Inside Syracuse’s rough off-season: How portal misses and a lack of NIL money led to a lost year

[Cusefan0307]

Anyone think Donnie is highly likely to be poached?

There's only been 5000 posts about this. Some "fans" are ready to drive him to his next school.

 

[Scooch]

If we get in as a 10 seed playing in the first 4 with an 11-9 or so ACC record it really wouldn't be any different from the end of the JB era. I know you're not an SU football fan, but it would feel an awful lot what the football program went through with Dino. Doing JUST ENOUGH to hang on at the end. In year 3 I expected to be competing somewhere in the top 4 or 5 of the ACC standings. That's where we need to be.

I understand your perspective. But in this scenario we'd have improved our win total by... 12? 14? It's not where we want the program to ultimately be, but it'd be an actual sign of tangible progress.

However, if we then didn't make the tourney in year 4 he'd need to be terminated.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I understand your perspective. But in this scenario we'd have improved our win total by... 12? 14? It's not where we want the program to ultimately be, but it'd be an actual sign of tangible progress.

However, if we then didn't make the tourney in year 4 he'd need to be terminated.

It would be like Dino going 7-6 making the pinstripe bowl in 2022. Everyone would know he is a dead man walking immediately the following year. He wouldn't just have to make the tournament. There would HAVE to be improvement. The entire goal of the coaching change was to be better than the end of JB. We have been by far worse.

 

[Eric15]

It would be like Dino going 7-6 making the pinstripe bowl in 2022. Everyone would know he is a dead man walking immediately the following year. He wouldn't just have to make the tournament. There would HAVE to be improvement. The entire goal of the coaching change was to be better than the end of JB. We have been by far worse.

I think it would depend on what happens the following season, in 2027.

If we have this nightmare season in 2025 but then make the tourney in 2026, that’s a very good sign. But then 2027 would tell us if 2025 or 2026 was the aberration.

 

[richmondcuse03]

They didn't know who was going to be available? Just about everyone is available.
You think the big SEC schools are waiting to see? It's called back channel communications and it goes on long before the end of the season. What is going to be so different for Cuse this time? Hopefully Kline has targets already mapped out. But how much additional $ will the staff actually have. My guess is not that much --- unless Melo is kicking in a million or two.

He does. And has a lot lined up. Like you said, if you're doing your job, you know who will be available via back channels. Our football program does, and Fran knew before he even took the job here. It was clearly a failure by Red last year.

I've been told the budget has been substantially increased. And Alex is on point for the portal. There are no excuses if we're not a tourney team next year.

 

[pwong]

Anyone think Donnie is highly likely to be poached?

Donnie seems like a test the nba / portal as backup candidate.

 

[powdersmack]

We could win a NC and you still wouldn’t give any credit to Autry. You’re dislike of him is on a large screen

No one dislikes Red, we all just see the CYO-level coaching on the court every single game. And I'd bet every last dime that I win MegaMillions and the Powerball, in the same week, before we see Autry win a National Championship.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I tend to agree, and moreover I don't see a realistic way forward with Red as the HC. But... I'm just looking at the fairly likely scenario a year from now in which the team is clearly better but not "better enough" in the eyes of a sizeable segment...

I guess to me it depends on what we see. Great talent and mediocre coaching can definitely win games. I read somewhere something like analytics and program can certainly help a coach, but he'd still take a player like LeBron number one. Kind of like you can't coach someone 6'4" into being 7 feet.

So for Red, is what we see next season sustainable? Is there a process on the court? Are players where they need to be, do they make each other better, do we still have the 250th ranked defense in basketball? Are we getting blown out by teams on the regular? Etc. At the end of the day, 19-20-21 wins, a ~.500 conference record, and an selection Sunday nail biter for a play-in 11-seed isn't going to make me real optimistic if the terrible signs are still there. Like phil posted upthread, last season there were 19 wins, but everything else was ugly. Top-50 in KP is what's needed to be in the conversation for the tourney. Top-30 is where Red needs to be. That's a tall order.

 

[phil77]

He does. And has a lot lined up. Like you said, if you're doing your job, you know who will be available via back channels. Our football program does, and Fran knew before he even took the job here. It was clearly a failure by Red last year.

I've been told the budget has been substantially increased. And Alex is on point for the portal. There are no excuses if we're not a tourney team next year.

I think it will come down to roster construction the most and who on the current roster stays and what is their role. I know one who I would move on from fast but will probably stay and be a focal point which scares me. Also, none of the freshmen can start doesn't mean they can't play and get minutes but they can't get starter minutes. So it will be a tall order from the portal this offseason because last offseason was so bad there is no foundation to work from that is good enough.

 

[Chip]

For anyone interested, Axe did a podcast today with Waters as a guest. I thought the portion where he talked about Alabama requesting 22 bench seats at UNC was kinda eye opening. Just how much Bama has sunk into that operation. And we have our 3 assistants.

 

[hoopsupstate]

because Leffew would still be the best PG by far on the team, and potentially the best overall guard. Georgia is just that much better than Syracuse and Leffew is a part of that even if hes only playing 20 minutes a game.

He doesn’t even play the point for Georgia. He stands in the left corner on offense and seldom moves from that side of the court.

 

[Red2003]

Broken record but run an offense, stop taking what everyone knows are the worst shots and stop going under screens all day long if you want me to have faith in the coach

Maybe other things unseen are a problem but we can all see obvious problems

Chicken and the Egg again. Shouldn't more talented players know this like in 10th grade?

 

[hoopsupstate]

Anyone think Donnie is highly likely to be poached?

Teams will definitely try. It comes down to SU and $$$.

 

[sufan59]

So say we hit home runs in the portal and Autry saves his job following a tournament birth. Will he be proactive or reactive when conditions inevitably change again in College Basketball? How will we avoid seasons like these under his supervision moving forward when we are caught by surprise of changing conditions. We need a proactive mindset from our leader to live up to our historical reputation.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Yeah there's gonna be alot of roster holes to fill and soo much improvement needed that its hard to see this coach being able to overcome it. Its like digging a hole too deep to climb out of.

 

[phil77]

Yeah there's gonna be alot of roster holes to fill and soo much improvement needed that its hard to see this coach being able to overcome it. Its like digging a hole too deep to climb out of.

Yup if Freeman doesn't come back which I think he will be gone but people have heard he might stay whatever but let's assume he is gone. You need 5 portal starters no joke. I understand we are going to keep someone we shouldn't so we are going to need 4 portal starters better than him.

 

[Blanko97]

He doesn’t even play the point for Georgia. He stands in the left corner on offense and seldom moves from that side of the court.

that should tell you something about our awful guard play when most agree he would be a much better option

 

[sweetpea]

You, amongst others, need to keep reminding yourselfs that NIL is US, not SU resources.

The additional resources I’d like to see SU provide is the filling of the 2 additional coaching spots the NCAA now allows. My preference would be an older very experienced coach and a young energetic coach. Regardless of what decisions they make about the current staff.

Thank god you didn't mention Greenberg or Martelli.

 

[Sbucketball]

I see the following scenarios possible:

A - Next year is a trainwreck. Red relieved of duties.
B - Next year Red is on the bubble but misses tournament. Most likely relieved but maybe not.
C - Red is on bubble but makes tournament. Gets another year.

What I don't see, and why I just want this to be over, is option D -- Red is squarely in the tournament with no bubble discussion. I just don't see it. Which is why it feels like we're just killing time. I'm not interested in being a bubble program.

 

[Scooch]

. The entire goal of the coaching change was to be better than the end of JB. We have been by far worse.

Was it? I mean, JB wasn’t going to coach until he died on the sideline. He had to step aside at some point. I always believed Autry was the tool to get him out. And that it’d be probable that it’s our next hire that will improve the program.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Was it? I mean, JB wasn’t going to coach until he died on the sideline. He had to step aside at some point. I always believed Autry was the tool to get him out. And that it’d be probable that it’s our next hire that will improve the program.

We agree there. That's why anything less than 23-24 wins it makes no sense to bring Red back for year 4. I'm sure some think that's harsh, but we are most likely just running out the clock here.

 

[kcsu]

I'm fairly certain if we go 20-11 next year and barely make the tournament that he will be back for year 4. I won't be happy about it, but that will give something for the school to sell predicated on a returning freshman class that could possibly get better in year 2.

If we make the tournament of course he will be back

 

[kcsu]

Donnie seems like a test the nba / portal as backup candidate.

If I'm Red and Kline the first thing I do is to determine which existing players, I want to return. Sit down with them, negotiate and give them a deadline to decide. Control the deal. In the case of Donnie, JJ, Bell and the others i hope that this has already taken place. No guessing. Are you in, yes, or no? If yes sign. If no, then Kline moves on and adjust the budget accordingly. That is job 1. No screwing around this year.

 

[MikeSU02]

This is all so tiresome.

Absolving Red of massive ownership and culpability in any capacity is a farce. As others have pointed out, we're talking about being better than Random State University and just making an NCAAT.

It's been almost a decade, basically, where this program hasn't been operating like a modern program.

We have people on this board dismissing or questioning using analytics when they've been around going on years and years. That is all part and parcel with this conversation.

This article, these actions or lack there of, this blaming the players/NIL/the boogeyman is just air coverage for the Syracuse community. As though it will do anything when we keep losing. It's an article to assuage magical thinking and the latest iteration of that thinking that's been going on for almost a decade at this point.

Think about it this way, what do people think competitors in our peer group (god help us whatever that is now) would want? Syracuse to keep Red or Syracuse to go get a Hodgson or someone else? Honestly, think about if the roles were reversed? We'd absolutely love them to keep the status quo.

Who cares. This program is broken. We've let this thing slide to such depths that the only question that is asked in the CBB community outside of Syracuse is "what happened?" and "why are you so awful?".

And they're right. None of these small items mean anything. It's stomping out a cigarette in the middle of a forest fire until there is real systemic change.

Also, just remember, that every other program in the country is trying to get better as well. Not just us. And a lot of them have been doing it better than we have for a while now.

 

[OHIORANGES]

Leffew's play has really fallen off as the season has gone on. He's not been good in SEC play. I don't think he would have helped as much as people think. He'd be a step down from JJ and a step up from Carlos.

Who isn’t a step up from Carlos?