I think there's too much precipice fear here

[GoSU96]

sorry. not going to assume that .500 is excellent and that we were lucky to have had such excellence

Yeah, like he picked up a functional program and tweaked it. That's exactly the scope of work he was handed.

He saved this program, whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[OrangePA]

I don't want to return to 2005-08.

What we have seen so far this year brings back bad memories.

Couldn't agree more. I think the freakout has been funny actually - "Oh my! We couldn't score the ball with a mediocre QB vs two top ten defenses!"

We are simply not as good as our expectations for this season. We are much, much better - and still not far off from a 6 win season.

I think it's true that we are light years away from where we were during the Robinson years because we have a stable conference situation, we have improved our football infrastructure and we are receiving far more football revenue than we were.

And, we have a lot more talent top to bottom than we had in 2006 through 2008.

Having said all of that, I question whether we are a six win team this year.

I wonder who we beat at this point? BC? NC State? Pitt?

Five wins looks to be the best case scenario at this point - and that will take some effort.

And I am dumbfounded by what has occurred. I never expected to see what we saw from the very first series against Villanova.

What we have seen from 2012 to 2014 confirms the fine margin for error that exists in major college football.

 

[Rocco]

it's the only good thing we've learned from gerg is to not sweat it so much. if he couldn't destroy the program, we're probably going to be ok now

Please explain your definition of "destroy"...

 

[OrangePA]

marrone isn't herculean. he's barely more than just a guy. we should stop worrying so much

Marrone was outstanding - better than that actually.

The Program misses him a lot.

I wish he were back on the Hill.

 

[Millhouse]

Please explain your definition of "destroy"...

being so bad that it dooms your team for 10 years. is that fair?

 

[Millhouse]

Yeah, like he picked up a functional program and tweaked it. That's exactly the scope of work he was handed.

He saved this program, whether you want to admit it or not.

was schiano a savior? do you think he's great? or was he just decent and followed guys that were really terrible?

 

[CiceroSwamp]

MD is not a top 10 defense.

They are awful...maybe Bottom 10 awful

 

[Rocco]

being so bad that it dooms your team for 10 years. is that fair?

I would say GRob came as close as anyone will to "destroying" the program. The end of the PP era, coupled with the GRob era, ended our run of being a respected program.

Our national perception took a major hit during his tenure. Hell, we even had a feature on GameDay with former players relaying their embarrassment for what we'd become.

We were always in the "Bottom 10" rankings.

It's going to take a long time to earn our reputable name back.

 

[cuseinchina]

Marrone was outstanding - better than that actually.

The Program misses him a lot.

I wish he were back on the Hill.

Marrone saved us then screwed us real hard. Would definitely be better if he had stayed, maybe he would have found someone who could recruit by now. I think a lot of people appreciate what he did, wish he'd stayed, but lost all respect for him when he left in a way that cost us recruits and then took the whole darn staff with him. You could almost see him ransacking the supply closet for staplers and paperclips.

 

[Millhouse]

I would say GRob came as close as anyone will to "destroying" the program. The end of the PP era, coupled with the GRob era, ended our run of being a respected program.

Our national perception took a major hit during his tenure. Hell, we even had a feature on GameDay with former players relaying their embarrassment for what we'd become.

We were always in the "Bottom 10" rankings.

It's going to take a long time to earn our reputable name back.

i think you're too close to it as an SU fan

we sucked for 4 years and then we went back to not sucking. it seemed like forever to us because we had to watch that but it's not that big a deal to the rest of the world. some guy is going to go to Purdue in a year or two, they'll eventually stop sucking so much and he'll be a hero too and no one will remember who coached them when they stunk

i don't have the numbers, i wish i did. would love to plot teams against their own trends and see what happens after extreme coaching outcomes

bill snyder, now that guy was a savior

 

[CiceroSwamp]

was schiano a savior? do you think he's great? or was he just decent and followed guys that were really terrible?

Schiano was pretty good and perfect for Rutgers. He was a strong def coordinator and was able to use defense and special teams to show some progress to fans/recruits and he was a personable/charasmatic guy who was able to take advantage of Rutger's location and elevate recruiting. Syracuse doesnt have a natural recruiting area and must use superior coaching before they can attract high 3star/4 star talent

 

[OrangePA]

Marrone saved us then screwed us real hard. Would definitely be better if he had stayed, maybe he would have found someone who could recruit by now. I think a lot of people appreciate what he did, wish he'd stayed, but lost all respect for him when he left in a way that cost us recruits and then took the whole darn staff with him. You could almost see him ransacking the supply closet for staplers and paperclips.

I'm pretty sure it's been stated on this board that Shafer wanted his own staff - that the manner in which Marrone left was fine with Scott and the AD - that it was coordinated to some degree.

 

[OrangePA]

was schiano a savior? do you think he's great? or was he just decent and followed guys that were really terrible?

Didn't it take Schiano nearly ten years to establish something at Rutgers?

It took Marrone two seasons to get to a bowl game.

 

[TheCusian]

MD is not a top 10 defense.

ND and Ville - besides I was exaggerating. MD's defense is/was a joke.

ND's is good, Ville is the best we've seen this season.

So what have we learned?

1. McDonald didn't live up to our standards - or Coach Shafer's.
2. We're not good enough on offense to beat top 25 D's with McDonald/Hunt.

 

[OrangePA]

i think you're too close to it as an SU fan

we sucked for 4 years and then we went back to not sucking. it seemed like forever to us because we had to watch that but it's not that big a deal to the rest of the world. some guy is going to go to Purdue in a year or two, they'll eventually stop sucking so much and he'll be a hero too and no one will remember who coached them when they stunk

i don't have the numbers, i wish i did. would love to plot teams against their own trends and see what happens after extreme coaching outcomes

bill snyder, now that guy was a savior

Have to agree with one thing you have said - Bill Snyder was/is a savior.

Nobody - nobody - compares to him.

 

[RandygoCuse]

I had to look up the word precipice, but I agree.

Oh, I totally know what it means. But just to be sure you got it right, could you please post the definition you found here?

 

[Millhouse]

Have to agree with one thing you have said - Bill Snyder was/is a savior.

Nobody - nobody - compares to him.

i just don't think there are that many coaches that permanently change the trajectory of a school good or bad. probably more the good way, fewer the bad way.

 

[Full_Rebar]

i just don't think there are that many coaches that permanently change the trajectory of a school good or bad. probably more the good way, fewer the bad way.

Right now many would say Hoke is ruining Michigan, and the same for Muschamp at Florida, but those schools can quickly rebound with the right hire. The way the NCAA is going, if you are in a P5 conference, it's reasonable to think that the right coach could bring a school to a playoff appearance.

 

[Millhouse]

Didn't it take Schiano nearly ten years to establish something at Rutgers?

It took Marrone two seasons to get to a bowl game.

schiano's fifth year

roster was horrendous, way worse than what gerg left

i think if marrone's a savior, so is schiano. rutgers was down for a much longer time before him. but i don't think schiano worked miracles, he was just ok, which looks miraculous in comparison to the bums before him

 

[RF2044]

schiano's fifth year

roster was horrendous, way worse than what gerg left

i think if marrone's a savior, so is schiano. rutgers was down for a much longer time before him. but i don't think schiano worked miracles, he was just ok, which looks miraculous in comparison to the bums before him

I just don't agree with your point. What Schiano did dragging Rutgers out of the muck WAS miraculous. He just never did anything to sustain or improve upon that level of mediocrity. But he deserves credit for taking the worst program ever in college football and making them semi-competitive. He doesn't deserve credit for anything more, because he didn't acccomplish anything more.

The same way that both of those standards apply to Marrone. He deserves a ton of credit for taking over a program that wasa national laughing stock and making us a helluva lot more competitive his first year [compare the PSU game from GRob's last year to the much more competitive game with Marrone at the helm the following year and you'll see the difference]. He then got us to, and won, a bowl in year 2. Pretty freaking amazing.

That he didn't stick around or help the program take the next step is stuff he can be criticized for, but those don't attract from what he accomplished when he was here. Did he make the team "excellent?" No. But he made them a bowl winner. Which after the declining P years and the GRob debacle was miraculous.

 

[Chip]

In terms of what they accomplished, given all the circumstances...

Snyder > Schiano > Marrone

I don't think anyone who disagrees with me is looking at it objectively.

 

[Millhouse]

I just don't agree with your point. What Schiano did dragging Rutgers out of the muck WAS miraculous. He just never did anything to sustain or improve upon that level of mediocrity. But he deserves credit for taking the worst program ever in college football and making them semi-competitive. He doesn't deserve credit for anything more, because he didn't acccomplish anything more.

The same way that both of those standards apply to Marrone. He deserves a ton of credit for taking over a program that wasa national laughing stock and making us a helluva lot more competitive his first year [compare the PSU game from GRob's last year to the much more competitive game with Marrone at the helm the following year and you'll see the difference]. He then got us to, and won, a bowl in year 2. Pretty freaking amazing.

That he didn't stick around or help the program take the next step is stuff he can be criticized for, but those don't attract from what he accomplished when he was here. Did he make the team "excellent?" No. But he made them a bowl winner. Which after the declining P years and the GRob debacle was miraculous.

i agree with giving credit for making a terrible program semi competitive

i don't agree with calling making a terrible program semi competitive miraculous

 

[TheCusian]

In terms of what they accomplished, given all the circumstances...

Snyder > Schiano > Marrone

I don't think anyone who disagrees with me is looking at it objectively.

I think you're giving Schiano and the decades of incompetence at Rutgers too much credit. Making Rutgers mediocre was slightly harder than bringing us back from the brink.

He was a better recruiter than Marrone - but Marrone could game plan circles around that guy.

Snyder is better than both.

 

[RF2044]

i agree with giving credit for making a terrible program semi competitive

i don't agree with calling making a terrible program semi competitive miraculous

Fair enough.

Although I think context and speed of the turnaround back up my position, but agree to dissagree.

 

[RF2044]

In terms of what they accomplished, given all the circumstances...

Snyder > Schiano > Marrone

I don't think anyone who disagrees with me is looking at it objectively.

Schiano took 5 years to make a bowl, in a home state chock full of football recruits.

Marrone did it in 2, without that same home state talent source.