If we don’t make the tournament next yr, is Red gone?

[sufandu]

What makes Fran so "unique" as you allege? His previous head coaching record compared to Red's?

Interesting that you mention the word "context" especially as it relates to UConn. This place has been obsessed with UConn for years, not to mention their alleged projected doom by many after being left at the alter. I don't think anyone around here needs much "context" when it comes to UConn, their plight, etc. as most are quite familar.

Additionally, on that "context" again, when Drew took over at Baylor, that program was in complete shambles due to the scandal, but no mention of that in your "5 years for Drew to make the tournament."

I agree that "guys wanna play for winners." Oates had success at UB prior to Alabama, Hurley the same at his stints at Wagner and Rhode Island. Drew, another son of a successful coach, had success, albeit left after just one season, at Valpo.

In regards to these three aforementioned head coaches, I agree folks shouldn't compare Red to them as they all had a degree of prior success at the head coaching level.

If you don't know what makes Fran unique, go to the football board. If you've been to the football board and still don't know, you haven't been paying attention.

Thank you for that other context. It's much appreciated.

 

[NKR1978]

How many would you give any coach without a connection to JB?

3 years. The right coach can turn a team into a top 20 team over night.

 

[orangecuse]

If you don't know what makes Fran unique, go to the football board. If you've been to the football board and still don't know, you haven't been paying attention.

Thank you for that other context. It's much appreciated.

I must not be paying any attention...so I did searches on the football board as to "what makes Fran unique" and failed to get any such returns on same.

You're welcome.

 

[JuiceMeUp]

I must not be paying any attention...so I did searches on the football board as to "what makes Fran unique" and failed to get any such returns on same.

You're welcome.

I think I can help you find an answer. It might be that Syracuse football about 6 months ago was considered by some to be the worst job in the entire country...and now 6 months later Cuse brought in a top 35 class of 2024 to pair with a top 25 transfer class, has the current #8 class in 2025 ranked ahead of Georgia and one spot behind Bama, and has the current #3 (yes #3) overall class of 2026. In 6 months...with no HC experience...with no crazy NIL budget...at one of the worst P5 programs of the last 20 years. Meanwhile Syracuse basketball, a cemented top 10 program of all time, is struggling to even be on the bubble consistently and has had its brand slowly diminished year after year. I wish nothing but success for Red and hope he can be our guy, but if you can't see what's unique here and what isn't idk what to tell you. I feel like Fran is honestly putting a lot of pressure on Red because there really is no reason football should be having that much success and basketball shouldn't at a school like ours, not that pressure is a bad thing. Cuse basketball needs to be back and needs to be back fast.

 

[FrancoPizza]

For any coach to be successful in this era of free agency he needs to be a great salesman and a huge hustler with NIL/fundraising. Any coaching skills, X’s and O’s, take a back seat to being able to rebuild a roster from scratch every year. I doubt this was heavily considered when Red was hired. His portal results 2 years in have been mediocre when we need at least above-average or very good results. We’re not even in contention with other name programs in most cases.

 

[sufandu]

3 years. The right coach can turn a team into a top 20 team over night.

That sounds fair.

 

[sufandu]

I must not be paying any attention...so I did searches on the football board as to "what makes Fran unique" and failed to get any such returns on same.

You're welcome.

You had to search. It's pretty obvious to everyone else.

 

[dasher]

3 years. The right coach can turn a team into a top 20 team over night.

I think 3 years is fair. But the right coach can only turn a team around in year one if he has a boatload of NIL money. X's and O's won't alone do it.

 

[hoopsupstate]

How many NCAA tournaments can we miss before we get to question Red?

I believe Hurley missed three.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I would say if Fran wins less than eight this year you could consider that a failure.

 

[Grbac]

I think 3 years is fair. But the right coach can only turn a team around in year one if he has a boatload of NIL money. X's and O's won't alone do it.

We need to recruit the big dollar donors for our NIL. I could be wrong but doesn’t seem like any are excited to give big money for Red.

"I've talked to a couple basketball coaches and they'd rather have some booster give a million dollars to NIL than have a great recruiter on their staff," said retired Hall of Fame basketball coach Gary Williams, who won a national title at Maryland in 2002. "It's just the way it is now. You need money – guys are going to go where they can make the most money."

 

[dasher]

We need to recruit the big dollar donors for our NIL. I could be wrong but doesn’t seem like any are excited to give big money for Red.

"I've talked to a couple basketball coaches and they'd rather have some booster give a million dollars to NIL than have a great recruiter on their staff," said retired Hall of Fame basketball coach Gary Williams, who won a national title at Maryland in 2002. "It's just the way it is now. You need money – guys are going to go where they can make the most money."

I wouldn't disagree with that.

 

[NKR1978]

I believe Hurley missed three.

just looked it up, he missed his first year. Year two was Covid, and it looks like they were on the bubble. And he’s made the last four.

 

[Cusefan0307]

just looked it up, he missed his first year. Year two was Covid, and it looks like they were on the bubble. And he’s made the last four.

They still picked the tournament and they would not have made it the Covid year.

 

[CU44SE]

If we can't land our #1 targets in the portal consistently because we can't match competing team offers, the problem will not be Red.

Time will tell.

You literally said it, “the problem will not be Red”. The entire point of my post was that NIL money is not the end all to being successful. So if we are not successful, then yes it’s on Red!!!!

We need to stop comparing Red to Fran. We shouldn't compare anyone to Fran. He is unique.

Also comparing us to the 3 teams that are getting transfers without being the highest bidder without context is foolish. Guys wanna play for winners. Those three have been winning for a while now. It's not like they all had instant success. Scott Drew didn't make the tournament until his 5th year. Hurley didn't make it until his 3rd, and UConn had won a NC 5 years before that. If we're going to compare, let's include the context.

why shouldn’t we compare someone to Fran? My point is that NIL is not the only way to get good players. Relationships are huge. Are you saying Red is not able to make the connections or support to drum up additional NIL money or sell recruits on a top 10 program, in the ACC, with top notch facilities and the 1-2 largest attendance every year?

Scott drew had to deal with sanctions that were the worst handed out since the death penalty to SMU. It’s a miracle he made it in even 5 years.

Nate Oates went from UB to a football school with no real history. And they are not paying nearly as much as everyone else. So how is he able to be so successful and get top transfers? He took over a 18-15 team from Avery Johnson, who won exactly 20 games in 1 of his 4 years. Oates took over and went 16-15 and then his second year finished 5th and won SEC at 26-7. Soooo how did that previous success at alabama get players to commit?

I believe UConn lost 8 players from their national championship team. They only got 1 player out of the portal and then proceeded to win a second national championship. So how is this a bad example? They literally used the portal for 1 player and built the rest from recruiting the right people. Their have been articles about they only bright certain people on campus and not the ones only looking for money. Becaue often times those players don’t fit into the team mentality.


Bottom line. What’s the major difference? All these coaches had success at other stops. Instead, Syracuse decided to hire Red. The longest tenured assistant coach during the worst tenure in Syracuse basketball history. He was not a stud recruiter. So I continue to go back to, what asset did Red posses that made him the immediate candidate to replace Jim without an actual national search? He played at Syracuse?

I will give the man a chance. And I didn’t hate everything from last year. But it was pretty clear that his play calling was not spectacular. I personally do not believe Syracuse basketball is a program you hire someone that has no experience. We will see what happens, but last year I thought he left a major hole at the 5 and relied on too many question marks (Benny and bell). Benny situation exploded and Bell started to do some better things towards the end of the year. It’s great to have a shooter. But he needs to at least try in other facets of the game. So far this year, he has lost his best returning player (brown) and not been able to get his biggest need, a PG.

 

[donniesyracuse]

I must not be paying any attention...so I did searches on the football board as to "what makes Fran unique" and failed to get any such returns on same.

You're welcome.

Try searching “FART.”

 

[orangecuse]

I think I can help you find an answer. It might be that Syracuse football about 6 months ago was considered by some to be the worst job in the entire country...and now 6 months later Cuse brought in a top 35 class of 2024 to pair with a top 25 transfer class, has the current #8 class in 2025 ranked ahead of Georgia and one spot behind Bama, and has the current #3 (yes #3) overall class of 2026. In 6 months...with no HC experience...with no crazy NIL budget...at one of the worst P5 programs of the last 20 years. Meanwhile Syracuse basketball, a cemented top 10 program of all time, is struggling to even be on the bubble consistently and has had its brand slowly diminished year after year. I wish nothing but success for Red and hope he can be our guy, but if you can't see what's unique here and what isn't idk what to tell you. I feel like Fran is honestly putting a lot of pressure on Red because there really is no reason football should be having that much success and basketball shouldn't at a school like ours, not that pressure is a bad thing. Cuse basketball needs to be back and needs to be back fast.

Oh.

You're relatively new here, so I guess you haven't been here long enough to be aware of the gospel preached here for years and years. That being, interestingly, how "unique" Syracuse is. Syracuse's less than ideal location, the university can never get a relatively top recruiting class being so far from the talent pool, NYS being a weak state producing D1 level recruits, oh, and don't forget, all, and I mean all of the snow it gets. Not to mention, a university that will never be committed to winning on the gridiron, at least not in the realm of what it takes.

Perhaps, Fran is unique. Or, perhaps, like other folks who never bought into the woe is Syracuse mantra, Syracuse isn't.

It all starts at the top, making the right hires, etc. along with the commitment it takes from the university stewards.

 

[JuiceMeUp]

Oh.

You're relatively new here, so I guess you haven't been here long enough to be aware of the gospel preached here for years and years. That being, interestingly, how "unique" Syracuse is. Syracuse's less than ideal location, the university can never get a relatively top recruiting class being so far from the talent pool, NYS being a weak state producing D1 level recruits, oh, and don't forget, all, and I mean all of the snow it gets. Not to mention, a university that will never be committed to winning on the gridiron, at least not in the realm of what it takes.

Perhaps, Fran is unique. Or, perhaps, like other folks who never bought into the woe is Syracuse mantra, Syracuse isn't.

It all starts at the top, making the right hires, etc. along with the commitment it takes from the university stewards.

I definitely agree on that. My apologies if I took your original post out of context then.

 

[sufandu]

You literally said it, “the problem will not be Red”. The entire point of my post was that NIL money is not the end all to being successful. So if we are not successful, then yes it’s on Red!!!!


why shouldn’t we compare someone to Fran? My point is that NIL is not the only way to get good players. Relationships are huge. Are you saying Red is not able to make the connections or support to drum up additional NIL money or sell recruits on a top 10 program, in the ACC, with top notch facilities and the 1-2 largest attendance every year?

Scott drew had to deal with sanctions that were the worst handed out since the death penalty to SMU. It’s a miracle he made it in even 5 years.

Nate Oates went from UB to a football school with no real history. And they are not paying nearly as much as everyone else. So how is he able to be so successful and get top transfers? He took over a 18-15 team from Avery Johnson, who won exactly 20 games in 1 of his 4 years. Oates took over and went 16-15 and then his second year finished 5th and won SEC at 26-7. Soooo how did that previous success at alabama get players to commit?

I believe UConn lost 8 players from their national championship team. They only got 1 player out of the portal and then proceeded to win a second national championship. So how is this a bad example? They literally used the portal for 1 player and built the rest from recruiting the right people. Their have been articles about they only bright certain people on campus and not the ones only looking for money. Becaue often times those players don’t fit into the team mentality.


Bottom line. What’s the major difference? All these coaches had success at other stops. Instead, Syracuse decided to hire Red. The longest tenured assistant coach during the worst tenure in Syracuse basketball history. He was not a stud recruiter. So I continue to go back to, what asset did Red posses that made him the immediate candidate to replace Jim without an actual national search? He played at Syracuse?

I will give the man a chance. And I didn’t hate everything from last year. But it was pretty clear that his play calling was not spectacular. I personally do not believe Syracuse basketball is a program you hire someone that has no experience. We will see what happens, but last year I thought he left a major hole at the 5 and relied on too many question marks (Benny and bell). Benny situation exploded and Bell started to do some better things towards the end of the year. It’s great to have a shooter. But he needs to at least try in other facets of the game. So far this year, he has lost his best returning player (brown) and not been able to get his biggest need, a PG.

All of those guys are great. The reason it doesn't make sense to compare SU to them specifically with regards to transfers and NIL, the topic being discussed, is that they all were having success prior to NIL and the portal becoming significant and can leverage that prior success. If JB hadn't let things slide like he did, and we hadn't been an annual bubble team for a decade, it would be a better comparison.

If you want to expand the discussion to other topics, as it seems you do, you're right. Those guys had prior success before getting their jobs and have done great at their current stops. We don't know yet if Red is going to be successful, but it's stupid to say he should be canned for not making the tournament in two years, given what he was left. You can criticize his recruiting as an assistant except he was hampered by JB, as has been discussed ad nauseum on here. Insiders were talking about JB getting lazy on the recruiting trail nearly 10 years ago. The head coach has the biggest influence. Kids want to see and talk to him, not just his assistants.

So, if you think making knee jerk decisions is what makes sense, that's cool. You're entitled to that opinion. I agreed with the guy that said three years is a fair length of time to give a new coach.

 

[kingtidge]

You literally said it, “the problem will not be Red”. The entire point of my post was that NIL money is not the end all to being successful. So if we are not successful, then yes it’s on Red!!!!

Here's exactly what I said:

kingtidge said:
If we can't land our #1 targets in the portal consistently because we can't match competing team offers, the problem will not be Red.

Time will tell.

Nowhere did I say NIL is the end-all-be-all to being successful, but if you think it's currently not a MAJOR factor in fostering program success at this point, you are asleep at the wheel.

Again, we'll have to wait and see over the next couple years...

Do we get most of our # 1 or #2 targets consistently or are we forced in to mostly taking tertiary squad-filler players because other programs outbid consistently for who we want??...

There will be a tale-of-the-tape over time to assess.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I would say if Fran wins less than eight this year you could consider that a failure.

Surely you meant 18 not 8. It doesn’t take any coaching skill to get 8 wins.

 

[MSOrange]

Surely you meant 18 not 8. It doesn’t take any coaching skill to get 8 wins.

He was referring to Fran but I'm not sure how that came up.

 

[CU44SE]

Here's exactly what I said:


Nowhere did I say NIL is the end-all-be-all to being successful, but if you think it's currently not a MAJOR factor in fostering program success at this point, you are asleep at the wheel.

Again, we'll have to wait and see over the next couple years...

Do we get most of our # 1 or #2 targets consistently or are we forced in to mostly taking tertiary squad-filler players because other programs outbid consistently for who we want??...

There will be a tale-of-the-tape over time to assess.

You are not making any sense right now. You are caught up on the time will tell remark. That is irrelevant to my issues with your comment.

For the third time, my issue with your comment is that you said if we can’t consistently match offers, than it won’t be Reds fault. THIS IS WHAT I DISAGREE WITH!!!

Red is the head coach. It’s his JOB to figure it out. You think Fran has the biggest bag to offer all these transfers and recruits?

1- recruit the right kids and not only the kids that want the biggest bag.

2- form relationships, and foster growth to get the player to where they ultimately want to be.

3- work the donors and get more NIL funding. Have you seen what Fran has done with networking, dinners, outreach to involve himself with the people who can give towards NIL?

4- win games and show that you are an adequate coach and you need better players. If people believe in the coach and the product they will contribute to NIL. People are not going to throw money away on something they think is a bad investment.

The coach is not absolved from doing their job because they don’t have the same amount of NIL that every team does. Which is why I then brought up the point that the highest payrolls do not typically win championships. If it was all about the money spent, the team that spent the most money every year would win every year.

You don’t just roll the ball out there and throw someone all the money in the world to solve your problems. Listen to what Dan Hurley says. They ignore certain kids because they are all about the money. Chip Kelly just came out the other day and said transfer portal is hard. They are trying to find the right fits and not just the best player who wants the biggest bag. Those kids are not about the team and it causes resentment within the team because your paying an outsider more money then someone that is loyal and here from day 1.

So please don’t tell me I am asleep at the wheel. It’s part of the job and what Red signed up for. Red has to get it figured out because if he doesn’t, it WILL be his fault. It’s his JOB to figure it out. And as you said, time will tell if Red figures it out but that’s not the part of your post I disagreed with.

 

[OmahaCuse]

I couldn’t disagree more. Does money play a small part, sure.

1- Goodman posted the other day of 3 teams continually winning recruits and not being the highest bidder. Baylor, Alabama, Uconn. It’s about the fit and buying into the team.

2- Do you really think we were the highest bidder for every football transfer we got this past year? If we were not how did we manage to get these kids?

You can’t always blame everything on the money. Although important, sometimes it’s about putting kids in the right position, being honest with them, and providing them with the necessary support and tools to further their careers. People claimed teams cheated for years with bags under the table. Hate to tell you, but Kentucky won 1 time since calipari came? And he won 0 times at Memphis?

The team that spends the most doesn’t win the most. Look at the history of any sport. Usually the teams that spend the most money do not win it all. UConn just went back to back and do not have this massive chest of NIL money to disperse. Let’s stop trying to make excuses for why Syracuse or Red may not succeed.

ultimately, if Red doesn’t get the job done it’s on him. Plenty of coaches have been successful without a massive NIL chest to utilize.

100% agree. I think the money plays a small part. Kids still want playing time, X shots, a good fit and coaches they like.

 

[FrancoPizza]

You are not making any sense right now. You are caught up on the time will tell remark. That is irrelevant to my issues with your comment.

For the third time, my issue with your comment is that you said if we can’t consistently match offers, than it won’t be Reds fault. THIS IS WHAT I DISAGREE WITH!!!

Red is the head coach. It’s his JOB to figure it out. You think Fran has the biggest bag to offer all these transfers and recruits?

1- recruit the right kids and not only the kids that want the biggest bag.

2- form relationships, and foster growth to get the player to where they ultimately want to be.

3- work the donors and get more NIL funding. Have you seen what Fran has done with networking, dinners, outreach to involve himself with the people who can give towards NIL?

4- win games and show that you are an adequate coach and you need better players. If people believe in the coach and the product they will contribute to NIL. People are not going to throw money away on something they think is a bad investment.

The coach is not absolved from doing their job because they don’t have the same amount of NIL that every team does. Which is why I then brought up the point that the highest payrolls do not typically win championships. If it was all about the money spent, the team that spent the most money every year would win every year.

You don’t just roll the ball out there and throw someone all the money in the world to solve your problems. Listen to what Dan Hurley says. They ignore certain kids because they are all about the money. Chip Kelly just came out the other day and said transfer portal is hard. They are trying to find the right fits and not just the best player who wants the biggest bag. Those kids are not about the team and it causes resentment within the team because your paying an outsider more money then someone that is loyal and here from day 1.

So please don’t tell me I am asleep at the wheel. It’s part of the job and what Red signed up for. Red has to get it figured out because if he doesn’t, it WILL be his fault. It’s his JOB to figure it out. And as you said, time will tell if Red figures it out but that’s not the part of your post I disagreed with.

I just hope the AD sees it the same way. Can’t have this drag on for 2-3 more years if Red is not able to adapt.