Insightful and profound observations, really meaningful

[Scooch]

We don’t have to guess about this stuff, we have data.

Fun fact: SU had greater time of possession than their opponent in 4 of the 8 games they lost post-Clemson.

One other was essentially even.

I don’t dispute that the O put the D in bad spots at times. And I don’t dispute that it must have been difficult to stay motivated when the O was so abysmal.

However, the D also stunk to high heaven in most every game they played. And it wasn’t because they were “tired”.

 

[swish7]

or any backup plan to speak of? 8 friggin games and we couldn't find a base set to move the ball behind a mammoth OL with sketchy pass blocking? We just kept calling the same plays without some under center that could run them. We saw Collins and Filardi, Carney never got a full look, and Belin and Williams are still utter mysteries. Run the ball with heavy sets and at least try something different at that point.

Agree that the inability to adjust the offense to the QB playing in the game was one of the many major failures.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Well they were bad last year too.

UNC and BC have horrible Os too. There was no excuse for those 3rd Qs.

When your D can't crack the Top 125 nationally it is insane to say anything but they stink.

I think a more reasonable take would be that the defense is terrible but it’s made more terrible by the offenses issues

 

[MikeSU02]

We don’t have to guess about this stuff, we have data.

Fun fact: SU had greater time of possession than their opponent in 4 of the 8 games they lost post-Clemson.

One other was essentially even.

I don’t dispute that the O put the D in bad spots at times. And I don’t dispute that it must have been difficult to stay motivated when the O was so abysmal.

However, the D also stunk to high heaven in most every game they played. And it wasn’t because they were “tired”.

Just for clarity because I've posted a few times on the D not being ready to go because of our QB situation -- I totally agree with what you are saying.

The D's performance over the last two years under ERob isn't acceptable. I don't care if they started a random fan at QB.

Sounds like a material change to the defensive coaching staff is going to happen in the near future, which is clearly needed.

 

[djorange1989]

I can’t believe there is even a debate about the D sucking. Yeah they played a decent first half a few times, but they also gave up 28 points to ND in the first half, 20 to Ga Tech in the first half, 24 to SMU in the first half, 24 to Duke in the first half, 31 to Tennessee in the first half. That isn’t being tired, that is being sucky

 

[PAcuse]

Dan Mullen

 

[IthacaBarrel]

You're not wrong

I don’t think there is an assistant coach or coordinator that should come back next year. Entire staff was that bad as was Fran but he’s obviously not going anywhere for a year or two.

 

[PhatOrange]

I don’t think there is an assistant coach or coordinator that should come back next year. Entire staff was that bad as was Fran but he’s obviously not going anywhere for a year or two.

Yeah I mean nobody is wrong arguing which unit was worse. Both historically bad.

 

[Eric15]

I'll play ball here as a mainly former defensive player. It's really hard to blame the defense this year albeit its become a board albatross of sorts. Our offense, post Angeli, directly gave up more points than the scored.

The defense single handedly had us up on UNC at half, the ND game was 21-0 before they touched the field, had us within a TD of Miami going into half until Pickie did his thing, had us in the Pitt game until special teams, and had us in a game with Tenny aside from scoop 6 and a late TD.

Only Duke and SMU burned us in the first half, aside from that our D was good enough every game until our offense made it apparent we were no longer even going to accidentally score points. Did they quit in second halves or simply get worn down mentally and physically? Who knows? Do I disagree with playing a 2 LB system? Sure do. BUT it's hard to play 4 full quarters and have to try and play perfect with a corpse of an offense.

If a coordinator is to go it's Nixon... hard stop. The alone will make ERob better.

I agree with the general premise of your post. I think our absolutely anemic offense made a potentially average defense look exponentially worse by doing them zero favors in the final eight games of the year.

 

[Scooch]

I agree with the general premise of your post. I think our absolutely anemic offense made a potentially average defense look exponentially worse by doing them zero favors in the final eight games of the year.

We’d have to climb 65 spots in the rankings to have an “average” defense.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Cherry picking

I've cited multiple instances in 7 of 9 losses. Not sure how it's cherry picking aside from being low hanging fruit?

You admitted you checked out post Angeli though so take that to mean you simply didn't watch games. I don't blame you but if you stopped watching you've really no sense of reference.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I agree with the general premise of your post. I think our absolutely anemic offense made a potentially average defense look exponentially worse by doing them zero favors in the final eight games of the year.

I'm not even slightly surprised you get it, you are historically one of the more heady posters. Presume you actually played sports as well?

It's tough to play 4 quarters when your offense is continuously getting dunked on.

 

[Eric15]

We’d have to climb 65 spots in the rankings to have an “average” defense.

I'm in no way suggesting we're the 85 Bears, but when the offense is just constantly going 3 and out, 3 and out, 3 and out with zero sustained drives IMO it makes the defense look way worse than it actually is.

UConn was pretty good this year albeit against a bad schedule. They went 9-3 beating Duke. And we held them to 17 points in regulation.

Our fresh defense (due to Angeli moving the ball) constantly got stops, tackled extremely well and controlled the line of scrimmage against Clemson who is still Clemson.

 

[Eric15]

I'm not even slightly surprised you get it, you are historically one of the more heady posters. Presume you actually played sports as well?

It's tough to play 4 quarters when your offense is continuously getting dunked on.

Man if I had known I'd get those nice compliments I would agree with the premise of every post you make.

 

[PAcuse]

Looking over the snap counts for the defensive side of the ball most of the Dline where at 20-33 snaps. Safeties also had a good rotation. Only spot that played most of the game was CB (which is normal).
I get 3 and out over and over will where out a team but the offense had the ball for 33 minutes and most of the defense played about half of the snaps.

I think it is a combation of a bunch of things, as we see by the firing of several defensive coaches.
ERob has alot to learn still and maybe he will be back next and if he is he will have to have a senior staff with alot of input to help out. I would prefer he took a demotion and kept AC/DL title and find a great DC.

The defense had some very bright spots in the sea of misery, we need a new Captain to navagate that sea.

 

[Scooch]

I'm in no way suggesting we're the 85 Bears, but when the offense is just constantly going 3 and out, 3 and out, 3 and out with zero sustained drives IMO it makes the defense look way worse than it actually is.

UConn was pretty good this year albeit against a bad schedule. They went 9-3 beating Duke. And we held them to 17 points in regulation.

Our fresh defense (due to Angeli moving the ball) constantly got stops, tackled extremely well and controlled the line of scrimmage against Clemson who is still Clemson.

Maybe? Like I posted earlier, we actually had more time of possession in 4 of the 8 games post-Clemson, and another was basically 50/50.

I’ll do a deeper dive into the data at some point, but at high level, I think our D just flat out sucked.

 

[Eric15]

Maybe? Like I posted earlier, we actually had more time of possession in 4 of the 8 games post-Clemson, and another was basically 50/50.

I’ll do a deeper dive into the data at some point, but at high level, I think our D just flat out sucked.

Pitt and SMU for instance were both very solid teams this year that were in contention for a conference title. We held them to 255 and 370 yards, respectively. Both well under their season averages.

 

[jgeorge322]

I'll play ball here as a mainly former defensive player. It's really hard to blame the defense this year albeit its become a board albatross of sorts. Our offense, post Angeli, directly gave up more points than the scored.

The defense single handedly had us up on UNC at half, the ND game was 21-0 before they touched the field, had us within a TD of Miami going into half until Pickie did his thing, had us in the Pitt game until special teams, and had us in a game with Tenny aside from scoop 6 and a late TD.

Only Duke and SMU burned us in the first half, aside from that our D was good enough every game until our offense made it apparent we were no longer even going to accidentally score points. Did they quit in second halves or simply get worn down mentally and physically? Who knows? Do I disagree with playing a 2 LB system? Sure do. BUT it's hard to play 4 full quarters and have to try and play perfect with a corpse of an offense.

If a coordinator is to go it's Nixon... hard stop. The alone will make ERob better.

Agree on this - not saying Robinson is a savant or even that Robinson should be retained, but a defense isn’t going to last when the offense can’t even manage a first down.

 

[Scooch]

Pitt and SMU for instance were both very solid teams this year that were in contention for a conference title. We held them to 255 and 370 yards, respectively. Both well under their season averages.

And that’s great. Even bad defenses have the occasional good day. We did last year as well.

However, in the first 4 games of the year, when the offense was very good, we gave up 27.5 points per game and 455 yards per game. This includes the 24 points and 408 yards we gave up to Colgate (which *helped* our averages).

If we kept that up all year we’d have ranked 86th in points allowed per game, and 132nd for yards allowed per game.

I just don’t see any way this D would have been “average” even if Angeli never got hurt.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Man if I had known I'd get those nice compliments I would agree with the premise of every post you make.

You seem like a dope individual and you know your stuff. Respect given when it's due

 

[Cusefan95]

I've cited multiple instances in 7 of 9 losses. Not sure how it's cherry picking aside from being low hanging fruit?

You admitted you checked out post Angeli though so take that to mean you simply didn't watch games. I don't blame you but if you stopped watching you've really no sense of reference.

Millhouse is totally bought in on analytics and thinks you can tell everything relevant about sports from a spreadsheet. So that’s his reference.

I like analytics, but realize you need to look up from the spreadsheet and figure out if the output is relevant or if it’s garbage. In the case of the defense this year, I’d pitch almost everything in the trash. Broadly I think guys like you or me who played defense realize just how horrifically awful the position the defensive players were put in. Idealist nerds seem to think everyone should have put the fact the offense was a liability aside and just “played hard”. I can tell you if I was on a team that was down 21-0 before I hit the field, my 100% would be closer to 70% - even though I’d be legitimately trying to be at 100%. It’s demotivating beyond the ability of anyone who hasn’t been in that situation to understand.

No idea why everyone harps on EROB but many give Nixon a pass. If I was a defensive player on this team, I would 1000% be hitting the portal if I had any other viable option. And it wouldn’t be because of EROB - it’s because because I was irate at how bad the situation I got put into on a weekly basis by Nixon and the offense.

Not a defense of ERob - but frankly I think it’s a travesty if both ERob and Nixon aren’t gone. The folks defending Nixon have lost their minds.

 

[Millhouse]

I've cited multiple instances in 7 of 9 losses. Not sure how it's cherry picking aside from being low hanging fruit?

You admitted you checked out post Angeli though so take that to mean you simply didn't watch games. I don't blame you but if you stopped watching you've really no sense of reference.

Apparently every team in college football also has multiple instances because about 125 of them are better overall

 

[Millhouse]

Millhouse is totally bought in on analytics and thinks you can tell everything relevant about sports from a spreadsheet. So that’s his reference.

I like analytics, but realize you need to look up from the spreadsheet and figure out if the output is relevant or if it’s garbage. In the case of the defense this year, I’d pitch almost everything in the trash. Broadly I think guys like you or me who played defense realize just how horrifically awful the position the defensive players were put in. Idealist nerds seem to think everyone should have put the fact the offense was a liability aside and just “played hard”. I can tell you if I was on a team that was down 21-0 before I hit the field, my 100% would be closer to 70% - even though I’d be legitimately trying to be at 100%. It’s demotivating beyond the ability of anyone who hasn’t been in that situation to understand.

No idea why everyone harps on EROB but many give Nixon a pass. If I was a defensive player on this team, I would 1000% be hitting the portal if I had any other viable option. And it wouldn’t be because of EROB - it’s because because I was irate at how bad the situation I got put into on a weekly basis by Nixon and the offense.

Not a defense of ERob - but frankly I think it’s a travesty if both ERob and Nixon aren’t gone. The folks defending Nixon have lost their minds.

It is not analytics to observe that we give up 6.5 yards a play

I watched enough to see that we sucked, I promise

Nixon had one good year. Robinson hasn't. So Robinson deserves to go more

 

[Scooch]

No idea why everyone harps on EROB but many give Nixon a pass.

No one is giving Nixon a pass. People have been pillorying him for weeks. He was awful post-Clemson.

He does have 16 games of very effective offense under his belt though.

Robinson has 2 seasons of utter ineptitude. The D sucked when we had McCord and Angeli playing. Again, we gave up 27.5 ppg and 455 ypg *with* Angeli. When the D should have been plenty motivated to not suck.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Looking over the snap counts for the defensive side of the ball most of the Dline where at 20-33 snaps. Safeties also had a good rotation. Only spot that played most of the game was CB (which is normal).
I get 3 and out over and over will where out a team but the offense had the ball for 33 minutes and most of the defense played about half of the snaps.

I think it is a combation of a bunch of things, as we see by the firing of several defensive coaches.
ERob has alot to learn still and maybe he will be back next and if he is he will have to have a senior staff with alot of input to help out. I would prefer he took a demotion and kept AC/DL title and find a great DC.

The defense had some very bright spots in the sea of misery, we need a new Captain to navagate that sea.

TOP and snap count are misleading... I think the mental fatigue out weighed any physical fatigue by a metric ton. That is why I pointed to halftime breaks as the focal point. We were hot garbage in the 2nd half but games were almost always long gone by then. D was fine in the 2nd half of our wins by contrast.