IN SHAFER I TRUST

[money3189]

Building the program progressively is the way to go. We cant rely on getting a big name coach. Its not going to happen. If we get lucky and get a young talented coach who has success he will leave for a better (higher paying) gig in a heartbeat. We need consistency and continuity. Shafer can give us that because he is devoted to the city of Syracuse. A new coach is gonna need his own players and system. Its gonna take another 3 years to let the new guy make his mark. I dont think we can afford that. Marrone didnt set the program up to compete for a ACC title and Im not saying its his fault. We are still in the process of building a ACC ready program. 2013 team caught some teams off guard. We were not a program who was ACC ready. We had veteran Big East talent players. We were able to win some tight games with some veteran players like Jerome Smith, Spruill, Bromley, PTG, Hickey and West. What if we lost to Wake Forest, NC state and BC that year? We would have been a 3 win team. Those could have been losses but we had veteran players who made plays when we needed them. This years team lacks that and has trouble finishing games. We could easliy be 5-2 with a young team. We are recruiting better players now. It takes 3 years to see them develop. We have a young team who is playing hard and are in position to win games. Thats all we can ask for. I would be concerned for Shafer if I didnt see the effort from the players, but I do, so we are gonna be fine. Just like everyone else I want the team to win now but next year is the true test. I think people are over analyizing things.

 

[orangepassion]

I like Shafer, but I think the players playing hard thing is a bit overstated (and I'm not picking on you, I've seen that a lot). They are playing hard, but so is everyone else-This is D-1 Football. See Jim Boeheim rant from last year.

 

[jekelish]

Yep. People don't seem to fully grasp that, with a VERY few exceptions, it takes a few years to get the ball rolling. Justin Fuente, the dude from Memphis everyone wants? He went 7-17 in his first two years...in Conference USA. Larry Fedora was nearly fired, and now UNC is 6-1 and a serious contender in the ACC. David Cutcliffe's first four years? 4-8, 5-7, 3-9, 3-9.

It doesn't just magically happen overnight at MOST places.

 

[money3189]

Yep. People don't seem to fully grasp that, with a VERY few exceptions, it takes a few years to get the ball rolling. Justin Fuente, the dude from Memphis everyone wants? He went 7-17 in his first two years...in Conference USA. Larry Fedora was nearly fired, and now UNC is 6-1 and a serious contender in the ACC. David Cutcliffe's first four years? 4-8, 5-7, 3-9, 3-9.

It doesn't just magically happen overnight at MOST places.

Anyone who truely knows football can understand.

 

[money3189]

I like Shafer, but I think the players playing hard thing is a bit overstated (and I'm not picking on you, I've seen that a lot). They are playing hard, but so is everyone else-This is D-1 Football. See Jim Boeheim rant from last year.

I can name a ton of teams who are not playing with effort and thats including teams who are winning. Miami is one of them. Effort says alot. Dont underestimate the significance of that. I know you are frustrated. I am too. Im just not sure what others are seeing, Shafer is not the cause of them losing the last two games. I see lots of mistakes by young players. They would be 5-2 if it wasnt for those mistakes. Really could be 6-1 if things went different in S Florida.

 

[djorange1989]

I can name a ton of teams who are not playing with effort and thats including teams who are winning. Miami is one of them. Effort says alot. Dont underestimate the significance of that. I know you are frustrated. I am too. Im just not sure what others are seeing, Shafer is not the cause of them losing the last two games. I see lots of mistakes by young players. They would be 5-2 if it wasnt for those mistakes. Really could be 6-1 if things went different in S Florida.

Agree completely. I don't think folks are taking into account the difficulty of very young players playing a full 60 minutes without being gassed. They are still developing physically, which is what redshirtimg is all about. Our star QB and star RB are true frosh, along with a bunch of other true and RS frosh. We haven't been able to get the D off the field in two straight losses at the end. That will change as these kids develop physically and mentally. I see a ton of young talent out there, which is exciting. It hurts like hell to be 3-4 and likely out of a bowl. However, these kids are proving they can compete they just need to learn to close out close games. Shafer deserves another year and I believe he will get it

 

[orangeinjersey]

Yep. People don't seem to fully grasp that, with a VERY few exceptions, it takes a few years to get the ball rolling. Justin Fuente, the dude from Memphis everyone wants? He went 7-17 in his first two years...in Conference USA. Larry Fedora was nearly fired, and now UNC is 6-1 and a serious contender in the ACC. David Cutcliffe's first four years? 4-8, 5-7, 3-9, 3-9.

It doesn't just magically happen overnight at MOST places.

Duke was coming off 6-45 Ted Roof regime before Cutliffe was hired
Memphis was coming off 3-21 with Porter
which is NOT the same as coming off 25-25 with an 8 win season and Bowl win over Geno Smith West Virginia...

quotes from when he was hired...

As we continue to strengthen the program, his outstanding abilities, developed over 20 years of coaching, make him the right leader to build on Syracuse Football's strong momentum in the years ahead. We congratulate Dr. Daryl Gross who undertook a swift, intensive search process that identified the right candidate – while ensuring stability, continuity, and quality in our football program."/QUOTE]

 

[RICuse44]

Duke was coming off 6-45 Ted Roof regime before Cutliffe was hired
Memphis was coming off 3-21 with Porter
which is NOT the same as coming off 25-25 with an 8 win season and Bowl win over Geno Smith West Virginia...

quotes from when he was hired...

Look at the players we had at the time and the product on the field. To my eyes we have defensive and offensive systems/identity. I have seen progress through this year, especially on the defensive end. We will be good next year. Very good.

 

[donniesyracuse]

If we get lucky and get a young talented coach who has success he will leave for a better (higher paying) gig in a heartbeat.

I am totally okay with a guy that leaves the program in better shape. I'm not saying Shafer should go though.

 

[orangecuse]

Duke was coming off 6-45 Ted Roof regime before Cutliffe was hired
Memphis was coming off 3-21 with Porter
which is NOT the same as coming off 25-25 with an 8 win season and Bowl win over Geno Smith West Virginia...

quotes from when he was hired...

Bingo! It's interesting that when these similar comparisons have been made (in other threads too) it's conveniently overlooked. And, how HCSS was an inside hire vs. an outside hire, and whom had been embedded in the program for 4 years prior to taking the hc gig.

 

[Full_Rebar]

For all these examples, can someone explain to me what Syracuse was rebuilding from when Shafer took over? A bowl game, a new league with more money, better facilities, no NCAA penalties in terms of scholarships.

I'm fine with being patient, but you need to tell me how taking steps backwards is a good thing.

Pitt has had a number of coaches and yet that lack of continuity hasn't kept them from bowl games, or finding good coaches. They lost two guys to better P5 jobs and are already bowl-eligible after losing their best offensive player.

 

[jekelish]

For all these examples, can someone explain to me what Syracuse was rebuilding from when Shafer took over? A bowl game, a new league with more money, better facilities, no NCAA penalties in terms of scholarships.

I'm fine with being patient, but you need to tell me how taking steps backwards is a good thing.

Pitt has had a number of coaches and yet that lack of continuity hasn't kept them from bowl games, or finding good coaches. They lost two guys to better P5 jobs and are already bowl-eligible after losing their best offensive player.

He had to almost completely rebuild the offense. We lost record setters at QB and WR and there wasn't much behind them, just for starters. The offensive cupboard was very, very bare, and the OC went with Marrone. I think that Shafer and the staff have done a very good job replenishing the offensive cupboard (offensive line struggles aside).

 

[alphaorange]

Duke was coming off 6-45 Ted Roof regime before Cutliffe was hired
Memphis was coming off 3-21 with Porter
which is NOT the same as coming off 25-25 with an 8 win season and Bowl win over Geno Smith West Virginia...

quotes from when he was hired...

Single most important position on the team? QB, hands down. What did HCSS start with? Not the QB that Marrone ended with. That QB is backing up Eli in NY. The O line was bad, the QB situation was worse, and without those there is no scoring and without scoring there is no winning, and with no winning and not great facilities, there is no recruiting. I think HCSS has done a pretty good job considering all he was working against. Now we have the IPF, a coach that guys will run through walls for, and we are starting to form an identity. I'm solidly on board for a couple more years unless the trajectory suddenly changes. That being said, he can get better and I think he will, and I think we could use a new assistant or two. IMO.

 

[orangecuse]

For all these examples, can someone explain to me what Syracuse was rebuilding from when Shafer took over? A bowl game, a new league with more money, better facilities, no NCAA penalties in terms of scholarships.

I'm fine with being patient, but you need to tell me how taking steps backwards is a good thing.

Pitt has had a number of coaches and yet that lack of continuity hasn't kept them from bowl games, or finding good coaches. They lost two guys to better P5 jobs and are already bowl-eligible after losing their best offensive player.

I'm a bit baffled by that as well. Marrone's the one who did the rebuild. SS took over a program that was back on its feet again and to temporarily maintain the status quo (smooth transition) before raising it.

 

[Full_Rebar]

He had to almost completely rebuild the offense. We lost record setters at QB and WR and there wasn't much behind them, just for starters. The offensive cupboard was very, very bare, and the OC went with Marrone. I think that Shafer and the staff have done a very good job replenishing the offensive cupboard (offensive line struggles aside).

Again, bare as in Smith, PTG, West, Hickey, and the struggling OL now are all in their 4th year in the program. Who hand-picked the next OC and QB? Like I said, when is Shafer accountable for the current situation?

 

[jekelish]

Again, bare as in Smith, PTG, West, Hickey, and the struggling OL now are all in their 4th year in the program. Who hand-picked the next OC and QB? Like I said, when is Shafer accountable for the current situation?

He took a former 4-star QB from Oklahoma. Who WOULDN'T have done that? And it was late, because the QB that we had actually recruited (Zach Allen) bailed when Marrone left. So what the heck could he do at that point? We lost the most prolific passer in our history, and two WRs who combined for more than 1800 yards, and our OC left and most of the staff bailed with Marrone. The vast majority of our passing game was absolutely decimated by graduation.

And look what's happening now: the OC mistake aside - and that was clearly a bad hire, there's no question - and now Shafer has been able to recruit his own offensive skill position guys and they're emerging as potential stars. Dungey, Fredericks, Ishmael, Philips, Strickland - all Shafer guys. The guys continuing to struggle are all the Marrone guys, like McFarlane and Morris.

 

[orangecuse]

Single most important position on the team? QB, hands down. What did HCSS start with? Not the QB that Marrone ended with. That QB is backing up Eli in NY. The O line was bad, the QB situation was worse, and without those there is no scoring and without scoring there is no winning, and with no winning and not great facilities, there is no recruiting. I think HCSS has done a pretty good job considering all he was working against. Now we have the IPF, a coach that guys will run through walls for, and we are starting to form an identity. I'm solidly on board for a couple more years unless the trajectory suddenly changes. That being said, he can get better and I think he will, and I think we could use a new assistant or two. IMO.

Certainly those points are valid, to a degree. Ultimately, it's the HC's responsibility for getting the recruits, etc. in place. The IPF is in place as you mentioned, and he has had time to pitch that for a while in his recruiting sometime prior to its completion date as well as the other improvements. He has been in the system for 7 years. What trajectory? Isn't SS's winning percentage under .500% and isn't that what ultimately matters? I'm not suggesting his departure, and I'm all for stability, etc, I just see (objectively) the results and the results on the field have been coming up on the short end of the stick more times than not.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Year 3 and if this program isn't better than 4-8, I see no reason to keep blaming Marrone leaving for the struggle.

Who has been coaching the Marrone guys the last 3 years? Which coach decides to put McFarlane and Morris in the games? Again, this stuff is no longer on Doug Marrone, it's all on Scott Shafer.

 

[jekelish]

Year 3 and if this program isn't better than 4-8, I see no reason to keep blaming Marrone leaving for the struggle.

Who has been coaching the Marrone guys the last 3 years? Which coach decides to put McFarlane and Morris in the games? Again, this stuff is no longer on Doug Marrone, it's all on Scott Shafer.

Have you noticed that as soon as Shafer had his own guys, they leapfrogged the Marrone guys? Who the heck was he supposed to play last year? The only 3 RBs he had were PTG, McFarlane, and Morris. Even then, Philips clearly looked like the most talented player who got carries, and hey - he's a Shafer guy.

 

[orangecuse]

Have you noticed that as soon as Shafer had his own guys, they leapfrogged the Marrone guys? Who the heck was he supposed to play last year? The only 3 RBs he had were PTG, McFarlane, and Morris. Even then, Philips clearly looked like the most talented player who got carries, and hey - he's a Shafer guy.

So SS is doing less with more talent? On the field that is based on winning percentage? Just playing devils advocate per the objective numbers. :noidea:

 

[Full_Rebar]

What I've noticed is that Shafer's guys have 6 wins in the last year and a half. He didn't get handed a rebuilding program and he needs to win games. If you want to keep waiting on recruits to get here in 2017, that's your choice. I'm saying that this staff and program needs to win before this year ends.

 

[jekelish]

So SS is doing less with more? On the field that is based on winning percentage?

On offense he's clearly doing more with his own guys. Defense is obviously a different story, which I'm not sure who couldn't have expected after losing 8 starters from last year and playing mostly FR and SOs on that side of the ball.

 

[orangecuse]

On offense he's clearly doing more with his own guys. Defense is obviously a different story, which I'm not sure who couldn't have expected after losing 8 starters from last year and playing mostly FR and SOs on that side of the ball.

Diplomatically, how's he doing more? It's not as if we are scoring a ton of points, or racking up crazy yardage numbers. Yesterday, we failed in the Red Zone coming up with field goals instead of TD's.

 

[jekelish]

Diplomatically, how's he doing more? It's not as if we are scoring a ton of points, or racking up crazy yardage numbers. Yesterday, we failed in the Red Zone coming up with field goals instead of TD's.

Have you actually watched our offense this year? How on earth can you possibly look at the offense this year and not see a WILD improvement over last year?

 

[TheCusian]

Duke was coming off 6-45 Ted Roof regime before Cutliffe was hired Memphis was coming off 3-21 with Porter which is NOT the same as coming off 25-25 with an 8 win season and Bowl win over Geno Smith West Virginia... quotes from when he was hired...

Marrone took the offensive momentum with him. We got better on D in 2013-2014.