me is how cavalierly you make that claim.

I don't think we're going to back slide into GRob-ian dysfunction. We're now in the ACC, we've got the IPF coming, and conference revenues are much better than they were before. On all of those dimensions, we are in a much more advantageous place than we were.

In terms of how "bad" they are, it really depends on what you believe about Shafer. I don't agree with you that Shafer "is doing it again." He looked very solid in year one, and had the majority of proven talent returning in year 2, and we're under performing. Yes, recruiting has been better in the last two classes, but that progress might come to a screeching halt if we start losing again [and who knows what type of impact losing GMcD might have, given that he is the ace recruiter on the staff]. Shafer is a big queston mark--I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise.

If you're inclined to believe that Shafer is the guy, then I guess I can see why you'd be optimisitc. But my confidence in him is lower now than at any point since he was originally hired. And I'm not sure that the University is fully committed to making the investment spend required to compete in big time college football. The foundation is already in place--it's time to build upon that and start winning, not tread water or back slide out of bowl eligibility.

So while we probably aren't going to regress back into the primordial ooze [which I never claimed--the concerns I'm expressing are not about program stability, but on field performance], I am greatly concerned about this staff's ability to win consistently. I also think you're making a lot of assumptions about Shafer's capabilities of getting us to the next level. I'd like to believe that's the case, but what I'm seeing on the field is an unprepared team and an unprepared group on he sidelines.

I apologize for my assertiveness as I must have misunderstood your post. I took it that you were concerned that we were very close to a complete meltdown to that of the GRob era. Again, please accept my apology for being so aggressive.

That said, I don't know if Shafer is the answer, or a successor would be the answer. What I do know is that the cupboard, specifically on offense, was not very full when Shafer took over. There was talent, but there was zero depth and zero quality at the skill positions. Even the OL was relatively thin. I also know that making rash decisions of judgement based on such a small sample size is never a great idea. I'm not inclined to believe Shafer is "definitely" the guy, but I do know that he'll very likely be the head coach of SU through the 2015 season. So why not route for the best?!

SU has a rookie head coach that is defensive oriented and a rookie OC with one full season of calling plays. Again, his call, so I won't go into questioning him. It's his team and he'll reap the rewards/consequences of this action. You did agree with me that the recruiting classes since he took over look to be better than SU has had in years. GMcF***it will undoubtedly leave after this season, or so I expect because it's basically a slap in the face what happened. He'll get paid a nice sum to coach WR's somewhere for a few years before getting another shot at OC down the road. That said, I'm not so worried about losing a ton of recruits just based on that.. With him remaining on staff, the staff will be able to work the relationships he had with "his" recruits and should be able to ascertain quite quickly who will remain committed to SU sans McDonald and who won't.

 

[Millhouse]

It took 11 seasons for Schiano to get to 68 and 67.

yes, it's hard to play 135 games in less than 11 seasons.

he was over 500 by the end of his 6th season.

marrone got to 500 at the end of his 4th. i think schiano inherited even less than marrone did.

 

[GoSU96]

yes, it's hard to play 135 games in less than 11 seasons.

he was over 500 by the end of his 6th season.

marrone got to 500 at the end of his 4th. i think schiano inherited even less than marrone did.

He was 30 - 41 at the end of his 6th season.

2-9, 1-11, 5-7, 4-7, 7-5, 11-2.

 

[Millhouse]

He was 30 - 41 at the end of his 6th season. 2-9, 1-11, 5-7, 4-7, 7-5, 11-2.

Eyeballed it wrong thanks. Excel has made me rusty. added six years of wins and 5 years of games in my head. oops

 

[suloyalfan]

we had the worst coach and team ever and have been ok ever since with 3 bowl victories. every time anything goes a little haywire, we freak out that that this is the pivotal moment

it's really not. a million schools have a million coaching changes and the same programs stay where they are - lots of inertia in college football good and bad.

it's the only good thing we've learned from gerg is to not sweat it so much. if he couldn't destroy the program, we're probably going to be ok now

I couldn't agree more. I have hardly read this forum since the season started because of the negativity. But this week has taken the cake so far.

I ask this... what has happened this season that wasn't predicted by most to start the year? Most predicted wins against Villanova and CMU, losses to Notre Dame and Louisville, and a 50/50 chance against Maryland. Most also predicted that if Hunt were to go down with an injury, that we would be in big trouble. This has now happened (unfortunately), but we don't yet have the results to prove how much trouble we are in. This crescendo of negativity will only grow over the next few weeks after the (likely) losses to Florida State and Clemson (at least). But again, these are games that the vast majority among us predicted as losses. So, I say again, what has changed?

I am frustrated by the losses as well, even though I expected them. I'm frustrated at our performance against Villanova. I'm annoyed by our performance against Maryland. I am disappointed that Eduaord and KJ Williams didn't show up this Fall (at least not yet). I am frustrated that our top 2 recruits that committed this Summer have now decommitted.

But I also realize that this team is no different that most of the others out there, and they just have to keep working to get better. Sometimes seasons get derailed by key injuries (lets see how BYU does without Taysom Hill - their backup came in and was 34% on 29 attempts with 0 TD and 3 interceptions on Friday night), sometimes the breaks don't go your way (see quick whistle on Golson fumble), but the next game is still played the next week-end.

I know that I'll be there on Saturday, watching the game and hoping for a respectable performance against #1 FSU. In all honesty, I expect SU to lose the game but anything is possible. Every game is an opportunity for something special to happen, and that's why I love football and will be watching the games (sometimes in frustration) win or lose.

 

[Millhouse]

I couldn't agree more. I have hardly read this forum since the season started because of the negativity. But this week has taken the cake so far.

I ask this... what has happened this season that wasn't predicted by most to start the year? Most predicted wins against Villanova and CMU, losses to Notre Dame and Louisville, and a 50/50 chance against Maryland. Most also predicted that if Hunt were to go down with an injury, that we would be in big trouble. This has now happened (unfortunately), but we don't yet have the results to prove how much trouble we are in. This crescendo of negativity will only grow over the next few weeks after the (likely) losses to Florida State and Clemson (at least). But again, these are games that the vast majority among us predicted as losses. So, I say again, what has changed?

I am frustrated by the losses as well, even though I expected them. I'm frustrated at our performance against Villanova. I'm annoyed by our performance against Maryland. I am disappointed that Eduaord and KJ Williams didn't show up this Fall (at least not yet). I am frustrated that our top 2 recruits that committed this Summer have now decommitted.

But I also realize that this team is no different that most of the others out there, and they just have to keep working to get better. Sometimes seasons get derailed by key injuries (lets see how BYU does without Taysom Hill - their backup came in and was 34% on 29 attempts with 0 TD and 3 interceptions on Friday night), sometimes the breaks don't go your way (see quick whistle on Golson fumble), but the next game is still played the next week-end.

I know that I'll be there on Saturday, watching the game and hoping for a respectable performance against #1 FSU. In all honesty, I expect SU to lose the game but anything is possible. Every game is an opportunity for something special to happen, and that's why I love football and will be watching the games (sometimes in frustration) win or lose.

i think a lot of the fears have to do with recruiting. which seems a little odd because for the longest time, the story was that it doesn't matter who you have recruiting, without facilities, it's not happening. well, now we're making big strides in facilities. lester might be better, maybe they find someone else who can recruit good enough. it's just not that big a deal to have a bad year. i'm more concerned with Shafer - individual games and mistakes give you some insight into how a coach thinks and that matters in the long haul. so far, i'm not liking it that much. but whatever, if he bombs, we'll get another guy and another guy after that and so on

 

[suloyalfan]

i think a lot of the fears have to do with recruiting. which seems a little odd because for the longest time, the story was that it doesn't matter who you have recruiting, without facilities, it's not happening. well, now we're making big strides in facilities. lester might be better, maybe they find someone else who can recruit good enough. it's just not that big a deal to have a bad year. i'm more concerned with Shafer - individual games and mistakes give you some insight into how a coach thinks and that matters in the long haul. so far, i'm not liking it that much. but whatever, if he bombs, we'll get another guy and another guy after that and so on

Agreed, though I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Shafer. Some of the decisions or lack there of during the game have been troubling. I remember the same concerns with Marrone. Both of them have been better than GROB, but neither of them performed like elite college football head coaches. However, that is understandable considering neither of them had previous head coaching experience at any level.

If Shafer doesn't pan out long term over the next 2-3 years, then for the next coaching hire I desperately hope that we find someone with head coaching experience (at the FBS level preferably, but experienced and successful FCS coaches would be fine too). Skip the coordinator hires and pull a successful HEAD coach from a MAC or AAC school. Given the upgraded facilities, the respectable team, the SU football tradition, the ACC dollars, etc it doesn't seem like it would be THAT hard to convince a coach at Bowling Green, Ohio, or Toledo to take over at Syracuse. I hear Greg Schiano and Charlie Weis are available (ha, I kid, I kid...)...

 

[Millhouse]

Agreed, though I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Shafer. Some of the decisions or lack there of during the game have been troubling. I remember the same concerns with Marrone. Both of them have been better than GROB, but neither of them performed like elite college football head coaches. However, that is understandable considering neither of them had previous head coaching experience at any level.

If Shafer doesn't pan out long term over the next 2-3 years, then for the next coaching hire I desperately hope that we find someone with head coaching experience (at the FBS level preferably, but experienced and successful FCS coaches would be fine too). Skip the coordinator hires and pull a successful HEAD coach from a MAC or AAC school. Given the upgraded facilities, the respectable team, the SU football tradition, the ACC dollars, etc it doesn't seem like it would be THAT hard to convince a coach at Bowling Green, Ohio, or Toledo to take over at Syracuse. I hear Greg Schiano and Charlie Weis are available (ha, I kid, I kid...)...

the flip side of this no big deal stuff is that if a coach sucks, it's not the end of the world to give him enough rope to ... you know

if somehow your team is loaded and you think your coach isn't good enough, that might be reason to make the switch because this is your one big shot

i felt that way many moons ago...

 

[GoSU96]

Eyeballed it wrong thanks. Excel has made me rusty. added six years of wins and 5 years of games in my head. oops

Makes a substantial difference to your whole premises, doesn't it?