Inside Syracuse’s rough off-season: How portal misses and a lack of NIL money led to a lost year

[oldpinepoint]

If we wind up winning 10-15 games again next year, Wildhack should go, too.
This is his call not to fire Autry. I'll bet our season tickets fall to 10,000 next year, maybe less.

I don’t think it’s his call at all. I think it’s the board, the chancellor, then it’s Ben Franklin and Andrew Jackson. I think JW is 3rd or 4th on list. As much as I would like to see him gone, I think he gets another year.

 

[djcon57]

The thing that has been a constant since I’ve been watching SU and supporting athletics is that they are always reacting and not anticipating. Ever. From facilities to fundraising, by the time they catch up, they are already behind.

In terms of bball, everything that could go wrong has gone wrong. From lack of prep, to players being injured to questionable coaching, this has been a disaster year but call me crazy, I actually think they needed this to happen. This is waking everyone up across the board. It’s time to put up or shut up

This has been a slow rolling dumpster fire since the Sweet 16 season and some folks could see it happening real time. The fact they didn't see this decline coming is scary. Not to suggest that I disagree with what you are saying...

 

[RF2044]

Utah just fired their coach, because he failed to make the NCAA tournament in his first three years (this is his fourth).

He's 15-12 this year, at time of termination.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

FWIW it seems like every time a coach is on the hot seat and they have a season just good enough to save their job, it's still only a matter of time.

I like the move to hire Kline but money still rules. To make the baseball analogy, it was only a few years after Moneyball blew up that the big spenders started focusing on OBP too and from there it became an arms race to find every open frontier teams could think of. We're already behind the 8-ball. I just hope too much isn't being pinned on Kline.

 

[Chip]

Utah just fired their coach, because he failed to make the NCAA tournament in his first three years (this is his fourth).

He's 15-12 this year, at time of termination.

We're not waiting that long.

But I guess one thing in his favor was that the team did improve each of the first 3 years. This year looks like it could end almost identical to last year.

 

[Millhouse]

Chicken and the Egg again. Shouldn't more talented players know this like in 10th grade?

Should they? Yeah
Do they? I doubt it. I'm biased by the nonsense I have to watch (eighth grade son)

 

[Red2003]

That is why coaching is so important at our school we will never have the talent to win at a high level because we won't have the NIL as other schools. If we are going to overpay for something it has to be coaching and coaching staff. Be creative and get out of something be the first school to hire a skill specialty coach like a shooting coach that can work with kids year round etc. Offer other things that other schools right now.

I agree. we need to be much more decisive as people mentioned.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don’t think it’s his call at all. I think it’s the board, the chancellor, then it’s Ben Franklin and Andrew Jackson. I think JW is 3rd or 4th on list. As much as I would like to see him gone, I think he gets another year.

That seems pretty weird to me that the Board and the Chancellor would be in charge of hiring or firing coaches. The only reason I could see for that is that Wildhack overcommitted on the length and salary given to a first time head coach.

 

[IthacaMatt]

FWIW it seems like every time a coach is on the hot seat and they have a season just good enough to save their job, it's still only a matter of time.

I like the move to hire Kline but money still rules. To make the baseball analogy, it was only a few years after Moneyball blew up that the big spenders started focusing on OBP too and from there it became an arms race to find every open frontier teams could think of. We're already behind the 8-ball. I just hope too much isn't being pinned on Kline.

He's going to be the subject next year's "Excuse Interview" between Wildhack and Mike.

 

[oldpinepoint]

That seems pretty weird to me that the Board and the Chancellor would be in charge of hiring or firing coaches. The only reason I could see for that is that Wildhack overcommitted on the length and salary given to a first time head coach.

I think any decision involving millions of dollars in buyout costs would
Need their final approval.

 

[NKR1978]

Wildhack is not very smart about PR. He had no objectivity about how this would sound.

Or it’s possible he’s very smart and knew how this would sound to the fan base at large. Maybe he wanted it out there?

 

[IthacaMatt]

Or it’s possible he’s very smart and knew how this would sound to the fan base at large. Maybe he wanted it out there?

As someone said earlier in this thread, that article leaves it pretty clear that Red has done a terrible job and been wholly unprepared for what was required.

You might think that's "very smart" PR, but it's not going to put fannies in the seats, as they say.

 

[Scotch]

I agree but people really need to wake up and realize that we are no longer in the conversation with these top tier teams.

Far too many people here are living in a world where they think we can get back to that. They think we should be what we used to be but that's going to the be exception not the norm going forward.

Don't get me wrong, the tourney is the minimum expected but sitting as 3-4 seeds and sweet 16's are just not going to happen often any more. It requires being competitive for the best talent every year and that is not us even with top coaching.

In every conversation you hear from our program or even on this thread it's budget this or budget that, we won't overpay for players. Right now though There are 20 teams that will overpay even for their 12th man or 3rd choices just to get them so the next team doesn't get them.

I don’t understand why we can’t be in the 20-30. I get the crazy SEC boosters but programs like Marquette and Creighton and St Johns have figured this out.

 

[tptcuse]

The most brutal thing about this article is that all the guys we missed on (other than Kadary, which was never going to happen) have pedestrian numbers elsewhere. So we can't afford mediocre transfers and that is why we are so bad?

I hope there is a follow-up behind the scenes article about why we have no offensive or defensive identity.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think any decision involving millions of dollars in buyout costs would
Need their final approval.

If Wildhack was a good AD, he would have offered Autry a 3 year contract with University options to renew for years 4 and 5 at guaranteed raises. Next year would be year 3, and there would be no concern with buyouts.

If Autry was guaranteed 5 years, as many have written, that's malpractice by the AD - and frankly the Board for approving such a long contract for an unproven first time coach.

 

[Scooch]

It's tourney or bust next year, there will be no in between, full stop.

I really hope so. I’m not convinced there won’t be rationalizations about an injury, or “that guy committed but he wanted more money!” or that we won 20 and barely missed the tourney so progress.

I fear we’ll be in a Dino-style vortex of excuses for another year if we’re close.

 

[Scooch]

The most brutal thing about this article is that all the guys we missed on (other than Kadary, which was never going to happen) have pedestrian numbers elsewhere. So we can't afford mediocre transfers and that is why we are so bad?

I hope there is a follow-up behind the scenes article about why we have no offensive or defensive identity.

It’s also evidence of how awful our staff is at evaluating talent.

 

[Bulldog04]

This has been a slow rolling dumpster fire since the Sweet 16 season and some folks could see it happening real time. The fact they didn't see this decline coming is scary. Not to suggest that I disagree with what you are saying...

I’m talking about athletics as a whole. Heck the football coaches just are getting new offices now. The football locker is already outdated from when it got “renovated” during Babers tenure. Melo center barely has enough workout equipment and is already starting to show its age. Big time programs do big time things and you can see that if you look at other schools and how they are constantly getting ahead on everything makes an impression. Currently Syracuse doesn’t operate like a big time program. Fran is doing his best but that is because he raised millions of dollars from people that were out of football bc of Dino. But even he knows they have some catching up to do to be considered big time

 

[Red2003]

I don’t understand why we can’t be in the 20-30. I get the crazy SEC boosters but programs like Marquette and Creighton and St Johns have figured this out.

The 3 schools you mentioned don’t have football or really many other sports. Pitinos billionaire best buddy has been well documented too.

Hopefully I don’t need to explain why the SEC is setting the rules now either with the TV money and their fanbases.

Not trying to call you out but this is a major problem with our fanbase. You just think we can flip a switch and the money will just pour in and we can compete.

We can’t. We don’t have the alumni support and the same #’s, Syracuse is a blue collar working town, we also don’t have the university support or the media $’s or really anything that can match these other schools.

We pretty much only have really good attendance for games most of the time but that doesn’t translate directly into NIL either.

 

[baggerbob]

I see the following scenarios possible:

A - Next year is a trainwreck. Red relieved of duties.
B - Next year Red is on the bubble but misses tournament. Most likely relieved but maybe not.
C - Red is on bubble but makes tournament. Gets another year.

What I don't see, and why I just want this to be over, is option D -- Red is squarely in the tournament with no bubble discussion. I just don't see it. Which is why it feels like we're just killing time. I'm not interested in being a bubble program.

Unlike Fran who had a plan before he came here and knew what he needed and how to get it.
Red has shown nothing in almost 2 years that he has any idea what he is doing.

 

[Red2003]

I’m talking about athletics as a whole. Heck the football coaches just are getting new offices now. The football locker is already outdated from when it got “renovated” during Babers tenure. Melo center barely has enough workout equipment and is already starting to show its age. Big time programs do big time things and you can see that if you look at other schools and how they are constantly getting ahead on everything makes an impression. Currently Syracuse doesn’t operate like a big time program. Fran is doing his best but that is because he raised millions of dollars from people that were out of football bc of Dino. But even he knows they have some catching up to do to be considered big time

100%. I remember a certain someone making a big thing about taking busses to games. Guess we all forgot.

 

[Irishsecra1]

Any

if all true, how can the school bring this guy back?

Didn’t raise NIL funds and couldn’t tell he needed to replace departures? How incompetent could one be?

Not to mention that this whole story leads directly to the fact that Red can’t coach and has no system. If he could and did, we could overcome mid-tier funding.

Plus unsubstantiated reports say he threw out Copeland ( who would have done really well at guard this year) and threw a temper tantrum when Maliq decided to leave.
The guy can’t coach during the game, can’t evaluate talent, and can’t develop talent.
He was eager to switch from zone to man to man, but never considered if he had the needed type of talent to pull it off,

i don’t want him back.

As much as JBs skills eroded the last 5 years of his reign, he would have a better win loss record than we have now. And we wouldn’t be a national disgrace at defense.

Sometimes I think they should have given him another year, do a farewell tour and institute a national search, Then we wouldn’t have this train wreck this year. We would have had a good experienced coach this year.

It was still a coveted job last year. Now, we are a national punch line.

 

[richmondcuse03]

As someone said earlier in this thread, that article leaves it pretty clear that Red has done a terrible job and been wholly unprepared for what was required.

You might think that's "very smart" PR, but it's not going to put fannies in the seats, as they say.

That wasn’t a JW sourced story.

 

[Scotch]

The 3 schools you mentioned don’t have football or really many other sports. Pitinos billionaire best buddy has been well documented too.

Hopefully I don’t need to explain why the SEC is setting the rules now either with the TV money and their fanbases.

Not trying to call you out but this is a major problem with our fanbase. You just think we can flip a switch and the money will just pour in and we can compete.

We can’t. We don’t have the alumni support and the same #’s, Syracuse is a blue collar working town, we also don’t have the university support or the media $’s or really anything that can match these other schools.

We pretty much only have really good attendance for games most of the time but that doesn’t translate directly into NIL either.

We have one of the biggest fan bases in the country and plenty of successful, prominent alumni. We need to get better and more creative at fundraising. There is absolutely no reason we should be behind mid major schools when it comes to NIL, regardless of the resources that football demands.

 

[Scooch]

The 3 schools you mentioned don’t have football or really many other sports. Pitinos billionaire best buddy has been well documented too.

Hopefully I don’t need to explain why the SEC is setting the rules now either with the TV money and their fanbases.

Not trying to call you out but this is a major problem with our fanbase. You just think we can flip a switch and the money will just pour in and we can compete.

We can’t. We don’t have the alumni support and the same #’s, Syracuse is a blue collar working town, we also don’t have the university support or the media $’s or really anything that can match these other schools.

We pretty much only have really good attendance for games most of the time but that doesn’t translate directly into NIL either.

People said this about football for a decade though. Suddenly we found a guy who shook the tree and made it happen.

SU cranks out 4-5K alumni every year. Lots of wealthy ones exist.

We can't be the SEC but we don't need to be the SEC.