I'm not sure why people are afraid of rebuilding

[rrlbees]

And gerg2.0 didn't inherit the steaming pile of garbage that Marrone stepped into. The notion that he needs or deserves five is just crazy. Shafer walked into a situation with a program that was u in good shape. A middling program that could either continue on a positive trajectory or plummet back into the abyss. We're back in the abyss and Shafer is not the man to get us out of it. But if we cut the chord now it at least won't be a complete rebuild.

Shafer was left with a void of talent at the offensive skill positions then got hit with the injury bug on the OL where we did have some talent.

 

[rocklloyd]

No thanks. I don't trust coaches who wear white dress shirts in the heat and humidity of Miami.

With a tie, no less.

 

[Crusty]

Shafer was left with a void of talent at the offensive skill positions then got hit with the injury bug on the OL where we did have some talent.

I don't think it is fair to call it a void - the only place where the talent was a lot worse was at QB. He was stacked with RBs (and Jerome would have come back if not run off), decent receivers and a strong front line. Shaf decided to hire McD and install an entirely new offense knowing that we did not have the horses to run it. He owns that decision. Now, who knows from here?

 

[CousCuse]

There are 3 great QB prospects right now deciding to come here or not !

 

[Crusty]

There are 3 great QB prospects right now deciding to come here or not !

Typical 3 star guys.

 

[CousCuse]

Typical 3 star guys.

If any big name school sings any of those guys , they will become 4 stars.

 

[CanadianSU]

PJ Fleck. 1-11 year one to 8-3 right now in year two. And he took over a program in a decline with Cubit.

<

He's the guy. We better swoop in before the SEC actually acts. He is 33 as well.

The time is now.

 

[Crusty]

If any big name school sings any of those guys , they will become 4 stars.

Our hopes for a QB in 2015 and 2016 are not looking good.

2015
Eric Dungey isn't coming here.
Air Force, Brigham Young, Brown, Duke, Harvard, Idaho, Montana, Montana State, Navy, Nevada, Northern Colorado, Ohio, Oregon, Oregon State, Syracuse, UC-Davis, UNLV, Washington State, Wyoming, Yale

Chason Virgil will get a zillion offers and he isn't coming here.

2016
Jarrett Guarantano has over 20 offers and he isn't coming here.
Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Arizona State, Auburn, Boston College, Georgia, Illinois, Louisville, Maryland, Michigan State, Mississippi, Nebraska, North Carolina, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse, Tennessee, UCLA, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wisconsin

Dwayne Haskins has over 20 offers and he isn't coming here.
Arizona, Arizona State, Boston College, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Kentucky, LSU, Maryland, Miami (Fl), Michigan, Mississippi State, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, SMU, Syracuse, Temple, Tennessee, Texas A&M, Utah, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, West Virginia, Wisconsin

Sonny Abramson just committed to UVA.

 

[phil77]

Mike Norvell for Head Coach...

 

[rrlbees]

I don't think it is fair to call it a void - the only place where the talent was a lot worse was at QB. He was stacked with RBs (and Jerome would have come back if not run off), decent receivers and a strong front line. Shaf decided to hire McD and install an entirely new offense knowing that we did not have the horses to run it. He owns that decision. Now, who knows from here?

Void might be a bad word but certainly much less than what he had and there was a huge drop off after those stars graduated.

 

[Dr. Bill]

Let me start by saying that I like Shafer and want this to work. That said, I think he's made some bad decisions, and I'm concerned that on offense the band Shafer brought together has a pretty low ceiling. The injuries haven't helped this season, but they can't excuse everything (PUNTERS GOTTA PUNT). Shafer likely has another year to right the ship, and I'd like to see that happen.

I'm not sure why people are so afraid of rebuilding though. If you think our problem is talent, I'm not sure we've seen enough from this staff to suggest that they're going to get us significantly better talent, or coach up in a really meaningful way the talent we have. In fact, we're at a big risk of losing the guy that gives us our best chance to improve the talent in McDonald. If talent is the concern, it's fair to ask if we might expect to do better attracting and developing talent with a different staff, especially with the IPF on the way.

If the talent is there but it's the coaching that is lacking, should we be so concerned about losing coaches that struggle so much to scheme better performance from their team? In fairness to the defense, which I feel was shaky last season, we can rely on our defense this season to be solid against any opponent that isn't Top 10. On the other hand, the offense is a complete mess, and our special teams fail to provide good field position for both the offense and defense. If coaching is the concern, it's fair to ask if we might expect to do better with a different staff, depending on the experience they bring to the table.

If you think the problem is conditional, ie our program is not attractive enough to attract a good coach, our program is unwilling to pay for a competent staff, we have a schedule that's too difficult, that we have a geographical disadvantage that's too difficult to overcome, or that the program can't afford another prolonged rebuilding period, the only answer to any of these problems is to come up with an innovative solution and exploit some type of inefficiency other like football programs haven't figured out. If that's what we're left with, I'm not so sure we've seen a whole lot of innovation out of this staff. In fact, I worry that they mistake getting cutesy with creativity, and outsmart themselves more often than not. If a lack of innovative solutions is our problem, I think it's fair to ask if a new staff might provide some fresh ideas.

In short, this season is a bust. The best course of action is to keep recruiting, get the returning players going strong in S&C, hope the staff has learned some lessons taking their lumps this season, and look for reasons for optimism next season. I expect that we'll know pretty early in the 2015 season if things are going in the right direction or if they're not. I'll be looking to see if we're making the smartest decisions whenever we have choices, regardless of any other circumstances. If we do, in my eyes it's not too late for this staff to be successful. If we don't, we're rebuilding anyway, so we might as well rebuild with people that can bring something different to the table.

College sports isn't like professional sports - there's no free agency (well, kinda) or lottery you look to when you need to improve. You get better through some combination of resources, smarts, and taking advantage of what you have that others don't, whatever that might be. It's on the coaches to provide the latter two on that list. If this staff can't, we can find one that can. They are out there. They would like to be here, they would take our money, and they would try different things to see if they work.

Great post! When I look at this staff, I do not see a lot of innovators, nor do I see a bunch of great recruiters. McDonald is our best recruiter and we have risked losing him because of what went down with the demotion. In my opinion, the recruiting is getting better. The defense is good enough scheme wise to win with. The problem with this team is the offense. Shafer, as a defensive coach, really needed an innovative offensive coordinator with a proven record of success. Someone like that, costs big money, and we don't have that. What is the alternative? To do some research, pound the bushes and find a young, up and coming OC from a smaller program or an Offensive quality control type coach from the NFL, looking for an opportunity to run their own show. Risky, of course, but you have to take a chance on talent. Look at Chip Kelly! He was coaching at New Hampshire of all places…New Hampshire…before Oregon hired him. They recognized his talent. Look how fast he made things happen. There are other Chip Kelly's out there. Shafer made the decision to surround himself with his coaching buddies. His job is on the line. Will these "friends" serve him well? Only time will tell.

 

[Dr. Bill]

Case in point, Nc state is getting ready to dump Doreen because they expect better.

Who says HC State is about to dump Doreen? I live in NC, have not herd that..not eve a wiser…

 

[Dr. Bill]

Fire the Coach! Really, we have to ask ourselves is 3 years enough to build a winner? Not when you look at what he inherited. There should be some benchmarks that speak to improvement. He should get at least 4 years to be fair to him and his program. this year was a setback, but injuries played a huge part in our record. Next year, let's see what happens. If I was Shafer, I would have taken the off season to search for an experienced OC, tweak, change the system, work in the off season to install this new offense and look to make an impact next season. I do not know why he has so much confidence in Lester. He hired McDonald, a friend and someone he worked with. Look how fast he pulled the plug on him. If you believe in someone…..or something, you don't give up on it so fast! He could have kept Mcdonald as OC for the remainder of the season, had Lester call the plays, and made a decision after the season. The way Shafer handled that situation is one of the worse examples of how "not to lead" that I have seen in a while.

 

[Dr. Bill]

Head coach Scott Shafer is not the problem by himself. Running a football team is very much like running a business. As the CEO, you need to be able to manage the entire process and that starts with having a good staff. I don not think the composition of his staff is serving him well. He tells the story of how when all of these guys were working together as assistant coaches that they all made a pact that whoever got the first head coaching job, would call the others with job offers. That's all well and good around a table and a few beers, but the reality is that it may not be what's best for your program.

As a defensive minded coach, the Offensive Coordinator position was a critical hire and Shafer went with a friend, with little experience as an OC and play caller. After less than two seasons, he pulls the plug on the guy! Contrast the offensive staff and experience with the defensive staff: Defensive Coordinator: Solid, strong background including the NFL, defensive line coach: a defensive coordinator in waiting, Linebackers coach: great teacher recognized as a good recruiter.

Shafer could be successful as a head coach. He will need to make significant changes on the offensive side of the ball for that to happen. He has put his future in the hands of Lester. Let's see what he does in the off season and next year. Acosta was a good hire. Even though he was not from a big time program, he has coaching experience with tight ends and offense in general, as well as extensive recruiting experience in a key area: New Jersey.

It is too early to throw in the towel on Shafer. Give him a chance to prove himself, I don't think two seasons is enough to really get an accurate handle on what kind of coach he can be.

 

[Dr. Bill]

Our hopes for a QB in 2015 and 2016 are not looking good.

2015
Eric Dungey isn't coming here.
Air Force, Brigham Young, Brown, Duke, Harvard, Idaho, Montana, Montana State, Navy, Nevada, Northern Colorado, Ohio, Oregon, Oregon State, Syracuse, UC-Davis, UNLV, Washington State, Wyoming, Yale

Chason Virgil will get a zillion offers and he isn't coming here.

2016
Jarrett Guarantano has over 20 offers and he isn't coming here.
Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Arizona State, Auburn, Boston College, Georgia, Illinois, Louisville, Maryland, Michigan State, Mississippi, Nebraska, North Carolina, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse, Tennessee, UCLA, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wisconsin

Dwayne Haskins has over 20 offers and he isn't coming here.
Arizona, Arizona State, Boston College, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Kentucky, LSU, Maryland, Miami (Fl), Michigan, Mississippi State, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, SMU, Syracuse, Temple, Tennessee, Texas A&M, Utah, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, West Virginia, Wisconsin

Sonny Abramson just committed to UVA.

UVA is a great school. Their football program has struggled the last few years and isn't much better than ours. They have a great campus, better weather, and their academics is on par with the Ivies! Great choice Sonny! Syracuse could be the choice for a talent like Sonny, but the picture that we are presenting right now in terms of an offensive system is not attractive. Syracuse better come up with an offensive game plan that they can sell to talented offensive recruits. We are all waiting!!

 

[Chris02M]

Nobody is afraid. Just nobody has faith with this guy leading a rebuilding process.

Plus next year you have 4 losses you can pencil in right now. Meaning he has to win 6 of 8 games to go to a bowl. Not gonna happen. When the bar is set at just 6 wins and you can't come close to meeting that level of expectation...that's bad! Real bad!

Scott Must Go!

we could upset a team or 2 but we will likely be underdogs in those 4 games

 

[Chris02M]

Our hopes for a QB in 2015 and 2016 are not looking good.

2015
Eric Dungey isn't coming here.
Air Force, Brigham Young, Brown, Duke, Harvard, Idaho, Montana, Montana State, Navy, Nevada, Northern Colorado, Ohio, Oregon, Oregon State, Syracuse, UC-Davis, UNLV, Washington State, Wyoming, Yale

Chason Virgil will get a zillion offers and he isn't coming here.

2016
Jarrett Guarantano has over 20 offers and he isn't coming here.
Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Arizona State, Auburn, Boston College, Georgia, Illinois, Louisville, Maryland, Michigan State, Mississippi, Nebraska, North Carolina, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse, Tennessee, UCLA, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wisconsin

Dwayne Haskins has over 20 offers and he isn't coming here.
Arizona, Arizona State, Boston College, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Kentucky, LSU, Maryland, Miami (Fl), Michigan, Mississippi State, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, SMU, Syracuse, Temple, Tennessee, Texas A&M, Utah, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, West Virginia, Wisconsin

Sonny Abramson just committed to UVA.

dungey is actually looking very good based on another board. Virgil could as well sinbce this late in the game most teams are set at qb for this recruiting class. Also have another guy in the mix for 2015 Hale from Florida even though he is a 2 star from florida though so really a 3 star

 

[Crusty]

Void might be a bad word but certainly much less than what he had and there was a huge drop off after those stars graduated.

I agree that there was a drop off, but other than QB, I don't think it was that huge. West. Lewis and Ishmael have been pretty good receivers.



Our drop off from 2012 to 2013 was mostly in passing. The rushing stats were actually better in 2013 than they were in 2012
2013 Rushing attempts|Yards|TD 554|2539|25
2012 Rushing attempts|Yards|TD 555|2431|21

As you can see the passing stats were not than different. Ryan completed
62% with an average of 4.38 yards per attempt and Allen\Hunt completed 59.7% with an average of 4.58 yards per attempt. The big difference was the TD to interception ratio which dropped from 26-10 to 17-13.
2013 Passing attempts|Yards|Int|TD 405|242|17|13
2012 Passing attempts|Yards|Int|TD 474|296|10|26

At that point it was reasonable to conclude that with improvement by Hunt we were in business. Other than QB, the talent was pretty much the same - at least by the numbers.

This year has been a complete collapse in the offense. While 2014 is not over, I took the stats through 11 games and extrapolated them for 12 games.
We will have run a whopping 122 fewer rushing plays and 36 fewer passing plays. Obviously, we could not sustain drives and our AB's were turnover machines.

2014 (11 games) Rushing attempts|Yards|TD 396|1680|11
2014 (est 12 games) Rushing attempts|Yards|TD 432|1833|12
2014 (11 games) Passing attempts|Yards|Int|TD 363|199|15|6
2014 (est 12 games) Passing attempts|Yards|Int|TD 396|217|16|7

These stats represent a complete collapse. It is getting hard to hang it all on on injuries.

 

[Crusty]

dungey is actually looking very good based on another board. Virgil could as well sinbce this late in the game most teams are set at qb for this recruiting class. Also have another guy in the mix for 2015 Hale from Florida even though he is a 2 star from florida though so really a 3 star

A 2 star is a 2 star.

Who says HC State is about to dump Doreen? I live in NC, have not herd that..not eve a wiser…

I have but I don't think there is anything to it.

 

[rocklloyd]

Who says HC State is about to dump Doreen? I live in NC, have not herd that..not eve a wiser…

I entertained some high roller Nc state fans for the game in SYR. Boosters apparently want him gone.

 

[boog7]

I do not know why he has so much confidence in Lester. He hired McDonald, a friend and someone he worked with. Look how fast he pulled the plug on him. If you believe in someone…..or something, you don't give up on it so fast! He could have kept Mcdonald as OC for the remainder of the season, had Lester call the plays, and made a decision after the season. The way Shafer handled that situation is one of the worse examples of how "not to lead" that I have seen in a while.

Couldn't agree more. Total mismanagement. When you combine his staff mismanagement with his game-day mismanagement, you have a formula for losing. The guy is in over his head. Time to move on.

 

[TheCusian]

Just want to be on record as a Shafer guy. I think we turn it around and have a good season next year.

 

[rosconey]

a head coach's first duty is to hire the best available assistants -not your pals-here he seriously failed -

nothing wrong with hiring a big time recruiter if the rest of your staff is good and can help cover his deficiencies at coaching -another fail

you never put your worst coach in charge of offense-another fail
you dont replace the worst with the second worst by just a hair -another failure

you dont hire a oline coach with zero experience coaching olines -another failure

like the great groober hcss can talk the talk but is a cripple when it comes time to walk the walk-

 

[Willy75]

Shafer was left with a void of talent at the offensive skill positions then got hit with the injury bug on the OL where we did have some talent.

That's crazy. We were/are deeper at both wr and running back than we have been in years.

 

[nzm136]

Let me start by saying that I like Shafer and want this to work. That said, I think he's made some bad decisions, and I'm concerned that on offense the band Shafer brought together has a pretty low ceiling.

I was very much in this camp, but then I thought about it for a while, and I can't really blame him. HCDM left at the last minute and took everyone with him. With those two facts in mind, i can't blame him for his initial hires. All the good coordinators were spoken for by the time HCSS got the job, and SU's budget was low. Other than his friends, who was he supposed to hire? Who would have taken the job? After last year, who could we have axed. These were guys who left their last job at the last minute to come to Syracuse to coach under their friend, and they were successful enough to compete in a power conference and win a bowl against a decent team. What kind of message would HCSS have sent if he canned them after last season? It would have been very bad one, and it probably would have barred him from having any chance of hiring a quality coach moving forward. Who wants to work for a guy who 1. canned an assistant the year after the assistant did him a huge solid (i.e. leaving his previous job on short notice) and 2. canned an assistant the off season after his team won a bowl (this is especially true for a friend)? I can't blame him for keeping those guys around for this season.

For me, next season is on DG and HCSS. DG either needs to put HCSS in a position where he can surround himself with top tier talent, and HCSS needs to take advantage of it and deliver clear progress and build a very obvious and very solid foundation. If DG can't put HCSS in a position to succeed, then DG is not the right man for the job. If HCSS doesn't bring in top tier talent, and/or can't manage top tier talent, he needs to go.