I'm surprised there's no thread on Judah's outburst

[djcon57]

JJ, as sought after as he was, has not brought more to this team than Girard would have had he stayed. That is my point exactly. The grass is not always greener.

Can we for sure find someone in the portal who can pick up where Judah left off or improve upon what he did? It is a tall order. And one I would like to avoid if possible. Best replacement we could find for Jesse was McLeod.

JJ is on a team with more wins in 1 year than Joe had in 4 chances, but ok.

Folks are seeing Joe's "success" at Clemson and thinking he would have done that here. If we had the shooters they have with PJ Hall, I'd agree, we don't.

What I do know for a fact is that we saw at Joe and Judah backcourt last year and it resulted in a 17-15 record. The grass was greener as we have a better record. Saying otherwise is purely hypothetical.

 

[Cusefan0307]

JJ, as sought after as he was, has not brought more to this team than Girard would have had he stayed. That is my point exactly. The grass is not always greener.

Can we for sure find someone in the portal who can pick up where Judah left off or improve upon what he did? It is a tall order. And one I would like to avoid if possible. Best replacement we could find for Jesse was McLeod.

We are going in circles. Judah won’t be here. Choose to be surprised if it happens, but you shouldn’t be. I am confident in Red building a good team and no comparison to JB era missteps will change my mind. He’s already got us involved with better talent than we’ve been involved with in at least 5 years.

 

[br801]

I was thinking something similar when I saw Cope's reaction. The other thing I thought about was look at all the guys on the bench. They're watching Judah spout off to coach. They're watching. That's how attitudes and bad behavior spreads on a team. In one isolated moment, no biggie. However with Judah, Bell (and when Benny was here), that has happened way too often.

Lots of assumptions there.

 

[DoctahLexus]

JJ is on a team with more wins in 1 year than Joe had in 4 chances, but ok.

Folks are seeing Joe's "success" at Clemson and thinking he would have done that here. If we had the shooters they have with PJ Hall, I'd agree, we don't.

What I do know for a fact is that we saw at Joe and Judah backcourt last year and it resulted in a 17-15 record. The grass was greener as we have a better record. Saying otherwise is purely hypothetical.

I think we are better for reasons other than JJ replacing Girard. Would maybe feel differently if JJ was not the worst defender on the team. Saying we improved our record this year because JJ replaced Girard would also be a hypothetical.

 

[DoctahLexus]

We are going in circles. Judah won’t be here. Choose to be surprised if it happens, but you shouldn’t be. I am confident in Red building a good team and no comparison to JB era missteps will change my mind. He’s already got us involved with better talent than we’ve been involved with in at least 5 years.

I won't be surprised if it happens. I just don't want us to show him the door unless his mind is made up on going to the league. I do not want our most talented player to leave if we can help it.

 

[RF2044]

That’s fair. I thought the thread title was strange, that you were “surprised” those 15 seconds weren’t being discussed.

I’ll certainly take you at your word that there was nothing behind it, but it also was clearly going to lead to the usual pile on of Mintz and Autry.

Look, I think this team is very immature. And the T was silly. It also struck me that Judah was hot with Red because he thought he was doing what AG and Mac were telling him to do, and then Red started yelling at him.

That it led to 9 pages of “kick Mintz outta the programz!” By some folks is regrettable.

I guess I don't understand why you categorize it as "strange."

If anything, the incident itself was bizarre -- if for no other reason than Judah's seemingly heated exchange with his head coach, in the middle of the game / on the court / on national TV [even setting the eventual "T" result aside].

Why would it be "dumb" to discuss such an unusual in-game situation?

 

[DoctorBombay]

No ref should take any guff from any player. Ours or theirs. That is the coaches job.

Exactly.
3 words: Be like Maliq!

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

JJ, as sought after as he was, has not brought more to this team than Girard would have had he stayed. That is my point exactly. The grass is not always greener.

Can we for sure find someone in the portal who can pick up where Judah left off or improve upon what he did? It is a tall order. And one I would like to avoid if possible. Best replacement we could find for Jesse was McLeod.

If JJ just plays average D and is the improvement from Joe in that regard we are taking seeding right now. Sadly he’s far and away the biggest liability on that end.

If he starts the next 2 seasons we’re pretty much guaranteed to be a bubble team or worse. Not to mention we probably lose Cope like we did Kadary bc another school is going to offer him the keys.

 

[djcon57]

I think we are better for reasons other than JJ replacing Girard. Would maybe feel differently if JJ was not the worst defender on the team. Saying we improved our record this year because JJ replaced Girard would also be a hypothetical.

I didnt say we improved because of JJ, I said, FACT, we have a better record with JJ than we did in 4 years of Joe. I'll let you handle the hypotheticals.

 

[orangecuse]

I guess I don't understand why you categorize it as "strange."

If anything, the incident itself was bizarre -- if for no other reason than Judah's seemingly heated exchange with his head coach, in the middle of the game / on the court / on national TV [even setting the eventual "T" result aside].

Why would it be "dumb" to discuss such an unusual in-game situation?

 

[AZOrange]

Does anyone really think he will be back next season? I give it a 10% chance at best. I mean honestly

Not a chance

 

[djcon57]

Does anyone really think he will be back next season? I give it a 10% chance at best. I mean honestly

Before the season, I think we all would have said if he was coming back, this season would be a disaster. I really don't get the hand wringing over this. It's been a fun season, but I think we all want to be back with the big boys, right? Judah's not gonna get us there.

 

[721Comstock]

JJ, as sought after as he was, has not brought more to this team than Girard would have had he stayed. That is my point exactly. The grass is not always greener.

Can we for sure find someone in the portal who can pick up where Judah left off or improve upon what he did? It is a tall order. And one I would like to avoid if possible. Best replacement we could find for Jesse was McLeod.

JJ absolutely brought 1 thing that JGIII could not - 3 years of eligibility.

Also, a cleaner slate.
Joe had 4 years of doing things the JAB way.

Even if you wanna say that Joe was a net-loss vs JJ for Cuse this one season;
let's see how the next 1-2 play out for JJ, before making the final determination.

 

[DoctahLexus]

I think we all want to be back with the big boys, right? Judah's not gonna get us there.

I will drop it as it is going nowhere, but stuff like this just boggles my mind. How do we say it is our best player that is not taking us there rather than the roster as a whole? How is the guy second in scoring in the ACC the reason we are not getting there? Feel like I am on a different planet right now. You "get there" by building a stronger depth of talent, not showing your best players the door and replacing them with portal adds that may or may not be better. I agree with you and everyone else I am getting into it with on like 95% of things. Will drop it now.

 

[djcon57]

I will drop it as it is going nowhere, but stuff like this just boggles my mind. How do we say it is our best player that is not taking us there rather than the roster as a whole? How is the guy second in scoring in the ACC the reason we are not getting there? Feel like I am on a different planet right now. You "get there" by building a stronger depth of talent, not showing your best players the door and replacing them with portal adds that may or may not be better. I agree with you and everyone else I am getting into it with on like 95% of things. Will drop it now.

Will bookmark and remind you next year assuming we get some valid replacements. It's not a 1-1 replacement. Correct, we are building a roster.

 

[kingtidge]

Yup- I cringe at some of the exchanges we've seen between Red and some of the players. Specifically, Bell, Judah, Cope, and Benny when he was active. Either they're yapping at the refs, opposing players, or their HC.
I learned to accept that this new breed of player can be prone to interact more publicly w/ a HC- the days of Bob Knight are long gone. But it's still jarring and embarrassing to watch. JMHO

I think a lot of this is part of the transition for Red as "good cop" as an assistant coach with the players to "bad cop" and the HC and disciplinarian (as others have stated.)

FWIW, I think Bell has made real strides from the start of the season and appears much more positive and coachable when he comes out (and his play has obviously improved with his attitude.)

Cope I think is just a trash talker much like Devo was... Generally, it's annoying to the other team but mostly benign... on occasion, it's a problem. I think he and Red have a good rapport, however, and I think he knows where the lines are...

Judah is a whiner and we saw on Saturday that he maybe doesn't care where the lines are. There is no way to sugarcoat that. He needs to shut his piehole A LOT more. Period. If the refs have indeed had enough of his jawwing, he may be in for a rude awakening...

 

[Cuse181]

JJ is on a team with more wins in 1 year than Joe had in 4 chances, but ok.

Folks are seeing Joe's "success" at Clemson and thinking he would have done that here. If we had the shooters they have with PJ Hall, I'd agree, we don't.

What I do know for a fact is that we saw at Joe and Judah backcourt last year and it resulted in a 17-15 record. The grass was greener as we have a better record. Saying otherwise is purely hypothetical.

i don’t think you could’ve found a more irrelevant point… neither Joe nor JJ are the singular deciding factor in the performance of either of team. As far as defensive and offensive performances of those individuals go, Joe is better offensively by a good margin and slightly worse defensively.

As for his success at Clemson, he also had success here, it’s not debatable that his shooting prowess and ability to to get to his spot would’ve been valuable to this team, just like it had been in the past.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Before the season, I think we all would have said if he was coming back, this season would be a disaster. I really don't get the hand wringing over this. It's been a fun season, but I think we all want to be back with the big boys, right? Judah's not gonna get us there.

In a quick review, we've had only 4 1st team all-conference players since joining the ACC (Fair, Christmas, Hughes and Buddy). If you add in the 2nd team I think we have another 3 players (Ennis, Battle, Gbinige). That's 7 players total over the course of 11 years. I would wager Judah Mintz will be on one of those teams this season and fans want to run him out of town. What is going on?

Of course, he has some flaws but the argument that our team would be better without him are unbelievable, especially from those that say they know basketball and have been a consistent watcher of our team (especially over the last 5 year).

Can he be a better PG/distributor of the ball? Yes. Can he play better defense at times? Yes. Can he be annoying to watch at times as he talks to the refs throughout the game? Yes. Should he stop falling down so much on dribble drives? Maybe (It leads to alot of calls but also leads to odd man breaks when there is no call). Would our team have been better this year without him? No.

Just really confused as to the basketball analysis and my best guess is fans just don't like him due to his strong personality and that blinds them to the objective reality that he is either the best or a top 2 player on this roster this season. Further, I see no reason, absent injury, why he wouldn't continue to improve through next season and be even better.

Money, NIL budget, etc. aside as I don't think anyone has any real information there and judging from a purely basketball standpoint, I cannot buy the argument we should let him walk without a fight as more than a few have suggested on these boards as of late.

 

[two3zone]

Do you think that he would be considered an upper level athlete at the nba combine?

I do not.

All good if we just disagree.

I can’t tell you how many games where Judah wasn’t the most athletic guard on the court, but it’s well more than a handful.

 

[djcon57]

In a quick review, we've had only 4 1st team all-conference players since joining the ACC (Fair, Christmas, Hughes and Buddy). If you add in the 2nd team I think we have another 3 players (Ennis, Battle, Gbinige). That's 7 players total over the course of 11 years. I would wager Judah Mintz will be on one of those teams this season and fans want to run him out of town. What is going on?

Of course, he has some flaws but the argument that our team would be better without him are unbelievable, especially from those that say they know basketball and have been a consistent watcher of our team (especially over the last 5 year).

Can he be a better PG/distributor of the ball? Yes. Can he play better defense at times? Yes. Can he be annoying to watch at times as he talks to the refs throughout the game? Yes. Should he stop falling down so much on dribble drives? Maybe (It leads to alot of calls but also leads to odd man breaks when there is no call). Would our team have been better this year without him? No.

Just really confused as to the basketball analysis and my best guess is fans just don't like him due to his strong personality and that blinds them to the objective reality that he is either the best or a top 2 player on this roster this season. Further, I see no reason, absent injury, why he wouldn't continue to improve through next season and be even better.

Money, NIL budget, etc. aside as I don't think anyone has any real information there and judging from a purely basketball standpoint, I cannot buy the argument we should let him walk without a fight as more than a few have suggested on these boards as of late.

You are wrong in my case.

He's easily a top 2 player for our team. He's also the reason we are barely on the bubble this year both positively and negatively.

My case in him not coming back is pretty easy. He went through NBA Draft, was told specifically what he needed to improve at, and proceeded to do the opposite or not improve at all.

3 pt percent and eFG% is almost the exact same, WORST Ast% and TO%, lower BPM

He's played very similar to last year. I simply don't see him changing his game and, imo, his game (as he currently plays) has a ceiling.

 

[orange79]

I don’t know if the agenda is anti-Judah or anti-Autry,

 

[dollarbill44]

Weird?! It was embarrassing. Embarrassing for him. Embarrassing for Red.

In the era of Bobby Knights, Gene Hackmans, and Jim Boeheims, he would’ve been benched for the rest of the game and maybe for the next couple of games.

Gene Hackman? You realize "Hoosiers" wasn't a documentary, right?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Gene Hackman? You realize "Hoosiers" wasn't a documentary, right?

It was inspired by the true story of Bob Knight and nobody will convince me otherwise. Too many parallels.

 

[kingtidge]

Gene Hackman? You realize "Hoosiers" wasn't a documentary, right?

I'm still pissed we didn't even try to recruit "Cool" Coolidge from Carver High / The White Shadow.

Dude was a massive center prospect.

 

[MikeSU02]

I can’t tell you how many games where Judah wasn’t the most athletic guard on the court, but it’s well more than a handful.

I actually didn’t think my take on him not being an elite athlete was controversial. If he was an elite athlete, he’d be in the NBA.

He’s not. And not only that, his other attributes like dribbling and vision aren’t elite either.

He’s a very talented college player. No doubt. And he should be rewarded with an all conference nod. But we’re not talking a guy that’s putting us as a lock for a top four NCAAT seed.

Again, I said he should have tried to model his game after Jeff Teague. That was supposed to be a compliment. But Judah isn’t close to Jeff Teague. Jeff Teague made a jump between frosh and soph year and then had an heckuva nba career.

Givony had Judah as the 18th best PG prospect. He has him last pick of the 2025 draft now and that is tenuous at best.

Judah would 100% be gone to the nba if he was an elite athlete.