if we beat notre dame

[FRANKIEFAN]

We don’t have any good wins in the nonconference and the ACC is down.
Let’s just get to 17 wins and enjoy the players getting better.
This isn’t an NCAAT team we have flaws. It’s just not a 12-19 team.

Stop 4th in the ACC is up for grabs. We should have 1 league loss at most. Plenty to play for. Plenty of cause for concern. But we only have to go 8-5. Very very doable.

But these out of conference struggles are nothing new all our recent teams have done the same thing because these kids can’t get motivated for a dead rivalry like Georgetown while their scrubs are pumped for the biggest game they’ll every play in their career.

We lose OOC games because JB is too lame to schedule fun non conference home and home games and he thought it was his job to throw ex big East foes a lifeline. UConn was replaced with pedo st and we copped a second loss there where was the AD to stop us losing 2 home games for trash Barclays.

Learn the friggen lesson already.

But yeah no one who follows the team closely should be surprised we sucked out of conference. We’ve done the same thing every recent season.

 

[dasher]

Stop 4th in the ACC is up for grabs. We should have 1 league loss at most. Plenty to play for. Plenty of cause for concern. But we only have to go 8-5. Very very doable.

But these out of conference struggles are nothing new all our recent teams have done the same thing because these kids can’t get motivated for a dead rivalry like Georgetown while their scrubs are pumped for the biggest game they’ll every play in their career.

We lose OOC games because JB is too lame to schedule fun non conference home and home games and he thought it was his job to throw ex big East foes a lifeline. UConn was replaced with pedo st and we copped a second loss there where was the AD to stop us losing 2 home games for trash Barclays.

Learn the friggen lesson already.

But yeah no one who follows the team closely should be surprised we sucked out of conference. We’ve done the same thing every recent season.

didn't we beat G-town twice in a row going in to this year? And the kids get up for the game. To suggest otherwise is silly. They only play 31 of these. . We just weren't very good early in the season.

 

[jncuse]

We don’t have any good wins in the nonconference and the ACC is down.
Let’s just get to 17 wins and enjoy the players getting better.
This isn’t an NCAAT team we have flaws. It’s just not a 12-19 team.

That is just a blanket statement without actually looking where teams are as of now.

We are not that far off the bubble as of now, although not there. If we win at Notre Dame, we will certainly have a few people putting us in.

Xavier is the first team out as of today per the bracket matrix
Virginia is the third team out as of today per the bracket matrix.

I am not going to argue our resume is better than Xavier or Virginia. But if we get another Q1 / Q2 win (Notre Dame is right on the 75 line), an argument can be made against both. Those 2 teams only have one quad one win, we might have 2 or 3 if we beat Notre Dame.

Xavier's only quad one win is a win at TCU.

The fact that we already have 7 losses is not a positive, but it is partially negated by the fact that we do not have a Q3 or worst loss as of now.

If we go further the last team in right now is NC St.
They are 1-2 vs Q1
3-2 vs Q2
1 bad loss.

They have 1 nice OOC win at home vs Wisconsin, but they can't win on the road on conference which is stopping themfrom getting Q1 wins. Again, we are not ahead of them, but IF we beat Notre Dame we are not far off at all.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Stop 4th in the ACC is up for grabs.

True but that may not be enough to get into the dance this conference is so LOL bad.

 

[FloridaFan]

And then win a couple of games. Heads would explode

Like I said in the game thread. Apology Tour 3.0 I can see the article already on the Nunes site and I love it

 

[jncuse]

In 2017 we went 8-1 at home in conference play beat 3 top 10 teams and didn’t get an at-large.
Because our nonconference performance.

Our road record was a much bigger factor than OCC, We didn't get it because we had a historically bad road and neutral court record. Certainly would have helped if we had won one of those type of OOC Games, no doubt.

It came down to us and Kansas St for that final spot (and possibly USC). I remember 2017 well -- it was pretty much an easy field to predict except for the last final spot, with only one team at the end having a legit shot that was going to be left out. Nothing like the chaos of 2019 or 2016.

Kansas St got in before us. Kansas St accomplished nothing out of conference either. And they were just 8-10 in the Big 12 conference -- but what they did was win a number of quality games on the road and neutral courts which put them in over us.

 

[jncuse]

To be clear I am not arguing that we are in if we beat Notre Dame. But we are on the outskirts of the bubble at that point.

The difference is that in the past once you were in "as of now" after January 1, and were an ACC team, you could generally coast .500 the rest of the way and maintain your spot in the tournament.

Won't be able to do the same this year -- have to play better than .500, maybe well above, once you are in, because of the conference gap.

 

[jncuse]

I wouldn’t be so certain. First of all, we absolutely should have gotten into the tourney in 2016-17. We finished 6th in conference. But this season is very different... CBB/the field is much weaker. We’ll see where we finish and if we can knock off one or two of the top teams. Our conference road record in 2017 was also poor. It’s looking good so far this season in conference play. But if we’re gonna have any chance of making the tourney, we’re gonna have to win a lot more games.

Not sure if the bubble will be weaker than normal.

While the top 3 or 4 seed lines will be weaker than normal, this might cause a trickle down effect. If the top teams win less / lose more, than that means the middle of the pack teams in the P5+BE may get a few more wins... and they may have a few more big scalps against top seeds because a few more scalps will exist.

So IMO, the line will either be as good, or a bit stronger. Can't see it being weaker.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

That is just a blanket statement without actually looking where teams are as of now.

We are not that far off the bubble as of now, although not there. If we win at Notre Dame, we will certainly have a few people putting us in.


View attachment 175540

Xavier is the first team out as of today per the bracket matrix
Virginia is the third team out as of today per the bracket matrix.

I am not going to argue our resume is better than Xavier or Virginia. But if we get another Q1 / Q2 win (Notre Dame is right on the 75 line), an argument can be made against both. Those 2 teams only have one quad one win, we might have 2 or 3 if we beat Notre Dame.

Xavier's only quad one win is a win at TCU.

The fact that we already have 7 losses is not a positive, but it is partially negated by the fact that we do not have a Q3 or worst loss as of now.

If we go further the last team in right now is NC St.
They are 1-2 vs Q1
3-2 vs Q2
1 bad loss.

They have 1 nice OOC win at home vs Wisconsin, but they can't win on the road on conference which is stopping themfrom getting Q1 wins. Again, we are not ahead of them, but IF we beat Notre Dame we are not far off at all.

We’ll get a bid over most those teams URI ASU etc.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

True but that may not be enough to get into the dance this conference is so LOL bad.

Why is it LOL bad your being stupid just because it’s been better in the past. Lots of things in life used to be better. Doesn’t mean they suck all of a sudden.

30% of the top 10 are ACC teams and then there’s a bunch of squads beating up on each other keeping them out of the rankings. I’ve got Wake BC on my second TV and the 1-5 team looks better than the 3-3 squad. Wasn’t Wake the consensus worst team this morning?

 

[realorange]

Stop 4th in the ACC is up for grabs. We should have 1 league loss at most. Plenty to play for. Plenty of cause for concern. But we only have to go 8-5. Very very doable.

But these out of conference struggles are nothing new all our recent teams have done the same thing because these kids can’t get motivated for a dead rivalry like Georgetown while their scrubs are pumped for the biggest game they’ll every play in their career.

We lose OOC games because JB is too lame to schedule fun non conference home and home games and he thought it was his job to throw ex big East foes a lifeline. UConn was replaced with pedo st and we copped a second loss there where was the AD to stop us losing 2 home games for trash Barclays.

Learn the friggen lesson already.

But yeah no one who follows the team closely should be surprised we sucked out of conference. We’ve done the same thing every recent season.

Wow. I guess you had a bad day.

The players get up for every game. To say otherwise is simply insulting to them and the coaches.

The OOC games needed to be easier games this year and not starting with Virginia. This is a young team in terms of experience and playing together. Even playing the early OOC games we had scheduled was a bit too much for them.

"Fun" OOC games against strong D1 teams would have been a disaster this year. Next year maybe not.

Try enjoying the team we have. They are working hard to be the best they can be. And guess what? That effort is showing. Too bad you can't appreciate it.

 

[jncuse]

We’ll get a bid over most those teams URI ASU etc.

I was not clear .. Rhode Island and Arizone St are not in the tournament. Not sure if any of that group was tournament teams. But I highlighted the two teams that were amongst the first out to show that we were not that far from the outside of the bubble if we beat Notre Dame.

 

[orange79]

Stop 4th in the ACC is up for grabs. We should have 1 league loss at most. Plenty to play for. Plenty of cause for concern. But we only have to go 8-5. Very very doable.

But these out of conference struggles are nothing new all our recent teams have done the same thing because these kids can’t get motivated for a dead rivalry like Georgetown while their scrubs are pumped for the biggest game they’ll every play in their career.

We lose OOC games because JB is too lame to schedule fun non conference home and home games and he thought it was his job to throw ex big East foes a lifeline. UConn was replaced with pedo st and we copped a second loss there where was the AD to stop us losing 2 home games for trash Barclays.

Learn the friggen lesson already.

But yeah no one who follows the team closely should be surprised we sucked out of conference. We’ve done the same thing every recent season.

A lot of incorrect information in this post.

We didn't "replace" UConn with PSU. The NIT Tipoff chooses the teams. Not JB. Not the SUAD. We wouldn't have even played PSU if we had won the first game.

If these kids can't get up for an OOC game regardless of the opponent, there are bigger issues. It has nothing to do with Georgetown. Nothing.

As dasher said, we just weren't very good earlier this year.

 

[UpstateSM]

That is just a blanket statement without actually looking where teams are as of now.

We are not that far off the bubble as of now, although not there. If we win at Notre Dame, we will certainly have a few people putting us in.


View attachment 175540

Xavier is the first team out as of today per the bracket matrix
Virginia is the third team out as of today per the bracket matrix.

I am not going to argue our resume is better than Xavier or Virginia. But if we get another Q1 / Q2 win (Notre Dame is right on the 75 line), an argument can be made against both. Those 2 teams only have one quad one win, we might have 2 or 3 if we beat Notre Dame.

Xavier's only quad one win is a win at TCU.

The fact that we already have 7 losses is not a positive, but it is partially negated by the fact that we do not have a Q3 or worst loss as of now.

If we go further the last team in right now is NC St.
They are 1-2 vs Q1
3-2 vs Q2
1 bad loss.

They have 1 nice OOC win at home vs Wisconsin, but they can't win on the road on conference which is stopping themfrom getting Q1 wins. Again, we are not ahead of them, but IF we beat Notre Dame we are not far off at all.

What website is that

 

[Wrinkle]

Our non-conference losses to good teams are going to hurt us significantly. We've seen that those games carry considerable weight with the committee. But I think if we somehow manage to get to 12-8 in conference, with at least one win vs Duke/Florida St/Lville, I think we will be in by the skin of our teeth. Achieving that is no small feat though, gonna be tough.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Why is it LOL bad your being stupid just because it’s been better in the past. Lots of things in life used to be better. Doesn’t mean they suck all of a sudden.

30% of the top 10 are ACC teams and then there’s a bunch of squads beating up on each other keeping them out of the rankings. I’ve got Wake BC on my second TV and the 1-5 team looks better than the 3-3 squad. Wasn’t Wake the consensus worst team this morning?

Soorry it’s just “bad,” not “lol bad.”

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Wow. I guess you had a bad day.

The players get up for every game. To say otherwise is simply insulting to them and the coaches.

The OOC games needed to be easier games this year and not starting with Virginia. This is a young team in terms of experience and playing together. Even playing the early OOC games we had scheduled was a bit too much for them.

"Fun" OOC games against strong D1 teams would have been a disaster this year. Next year maybe not.

Try enjoying the team we have. They are working hard to be the best they can be. And guess what? That effort is showing. Too bad you can't appreciate it.

I’ve been supportive.

I just don’t think we’ve been good at OOC scheduling since joining the league every year it’s the same damned thing. We played well when we went to Ohio St probably our only game we weren’t expected to win. Did you see a performance like that any of the uconn or Georgetown games? No they all stunk and were miserable as fans even the wins. (Yukon game in Bahamas was ok but the msg ones were hell on earth to watch and made me super depressed even the Moyer game.)


Even when we try to lighten the schedule like this year we don’t do a good job at it. It’s akin to removing Yukon Or Buttfers fb to play a 1AA instead wanting an easier game but you go and schedule North Dakota St.

 

[jncuse]

Why is it LOL bad your being stupid just because it’s been better in the past. Lots of things in life used to be better. Doesn’t mean they suck all of a sudden.

30% of the top 10 are ACC teams and then there’s a bunch of squads beating up on each other keeping them out of the rankings. I’ve got Wake BC on my second TV and the 1-5 team looks better than the 3-3 squad. Wasn’t Wake the consensus worst team this morning?

The ACC is quite a bit weaker than normal.
It was the 5th best performing conference out of play by most measures, and that basically dictates a lot of things for the middle of conference teams.

Maybe a little simplified for an example, but here goes:

The Big Ten has been great this year. The average team in conference say is #35, entering conference play.
The ACC has been poor this year, and the average team is #70.

There ends up being a multiplier effect. Big Ten teams keep playing "better" teams after January 1st, and it makes everyone better around you. Basically every game becomes either a Q1/Q2 game, and it is hard to get a bad loss.

If your conference did bad out of conference, its the opposite effect. Everybody brings each other down in the numbers, less Q1/Q2 games, more opportunities for a bad loss in conference.

Basically middle of the road ACC teams have it much, much tougher this year. So far Syracuse has managed to get around it by winning road games in conference. That will certainly make up for it, but it is almost certainly a formula that cannot be maintained for a bubble team.

That is why I said before that if an ACC team with 12 games to go was deemed in as of today in a prior season, they could coast to a tourney spot going 6-6 or even 5-7. This year it might have to be 7-5 or even 8-4..

Here is a recent example. Nebraska went 13-5 in the Big Ten in 2018 which was 4th, but they missed the tournament because the Big10 really struggled before January.

This year there will be Big 10 teams at 7-11 that are going to be getting in the tournament, because the conference has had a great out of conference.

 

[Alsacs]

Our nonconference scheduling has been outstanding since joining the ACC.
We just have lost games.
We play 1 Big East school home/home, 1 Big Ten team home/home from the challenge, we play one holiday tournament 4 games, Colgate, Cornell and then 4 more tomato cans.
We don’t over schedule.

 

[jncuse]

Our nonconference scheduling has been outstanding since joining the ACC.
We just have lost games.
We play 1 Big East school home/home, 1 Big Ten team home/home from the challenge, we play one holiday tournament 4 games, Colgate, Cornell and then 4 more tomato cans.
We don’t over schedule.

I agree I think we have got it down right.
Not being able to beat St.John's for a few years, was not a scheduling issue.
And can't even use the "everybody we play is up for Syracuse" argument this year... not that I was ever a fan of it.

 

[blust2i3d4]

Our non-conference losses to good teams are going to hurt us significantly. We've seen that those games carry considerable weight with the committee. But I think if we somehow manage to get to 12-8 in conference, with at least one win vs Duke/Florida St/Lville, I think we will be in by the skin of our teeth. Achieving that is no small feat though, gonna be tough.

Because ACC is in the down year, 12-8 won't cut it. Should be at least 13-7 or even 14-6.

 

[syrBossHogg]

FWIW teamrankings has us at a 12.9% chance to make the field, up from about 7% before yesterday's game. We might need to beat one of Duke/Lville/FSU to get a signature win like last year

 

[Knicks411]

Agree on the scheduling, I think it's been perfectly fine the last few years. You just need to win some games

 

[dasher]

Take a look at the ACC standings. Take a look at the teams that are behind us. Other than UNC, who do you see finishing ahead of us? That puts us in the top 7. Our record isn't good but at the end of the day, we may be right there for at least the bubble. And that ain't bad.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Our nonconference scheduling has been outstanding since joining the ACC.
We just have lost games.
We play 1 Big East school home/home, 1 Big Ten team home/home from the challenge, we play one holiday tournament 4 games, Colgate, Cornell and then 4 more tomato cans.
We don’t over schedule.

I never said we overscheduled. Just that we don’t chose the right teams. We play Georgetown home and home and they have outplayed us every game despite not sniffing an NCAA bid during that time. We should have gone back to Nova as the home and home BE foe given their 2 National titles recently and the opportunity to be the team with nothing to lose. You win it’s excellent you lose it’s a good loss. We do not get that with Georgetown at all.


We have no control over B1G opponent. Given our geographical location playing another might not be a bad idea. We’ve played huge games against their blue bloods over the years.

When was the last tournament we played in that was a destination? Atlantis and Maui were a while ago. We have yet to participate in one of the similar ones. The uconn msg games were terrible and we found something similar but worse this year.

Home games vs small programs have been fine but I clearly wasn’t griping about that part of the OOC schedule.