I'll say it

[Cheriehoop]

Just another "I'll say it". I'm surprised no one is discussing and more critical of Coach Babers getting the "band together" again like I heard with Shafer and other coaches. I'm not making any value judgements since I'm a moron in evaluating football coaching but in reading these boards for years, it seemed to be a recurrent theme that people didn't want head coaches to bring in too many former co-workers and friends to coach with them. Some of the same people who were critical, wanted coaches to just bring in the best available assistant not just friends/former co-workers are ecstatic that Coach Babers is bringing in so many of his BG staff.

Is there something different with this situation than the others that so many criticized? Just wondering and hadn't seen it mentioned. As I said I didn't know if the prior complaints were justified any more than the current enthusiasm because I admit I don't know. Is it only a critical point if an assistant coach with prior ties to the head coach doesn't perform to expectations then? Again just a dumb inquiring mind..

 

[NKR1978]

Just another "I'll say it". I'm surprised no one is discussing and more critical of Coach Babers getting the "band together" again like I heard with Shafer and other coaches. I'm not making any value judgements since I'm a moron in evaluating football coaching but in reading these boards for years, it seemed to be a recurrent theme that people didn't want head coaches to bring in too many former co-workers and friends to coach with them. Some of the same people who were critical, wanted coaches to just bring in the best available assistant not just friends/former co-workers are ecstatic that Coach Babers is bringing in so many of his BG staff.

Is there something different with this situation than the others that so many criticized? Just wondering and hadn't seen it mentioned. As I said I didn't know if the prior complaints were justified any more than the current enthusiasm because I admit I don't know. Is it only a critical point if an assistant coach with prior ties to the head coach doesn't perform to expectations then? Again just a dumb inquiring mind..

I think the difference is that Shafer's band largely foundered or moved around nomadically and many did not seem to advance in their careers when they were brought here. With the BG coaches, these guys work together now and are on the same page. It isn't so much getting the band back together as moving the team up a level in competition.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I think the difference is that Shafer's band largely foundered or moved around nomadically and many did not seem to advance in their careers when they were brought here. With the BG coaches, these guys work together now and are on the same page. It isn't so much getting the band back together as moving the team up a level in competition.

So you're saying the issue it's not about the head coach's prior relationship with the assistant or (bringing the band back together etc) as much as re-evaluating whether they are effective after they are here? Thus whether they are long time friends isn't an issue at all? Thanks just sounded like it was for some people when reading these boards previously.

 

[OrangePA]

Never occurred to me.

All I know is that he is an impressive man who excudes confidence and competence.

And that's good enough for me.

 

[Ozcuse]

So you're saying the issue it's not about the head coach's prior relationship with the assistant or (bringing the band back together etc) as much as re-evaluating whether they are effective after they are here? Thus whether they are long time friends isn't an issue at all? Thanks just sounded like it was for some people when reading these boards previously.

I think it's more that they have shown themselves as a unit to be successful on the field as a unit not just that they are buddies and enjoy working together.

There was never any precedent with shafer that his buddies would be successful together.

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

It's actually a good thing that people aren't discussing that- it's a sign of progress that that isn't considered remarkable.

Agreed.IMO,this says the most.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I think it's more that they have shown themselves as a unit to be successful on the field as a unit not just that they are buddies and enjoy working together.

There was never any precedent with shafer that his buddies would be successful together.

I thought they coached together at Western Michigan under Cubit and were pretty successful there. Regardless sure hope it works here with the BG staff.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/index.ssf/2013/01/families_western_michigan_reun.html

 

[supp]

Just another "I'll say it". I'm surprised no one is discussing and more critical of Coach Babers getting the "band together" again like I heard with Shafer and other coaches. I'm not making any value judgements since I'm a moron in evaluating football coaching but in reading these boards for years, it seemed to be a recurrent theme that people didn't want head coaches to bring in too many former co-workers and friends to coach with them. Some of the same people who were critical, wanted coaches to just bring in the best available assistant not just friends/former co-workers are ecstatic that Coach Babers is bringing in so many of his BG staff.

Is there something different with this situation than the others that so many criticized? Just wondering and hadn't seen it mentioned. As I said I didn't know if the prior complaints were justified any more than the current enthusiasm because I admit I don't know. Is it only a critical point if an assistant coach with prior ties to the head coach doesn't perform to expectations then? Again just a dumb inquiring mind..

I think the difference is that w/ Shafer, the personal reasons that were emphasized for the reunion by the coaches in press reports. Here, it's professional reasons. Most of these guys don't go that far back with Babers. He's brought in people that know and can teach his schemes. And when guys have left, he's brought in others and succeeded. It wasn't always clear, though, that Shafer's guys were on the same page scheme-wise. You'll notice that this criticism appeared only once things went south in year two on offense.

 

[Pyle]

Because it wasn't Shafer's band that he put back together. It was Cubit's band and Van Hagar sucks! My point is Shafer put the band back together without the front man, McDonald brought his own lyrics, they didn't make sense, they tried to change the band's sound like 1 year into the reunion and it was a disaster. It was almost as bad as when Journey kept going without Steve Perry. In this case, it's Babers band and he wrote the lyrics.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Dino's band are guys who've been successful in their current positions.

Shafer's band was old buddies bumped up into bigger roles at the highest collegiate level without the same record of success.

Big difference IMO.

 

[SoBristol]

It is a legitimate question, about bringing the BG staff over, rather than just the best guys and trying to upgrade.
For one thing, BG has a bowl game -- Brian Ward is the interim head coach. Are these assistants trying to be in two places at the same time, or did Babers ask them to move over, and not coach the bowl game?

Certainly understand that HC Babers wants his guys on offense, who have helped build his system.

 

[RoatanCuse]

Just another "I'll say it". I'm surprised no one is discussing and more critical of Coach Babers getting the "band together" again like I heard with Shafer and other coaches. I'm not making any value judgements since I'm a moron in evaluating football coaching but in reading these boards for years, it seemed to be a recurrent theme that people didn't want head coaches to bring in too many former co-workers and friends to coach with them. Some of the same people who were critical, wanted coaches to just bring in the best available assistant not just friends/former co-workers are ecstatic that Coach Babers is bringing in so many of his BG staff.

Is there something different with this situation than the others that so many criticized? Just wondering and hadn't seen it mentioned. As I said I didn't know if the prior complaints were justified any more than the current enthusiasm because I admit I don't know. Is it only a critical point if an assistant coach with prior ties to the head coach doesn't perform to expectations then? Again just a dumb inquiring mind..

Like Babers said a few days ago, (paraphrasing) "this offense is so different we're like a cult...and no one breaks in". Now I'm sure this isn't exact, but I think I caught the intent of his statement.

 

[Alsacs]

Just another "I'll say it". I'm surprised no one is discussing and more critical of Coach Babers getting the "band together" again like I heard with Shafer and other coaches. I'm not making any value judgements since I'm a moron in evaluating football coaching but in reading these boards for years, it seemed to be a recurrent theme that people didn't want head coaches to bring in too many former co-workers and friends to coach with them. Some of the same people who were critical, wanted coaches to just bring in the best available assistant not just friends/former co-workers are ecstatic that Coach Babers is bringing in so many of his BG staff.

Is there something different with this situation than the others that so many criticized? Just wondering and hadn't seen it mentioned. As I said I didn't know if the prior complaints were justified any more than the current enthusiasm because I admit I don't know. Is it only a critical point if an assistant coach with prior ties to the head coach doesn't perform to expectations then? Again just a dumb inquiring mind..

Dino Babers band went 18-9 with 2 MAC East division titles and 1 MAC conference title. The band won at Western Illinois.
They have a track record of winning games.

Scott Shafer's band was at Western Michigan. It never won a MAC division title. It won 8 games and finished 2nd. Also it included coaches who never coached their positions prior to coming to Syracuse. SS's band was not successful prior to coming here and it just reeked out SU not giving him a big budget and he filled it up with cheap hires. Acosta and Daoust were great hires. Lester was possibly on the way. The rest weren't good IMO.

I have no problems with Dino Babers coaching staff. He knows how he wants his offense coached and the numbers speak for themselves. Scott Shafer's D never screamed elite they were solid and good enough. If Western Michigan had won MAC titles with Scott Shafer in 2006 the hires would have been a little less scrutinized.

 

[Scooch]

Just another "I'll say it". I'm surprised no one is discussing and more critical of Coach Babers getting the "band together" again like I heard with Shafer and other coaches. I'm not making any value judgements since I'm a moron in evaluating football coaching but in reading these boards for years, it seemed to be a recurrent theme that people didn't want head coaches to bring in too many former co-workers and friends to coach with them. Some of the same people who were critical, wanted coaches to just bring in the best available assistant not just friends/former co-workers are ecstatic that Coach Babers is bringing in so many of his BG staff.

Is there something different with this situation than the others that so many criticized? Just wondering and hadn't seen it mentioned. As I said I didn't know if the prior complaints were justified any more than the current enthusiasm because I admit I don't know. Is it only a critical point if an assistant coach with prior ties to the head coach doesn't perform to expectations then? Again just a dumb inquiring mind..

Like others said, the system that Babers has run at BG was extremely specialized. So I understand why he might have a lot of trust in his staff's ability to get players to excel in this specific system.

Particularly in year one where Babers has said in the past that it takes a full season for things to take hold. I imagine he wants as many coaches as possible on his staff who have taught this system previously.

 

[StanCuse44]

Never occurred to me.

All I know is that he is an impressive man who excuses confidence and competence.

And that's good enough for me.

I liked your post assuming you meant to type "exudes", not "excuses". Haha

Never occurred to me either.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Because it wasn't Shafer's band that he put back together. It was Cubit's band and Van Hagar sucks! My point is Shafer put the band back together without the front man, McDonald brought his own lyrics, they didn't make sense, they tried to change the band's sound like 1 year into the reunion and it was a disaster. It was almost as bad as when Journey kept going without Steve Perry. In this case, it's Babers band and he wrote the lyrics.

What's interesting though to me is that the issues seemed to really center on the offense - not Coach Shafer's background which was on the defensive end. (I do understand that this year there were issues) Conversely, could bringing in the gang from Coach Baber's defense (not his expertise) be the pivotal point, not who he trusts on offense? I guess I share the excitement and trust on the new offensive end considering Coach Baber and his staff's great success however the defensive end (like SS's offense) maybe the question mark regarding coaches? I just hope that we are patient and hope that the enthusiasm doesn't wane because I imagine there will be major adjustments to get the machine rolling in a new location, higher level of competition and new systems taught and implemented. Go SU!

 

[SWC75]

I don't think it matters that both Shafer and Babers came from the MAC. Ben Schwartzwalder came from Muhlenberg. Coach Mac had been the head coach at UMASS- a decade before he came here. Paul Pasqualoni was at Western Connecticut. the other guys hadn't been a head coach at all. Everybody starts somewhere and it's not going to be at the top..

And coaches will tend to hire guys they know, guys they've worked well with. That doesn't mean their bad coaches just getting a free ride. Coaches are always coaching for their jobs. They aren't going to undercut themselves by hiring assistants that they don't think can do the job.

And Babers isn't just a "MAC coach". he's been all over the place. He's taken a system he learned at Baylor and used it successfully at Eastern Illinois and then at Bowling Green. His system is clearly very different that Shafer's, (who never really developed an offensive system, although he was starting to). The fact that they both coached in the MAC is meaningless. I agree that bringing staff with him is a plus. I've always thought our best bet was getting a coach who had a successful system at a lower level who wants to try it at this level and brought his own staff along to implement his system. Now we're doing it.

Really, sometimes it seems as if we seek out things to worry about.

 

[OrangeOnions]

I think Coach Babers covered this today when he was asked if he was bringing all of his coaches from Bowling Green and he said "Only the good ones."

 

[TheCusian]

Dino Babers band went 18-9 with 2 MAC East division titles and 1 MAC conference title. The band won at Western Illinois. They have a track record of winning games. Scott Shafer's band was at Western Michigan. It never won a MAC division title. It won 8 games and finished 2nd. Also it included coaches who never coached their positions prior to coming to Syracuse. SS's band was not successful prior to coming here and it just reeked out SU not giving him a big budget and he filled it up with cheap hires. Acosta and Daoust were great hires. Lester was possibly on the way. The rest weren't good IMO. I have no problems with Dino Babers coaching staff. He knows how he wants his offense coached and the numbers speak for themselves. Scott Shafer's D never screamed elite they were solid and good enough. If Western Michigan had won MAC titles with Scott Shafer in 2006 the hires would have been a little less scrutinized.

Lea and Bullough were fine hires as well.

 

[Alsacs]

Lea and Bullough were fine hires as well.

Your opinion is fair. I would say Lea was good while we was here but left. I didn't think Bullough was good.

 

[KaiserUEO]

you guys cant handle a comedy movie from 40 years ago.

deleted

 

[Millhouse]

Just another "I'll say it". I'm surprised no one is discussing and more critical of Coach Babers getting the "band together" again like I heard with Shafer and other coaches. I'm not making any value judgements since I'm a moron in evaluating football coaching but in reading these boards for years, it seemed to be a recurrent theme that people didn't want head coaches to bring in too many former co-workers and friends to coach with them. Some of the same people who were critical, wanted coaches to just bring in the best available assistant not just friends/former co-workers are ecstatic that Coach Babers is bringing in so many of his BG staff.

Is there something different with this situation than the others that so many criticized? Just wondering and hadn't seen it mentioned. As I said I didn't know if the prior complaints were justified any more than the current enthusiasm because I admit I don't know. Is it only a critical point if an assistant coach with prior ties to the head coach doesn't perform to expectations then? Again just a dumb inquiring mind..

It's not getting the band back together if they were all together a few days ago!

 

[Fjoinkay]

Welcome, coach Babers. I really hope everyone on this board and in the Cuse Nation is supporting you two years from today, and I think they will. That's exciting to think about. Go Cuse!!

 

[OrangePA]

I liked your post assuming you meant to type "exudes", not "excuses". Haha

Never occurred to me either.

Sorry. Corrected!

 

[Cuseregular]

Dino Babers is our first black head football coach. It's actually a good thing that people aren't discussing that- it's a sign of progress that that isn't considered remarkable. But it needs to be noted.

We were one of the schools that advanced the cause of integration back in the 30's, 40's and 50's by using black players like Wilmeth Sidat-Singh, Bernie Custis, Avatus Stone, (all of whom were black quarterbacks), then the three 44's- Jim Brown, the first black Heisman winner, Ernie Davis and Floyd Little. We had John Brown, Art Baker, John Mackey and Jim Nance and others. It wasn't altruistic: the use of black players enabled this mid-size private school in the snow capital of the country to become a national power. One of the reasons we later slipped is that because of that, our rivals started doing the same thing. And it wasn't all smooth sailing, If you read Jim Browns auto-bio and Ernie Davis' bio and read about well the black player's revolt. But those racial conflicts happened here because we had more than once race here - Alabama didn't. (Although 'race' is a poor word: as Edward James Olmos said "We have many cultures but just one race- the human race").

It's about time we had a black head coach. And now that I've said it, I won't be saying it again. Now he's just our football coach and hopefully will have a great career here. Progress is wonderful.

How fantastic would it be to see him lead Syracuse back to prominence and to one day make the football version of the FF and a shot at it all (gotta dream right?!) With this universities history in leading the charge for many african american with what you point out, and then having an african american leading this same university to so many firsts be the first to lead us to that level of success. There would be a certain synergistic symmetry to that.

Love what I see so far, hopefully the success comes to fruition. GREAT GREAT post SWC.