Inside Syracuse’s rough off-season: How portal misses and a lack of NIL money led to a lost year

[CA Monk]

Breaking:
Syracuse Basketball To Cancel NC State Game To Discourage 'Player Poachers’

 

[pwong]

He’s had one decent year coaching and struck iron getting the ND job cause of it.

I mean he was also the top Purdue assistant and a top Celtics assistant before getting the Penn St job.

 

[kingtidge]

Disagree. Get the right coach and they will win here. No person on this board thought Syracuse would sign a 5 star transfer QB either 15 months ago. The defeatist attitude is annoying. Will Wade would have us in the top 15 next year if he was hired.

I’m not saying we will hire him.

Where did I say we couldn't be top 25 and win games?

I said specifically, the years of perennial top 10 teams and top 4 tourney seeds are behind us.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Shrewsberry is terrible.

hes certainly having a rough go this year and is getting quite angry

 

[Cusefan0307]

I mean he was also the top Purdue assistant and a top Celtics assistant before getting the Penn St job.

Kenny Payne and Red were top assistants.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Where did I say we couldn't be top 25 and win games?

I said specifically, the years of top 10 teams and top 4 tourney seeds are behind us.

We disagree.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Agree 100%. I think what some posters miss is that there isn't just one way to build a successful program.

One way is to spend tons of money on transfers, and try to assemble a super team.

Another is to have good systems on both sides of the ball, and recruit to that -- supplementing via the portal.

A team like Marquette is a great model for us. But we need the right coach, not a guy where the only way he can be successful is to have a team stocked with elite players to offset his coaching limitations.

I’ve said this for years. The issue is we can’t retain anyone and have booted players we shouldn’t. The lack of continuity going back a decade has been an issue.

 

[Red2003]

This^^^^

Respectably competitive is our target at this point.

The years of top 10 teams and top 4 seeds in the tournament are behind us.

It sucks to say out loud, but it's ok to admit.

Yup. Not every year. Maybe we’ll get back but not until the league is fixed.

Little secret for you all. The SEC and B1G don’t want to see that. They’re quite happy to take all the at large bids and have the other leagues have a few teams fight it out.

 

[Red2003]

Agree 100%. I think what some posters miss is that there isn't just one way to build a successful program.

One way is to spend tons of money on transfers, and try to assemble a super team.

Another is to have good systems on both sides of the ball, and recruit to that -- supplementing via the portal.

A team like Marquette is a great model for us. But we need the right coach, not a guy where the only way he can be successful is to have a team stocked with elite players to offset his coaching limitations.

Said only a few pages ago Marquette is paying kam jones 1.9 mil. They even have an NIL collective paying their walkons. This isn’t insider knowledge of their program. This is clearly posted and bragged about on all the sites covering NIL.

Yet you sit here and be like oh Marquette is a good model for us. They don’t even have football come on.

We need the right coach and a lot of money. I don’t card in which order it just is needed.

 

[djcon57]

Said only a few pages ago Marquette is paying kam jones 1.9 mil. They even have an NIL collective paying their walkons. This isn’t insider knowledge of their program. This is clearly posted and bragged about on all the sites covering NIL.

His On3 evaluation is 1.9.

That’s not necessarily what they are paying him. Do you have any other sources that give that number?

On3 says Purdue's Braden Smith is at 1.9 mill too.

Braden Smith - NIL Profile

Latest NIL valuation and social data for Braden Smith

www.on3.com

Do you believe this?

 

[hoopsupstate]

Good lord, help us all if they hire Matt Langel. We will continue to be a mediocre program with that guy. He’s fine. But we’ll never be a top tier ACC program.

Was it Louisville’s coach?

 

[AcAndAc]

Wouldn’t be good enough in my eyes. Short of being in the top 7 seeds next year I don’t see this ending well.

Have to disagree. If .500 level after 2 years and Big Dance in Year 3... that is a rebuild. I do not think an EXTENSION is warranted--except in so far as to allow recruiting so as to not be in last year of contract.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Where did I say we couldn't be top 25 and win games?

I said specifically, the years of perennial top 10 teams and top 4 tourney seeds are behind us.

We had an amazing run from the 2008-09 season through the 2013-14 season. But before then we didn't have many Top 4 seeds for quite a long stretch. From to 1991-92 to 2007-08 (17 seasons) we had:

3 seed: 1x
4 seed: 4x
5 seed: 4x
6 seed: 1x
7 seed: 1x
8 seed: 1x
Probation: 1x
NIT: 4x

So we had one more Top 4 seed vs NITs.


Edit

That resulted in 1 Title, 1 Championship game, and 4 Sweet 16s

 

[Red2003]

His On3 evaluation is 1.9.

That’s not necessarily what they are paying him. Do you have any other sources that give that number?

On3 says Purdue's Braden Smith is at 1.9 mill too.

Braden Smith - NIL Profile

Latest NIL valuation and social data for Braden Smith

www.on3.com

Do you believe this?

Ok let’s just say he’s second behind cooper Flagg in nil. I’m seeing 2 mil in other places.

I’m merely pointing out to people we are 7 figures off from what they’re paying him to what our highest paid player is getting.

Yet that poster is like oh it’s not about the money. Get real.

Yes they have a good coach and we don’t now but that’s not the point. They’re also giving a million more in NIL to their CBest player than us and we’re losing players over 100-200K.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Said only a few pages ago Marquette is paying kam jones 1.9 mil. They even have an NIL collective paying their walkons. This isn’t insider knowledge of their program. This is clearly posted and bragged about on all the sites covering NIL.

Yet you sit here and be like oh Marquette is a good model for us. They don’t even have football come on.

We need the right coach and a lot of money. I don’t card in which order it just is needed.

Marquette did not pay their walkons. The players each contributed to a pot and gave those walk ons funds at Christmas.

 

[AcAndAc]

We had an amazing run from the 2008-09 season through the 2013-14 season. But before then we didn't have many Top 4 seeds for quite a long stretch. From to 1991-92 to 2007-08 (17 seasons) we had:

3 seed: 1x
4 seed: 4x
5 seed: 4x
6 seed: 1x
7 seed: 1x
8 seed: 1x
Probation: 1x
NIT: 4x

So we had one more Top 4 seed vs NITs.

This is true. Plus, some seasons where we were upset out of the Big Dance too. Navy, Richmond, Vermont. We were a whisker away from being the first #1 seed to lose to North Carolina-Asheville.

 

[Scooch]

We had an amazing run from the 2008-09 season through the 2013-14 season. But before then we didn't have many Top 4 seeds for quite a long stretch. From to 1991-92 to 2007-08 (17 seasons) we had:

3 seed: 1x
4 seed: 4x
5 seed: 4x
6 seed: 1x
7 seed: 1x
8 seed: 1x
Probation: 1x
NIT: 4x

So we had one more Top 4 seed vs NITs.


Edit

That resulted in 1 Title, 1 Championship game, and 4 Sweet 16s

Another way of looking at it is that we were a top 5 seed (there ain't much difference between 4 and 5) in more than half of our seasons from 1992 to 2008.

Seeing as that stretch was the bridge between our two greatest eras, it seems pretty good to me.

I mean, we're about to complete our 11th straight season without finishing ranked.

Being a #5 seed or better in 9 of 17 seasons seems amazingly fantasical incredible compared to the garbage we've seen the past decade.

 

[Red2003]

Marquette did not pay their walkons. The players each contributed to a pot and gave those walk ons funds at Christmas.

Yup. It’s nice. The extra millions in nil makes that easier.

 

[jdubs30]

Good lord, help us all if they hire Matt Langel. We will continue to be a mediocre program with that guy. He’s fine. But we’ll never be a top tier ACC program.

If Kline does what he’s supposed to do, I think Langel would be a very good hire.

 

[djcon57]

Ok let’s just say he’s second behind cooper Flagg in nil. I’m seeing 2 mil in other places.

No, I don't accept that premise just because "On3" or twitter sources say so.

 

[kingtidge]

We had an amazing run from the 2008-09 season through the 2013-14 season. But before then we didn't have many Top 4 seeds for quite a long stretch. From to 1991-92 to 2007-08 (17 seasons) we had:

3 seed: 1x
4 seed: 4x
5 seed: 4x
6 seed: 1x
7 seed: 1x
8 seed: 1x
Probation: 1x
NIT: 4x

So we had one more Top 4 seed vs NITs.


Edit

That resulted in 1 Title, 1 Championship game, and 4 Sweet 16s

Fair enough.

I just don't see how we build a powerhouse program again given the money it will require to maintain such a program.

Competitive, top 25 program?? Sure.

Powerhouse perennial top 10?? We're seeing what that costs now and we don't have the $$$ for it.

Plus we've got Kline's role outlined at finding moneyball-esque lower profile recruits at value prices... That is a statement of intent and it's not what the powerhouses will be doing.

People can downvote this all they want, doesn't change reality.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yup. It’s nice. The extra millions in nil makes that easier.

Again, no sources. The only confirmation of NIL buckets I’ve seen for BE schools was UConn having a little over 3.5 million last year and the rumor that Georgetown had 5 million yet somehow they still suck.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Another way of looking at it is that we were a top 5 seed (there ain't much difference between 4 and 5) in more than half of our seasons from 1992 to 2008.

Seeing as that stretch was the bridge between our two greatest eras, it seems pretty good to me.

I mean, we're about to complete our 11th straight season without finishing ranked.

Being a #5 seed or better in 9 of 17 seasons seems amazingly fantasical incredible compared to the garbage we've seen the past decade.

I was more making the point that we were generally in that Top 15-20 range and not a yearly Top 10 team. We were never really the kings of the Big East during that stretch. We had more success in the NCAAT than the Big East.

Our Big East Tournament seeds those 17 years:

1 seed: 1x
2 seed: 3x
3 seed: 3x
4 seed: 3x
5 seed: 3x
7 seed: 1x
8 seed: 1x
9 seed: 2x

 

[Cusefan0307]

I was more making the point that we were generally in that Top 15-20 range and not a yearly Top 10 team. We were never really the kings of the Big East during that stretch. We had more success in the NCAAT than the Big East.

Our Big East Tournament seeds those 17 years:

1 seed: 1x
2 seed: 3x
3 seed: 3x
4 seed: 3x
5 seed: 3x
7 seed: 1x
8 seed: 1x
9 seed: 2x

If we were on that level now we would likely finish second or third in the ACC every year. This is a much weaker conference.

 

[NKR1978]

Yup. Not every year. Maybe we’ll get back but not until the league is fixed.

Little secret for you all. The SEC and B1G don’t want to see that. They’re quite happy to take all the at large bids and have the other leagues have a few teams fight it out.

The big bad big 10 hasn't won a title since 2000.