If we don’t make the tournament next yr, is Red gone?

[orange79]

Losing Maliq is a huge blow. If we lose Judah, there isn’t much left. It’s not like we have our pickings of the top transfers. I realize with NIL, it’s not easy for coaches, but you have to retain key pieces. I would say he should go if another year of no tourney. And this time, a national search would have to take place.

Would Loudonville be considered "national"?




{ducks}

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Only if we have someone like Oats lined up. But a bad year and he might enter lame duck territory with no one expecting things to work out long term. Assuming the new guys aren’t 5th year players with only 1 year of eligibility I’m cool with giving the group we get 2 seasons.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Only if we have someone like Oats lined up. But a bad year and he might enter lame duck territory with no one expecting things to work out long term. Assuming the new guys aren’t 5th year players with only 1 year of eligibility I’m cool with giving the group we get 2 seasons.

SU isn't paying for Oats. Stop. Zero chance.

The AD isn't that loose with money. Next hire will be mid-level HC.

 

[Cuse181]

Stop. Barring a Stallings like job done, he is here for a while. And as far as the off season looking scary, why don't we wait and see who else is going in the portal and who we get before we get scared.

A while? Nah, 3 years with a tournament or you’re gone. This isn’t wake or BC.

 

[two3zone]

Yeah but, this offseason is starting to look scary

It is, but guys are going to leave before we sign anyone else. Brown hurts bad but there is opportunity to fix everything else.

That said, we can’t win with JJ and Bell playing together for heavy minutes.

 

[CLTCuse]

Things are rapidly starting to feel like a disaster and I’m trying not to overreact. But the new nature of college basketball is you can get terrible or very good very quickly depending on how you manage the portal. We now appear to have lost very important pieces (two years in a row). Maybe we bring in great players and get better, but losing your best guys is not a sign of a strong, healthy program.

As a fan it makes it really hard to care very much. I’d like Syracuse to be good next year, but a team full of transfers/one year rental players doesn’t motivate me to make college basketball a priority (ie watching, attending, donating).

Red deserves time to build the team his way, but the reality of the situation is with what we have lost, this offseason may well determine the length of his tenure.

 

[realorange]

Red talks at length about Team and Culture. He's not talking about just grabbing the first big guy or point guard that had a good year this year.

Those types of basic foundation for what he wants to do don't come overnight.

 

[grepal]

its really weird bc if you just look at stats...losing players like brown, judah and quadir really sucks

but none of them really fit with the style of play that is successful and shared by the sweet 16 teams


need a PG

Need a post scorer

need an efficient all around small forward that can shoot

already have a 5 star PF coming in


IF those needs arent addressed in the portal - then yes...it should be Red's time to go

If they are...the team will be better next season despite losing some great individuals

basketball is a team sport...remember...look at UVA

their roster sucks...but they made the tourney and won a bunch of games this season

Basically we need to recruit 8 to 10 guys a year with the portal. We aren't the only ones. Half the players in the S16 were transfers.


.

 

[Cuse181]

Red talks at length about Team and Culture. He's not talking about just grabbing the first big guy or point guard that had a good year this year.

Those types of basic foundation for what he wants to do don't come overnight.

Or even an entire season as we learned

 

[grepal]

Things are rapidly starting to feel like a disaster and I’m trying not to overreact. But the new nature of college basketball is you can get terrible or very good very quickly depending on how you manage the portal. We now appear to have lost very important pieces (two years in a row). Maybe we bring in great players and get better, but losing your best guys is not a sign of a strong, healthy program.

As fan it makes it really hard to care very much. I’d like Syracuse to be good next year, but a team fully of transfers/one year rental players doesn’t motivate me to make college basketball a priority (ie watching, attending, donating).

Red deserves time to build the team his way, but the reality of the situation is with what we have lost, this offseason may well determine the length of his tenure.

There will be so many guys in the portal or declaring, we need to see how things shake out. That being said I think he is the kind of man you build a winner around.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Basically we need to recruit 8 to 10 guys a year with the portal. We aren't the only ones. Half the players in the S16 were transfers.


.

well...thats always plan B...a lot of really good teams manage to keep their good players, though, too

I think in this situation for the Cuse...there are differing opinions on who should stay and go from the fans/coaches and from the players themselves...and its much less obvious than it appears from the outside looking in on which is which

hopefully the coaches have it all under control

in time, we will see how it shakes out

Syracuse is still a desirable landing spot for the vast majority of players so...im not nearly as worried as many appear to be

 

[OrlandoCuse]

We have to get use to 30% player retention each year. The departures accounting for 70% will be replaced with 20% high school recruits and 50% portal.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Red talks at length about Team and Culture. He's not talking about just grabbing the first big guy or point guard that had a good year this year.

Those types of basic foundation for what he wants to do don't come overnight.

I’m pretty sure all 365 D1 teams say the exact same things every year about culture identity team building etc. Same thing with every single employer and workplace.

It is just words and doesn’t mean anything.

 

[grepal]

well...thats always plan B...a lot of really good teams manage to keep their good players, though, too

I think in this situation for the Cuse...there are differing opinions on who should stay and go from the fans/coaches and from the players themselves...and its much less obvious than it appears from the outside looking in on which is which

hopefully the coaches have it all under control

in time, we will see how it shakes out

Syracuse is still a desirable landing spot for the vast majority of players so...im not nearly as worried as many appear to be

The reality of the situation is that fans would be smart not to have favorite players. One thing I see now is how all the good teams have grad students and 5th hr seniors playing key roles. We probably need 2 or 3 of those guys.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Losing Maliq is a huge blow. If we lose Judah, there isn’t much left. It’s not like we have our pickings of the top transfers. I realize with NIL, it’s not easy for coaches, but you have to retain key pieces. I would say he should go if another year of no tourney. And this time, a national search would have to take place.

Took Tony Bennett, Billy Donovan and Danny Hurley 3 years to make the tourney.

Took Jay Wright 4.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Took Tony Bennett, Billy Donovan and Danny Hurley 3 years to make the tourney.

Took Jay Wright 4.

Kevin Ollie won a national championship in his second year.

See how none of this matters?

 

[grepal]

Kevin Ollie won a national championship in his second year.

See how none of this matters?

I think Ollie won in year one in spite of Ollie as it turned out. Let us pray that Red I'd not another Kevin Ollie

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Kevin Ollie won a national championship in his second year.

See how none of this matters?

Not a rebuild. UConn was coming off a national championship when Ollie took over for Calhoun. Completely different situation.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Not a rebuild. UConn was coming off a national championship when Ollie took over for Calhoun. Completely different situation.

Incorrect. UConn was eliminated in the first round of the NCAAT in Calhoun’s last season. They won the NC in Calhoun’s second to last season. They were ineligible for the post season in Ollie’s first year based on bad academic performance. He didn’t take over a program coming off a NC. If anything, he took over a program in a challenging situation due to academic probation.

 

[OCESIP]

We are a top 15 program (at worst). Not just a random power conf team

That just isn't the case. We had a great run in the BE, but that is
ancient history. Recent history tells a much different story.

When you look at what we have to offer in today's world we
have more negatives than positives. The dome might be unique
and a selling point, but only when it's got 25k and rocking the place
like our old fan base used to.

On the other hand, we've had an extended string of mediocre
results, an unproven new coach, a geographic location that
has it's weather issues, a league that considers us an after
thought, and NIL $$ that can't compare to the large state
schools with deep pocket donors.

I will always wish nothing but success for the SU programs,
but reality is it's not a top 15 program by any stretch of the
imagination.

 

[sufandu]

Probably not, but there’s no way on earth that it should take three years to make the NCAA tournament.

You mean like it took Hurley? UConn should've canned him after he missed it his second year.

 

[sufandu]

Incorrect. UConn was eliminated in the first round of the NCAAT in Calhoun’s last season. They won the NC in Calhoun’s second to last season. They were ineligible for the post season in Ollie’s first year based on bad academic performance. He didn’t take over a program coming off a NC. If anything, he took over a program in a challenging situation due to academic probation.

Even so, it was a program with recent relevancy. Even Hurley came in with more recent program relevancy than Red and it took him 3 years to get to the tournament. It happens different for everyone. People need to realize we aren't viewed the way we were a decade ago. Freeman is a great start. Red needs to land more to get us back. The jury will remain out for now.

 

[stlorange]

Depends upon what type of year we have. He gets a third year unless we finish 7-24 or in that neighborhood, in which case the xhit may hit the fan.

 

[pokercuse08]

I don't even know what the right strategy is for a coach these days.

I think the right strategy now is going to be different from the right strategy in a few years. Right now, I would probably advise most good players to either enter the draft or go into the portal every year. It's how you're going to maximize your money.

This should lead to more parity among power conference programs and fewer Cinderella runs from mid majors. This kind of played out this year, with one double digit Sweet 16 team and it was NC State, not a mid major.

Now, the way for a school to be an exception to that guidance for good players to always enter the portal, is to make sure your key players get such a big increase in their NIL bag each year that they don't want to test the portal, while also having a good relationship with them and developing them with a good coaching staff. This probably means overpaying the market rate to prevent them from even testing it - whether that be in guaranteed money or total amount or both. This may annoy your new players, but your reply is just, "We reward loyalty, and if you have a good year and don't test the market next year, you'll be in line to get a big reward like that too." Plus the incoming players will be getting at/above the market value for their services anyway.

All that said, the current dynamic is not good for the sport and it's not the best for the players either. Some sort of collective bargaining and longer commitments or a limit on transfers are needed, more transparency on money earned is beneficial, and IMO they are likely to be the end result because it's in every stakeholder's interest in one way or another. Once that happens, it's going to be more like the old system than the current system. Most guys will transfer zero or one times, and schools will have a little more control over the NIL money whether it's still officially indirect or not.

I would also like to see some sort of cash flowing to programs that lose players in the portal, kind of like the NFL does compensatory picks, so that they can have a fighting chance to build up their funds and keep some of their stars from time to time... But I don't see that happening, because it's not in the interest of the power conferences who have most of the power here.

Looping back to the OP, I'm not sure what the right skillset is for a coach in the current situation is. Have the biggest NIL bags around, be good at the portal, be good at building out contingency plans and executing them when you miss on your main targets, and be good at getting guys to gel and grow as the year goes on. I guess we'll get a good idea of how Red does at that this year.

In the eventual dynamic, I think he's got a pretty good skillset for it, so hopefully the shift towards that happens sooner rather than later.

 

[MSOrange]

Took Tony Bennett, Billy Donovan and Danny Hurley 3 years to make the tourney.

Took Jay Wright 4.

All of those guys had previous track records that showed they could be successful and they also didn't have the advantage of immediate help through the transfer portal while they were building.