Is anyone else looking at the commits we are getting & saying OMG we are going to have an offense

[tipphill]

Why don't we wait before we give more credit than it is due. We haven't got one single 4 star player. Not one. the offers look a lot like the offers we were talking to before this. I hope of course these kids are good. But I want to see them before I get too happy.

as i said in another post, i will wait a year before expecting an improvement in recruiting. babers needs time to demonstrate his plan . in the mean time, our recruiting is what i expect to be for him this year. we still remain distantly behind rutgers, who has gotten a couple of 4* and 3-4 ? guys we offered.

 

[TheCusian]

as i said in another post, i will wait a year before expecting an improvement in recruiting. babers needs time to demonstrate his plan . in the mean time, our recruiting is what i expect to be for him this year. we still remain distantly behind rutgers, who has gotten a couple of 4* and 3-4 ? guys we offered.

Most, if not all of those guys were offered or had relationships with Shafer.

As I've shown before our avg ranking is about 2 points off 82 (Cuse) to 84 (Rutgers). The difference is the 2 4* guys. They are ranked higher due to the number of recruits (16 vs 10). The gap is basically 2 guys who they traditionally have a hard time holding onto.

For those saying that this class is similar to past classes and that we should hold our applause until they get on campus are not wrong. But I think there are some differences:

- QB: Devito is as good a QB prospect we've had in the Marrone/Shafer eras. Given the outsized influence that position holds? Reason to get excited.

- Speed: Babers is clearly going after guys who have elite speed. That is good for the dome.

- HC with a proven system: We flipped around from OC to OC enough that the offensive recruits we've gotten class to class have been shoe horned into systems they weren't originally recruited for. Shafer knew what he wanted on D, but his plan on O?!? A proven HC knows what he wants. I'm sold on his ability to identify talent.

 

[SoBristol]

It is a good (not outstanding) start to a recruiting class, with strengths where Babers has had success in the past -- QB and speedy receivers. We will have to see how it comes together at other positions.

Some of the posters above mention defense. In fairness, Babers brought in a new DC in 2015 after the BG defense was bad in 2014; Reynolds as the DL coach is new to Babers; and the secondary coach has had only 2 years of overlap with Babers. It isn't nearly the same situation as on offense where Babers and his two co-coordinators have a proven system.

Having added those footnotes, I am optimistic about 2016. Babers knows how to take inherited talent and get a high-octane offense in place quickly.

 

[texascpa]

You did. I just checked . . . and espn and espn has him at 4. We'll take it, But it's not like he is a consensus 4 star.

True, but he should be. If Dohn wasn't such an RU homer, he would be 4 star on a site that should not be named.

 

[tipphill]

Most, if not all of those guys were offered or had relationships with Shafer.

As I've shown before our avg ranking is about 2 points off 82 (Cuse) to 84 (Rutgers). The difference is the 2 4* guys. They are ranked higher due to the number of recruits (16 vs 10). The gap is basically 2 guys who they traditionally have a hard time holding onto.

For those saying that this class is similar to past classes and that we should hold our applause until they get on campus are not wrong. But I think there are some differences:

- QB: Devito is as good a QB prospect we've had in the Marrone/Shafer eras. Given the outsized influence that position holds? Reason to get excited.

- Speed: Babers is clearly going after guys who have elite speed. That is good for the dome.

- HC with a proven system: We flipped around from OC to OC enough that the offensive recruits we've gotten class to class have been shoe horned into systems they weren't originally recruited for. Shafer knew what he wanted on D, but his plan on O?!? A proven HC knows what he wants. I'm sold on his ability to identify talent.

i may be mistaken, but even a few of their 3* recruits had outstanding offer sheets. from a person just casually looking ru appears doing significantly better. the fact that have 2 -4 star recruits speaks somewhat positively of their impact. what u say re the oc is true. nevertheless, they have a coach with no hc experience, in a program that fraught with issues and they are doing very well recruting wise. we have a coach with hc experience and new system and are doing ok. like i said --no blame to babers at all. he will need to demonstrate his system in the acc and show progress

 

[TheCusian]

i may be mistaken, but even a few of their 3* recruits had outstanding offer sheets. from a person just casually looking ru appears doing significantly better. the fact that have 2 -4 star recruits speaks somewhat positively of their impact. what u say re the oc is true. nevertheless, they have a coach with no hc experience, in a program that fraught with issues and they are doing very well recruting wise. we have a coach with hc experience and new system and are doing ok. like i said --no blame to babers at all. he will need to demonstrate his system in the acc and show progress

Who cares what the casual fan thinks? Dig a touch deeper and you see that they have 2 4* kids and the rest look like our class. The kid we landed on Sun has a Michigan offer. Devito has a BC, Maryland, and Rutgers offer. The WR Palmer from Canada by way of FL has these offers: Illinois, Maryland, Louisville, Michigan, NC State, Nebraska, and Pitt.

I'm not saying we're not currently behind them or that they don't have a good class going - I'm saying you're overemphasizing the gap.

Not for nothing, last year at this time they were ahead by a similar margin, started losing and hemorrhaged all their best players, and Babers out recruited Ash down the stretch.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Babers is clearly going after guys who have elite speed..

What is the definition of elite speed again? 4.4-4.5 is P5 fast, but not exactly playoff-caliber speed. Regardless I'll be the first to say that clocked speed, game speed, etc by itself does not translate into anything without other complementary skills. I'll get more excited when we bag some 4*.

 

[SU2NASA]

as i said in another post, i will wait a year before expecting an improvement in recruiting. babers needs time to demonstrate his plan . in the mean time, our recruiting is what i expect to be for him this year. we still remain distantly behind rutgers, who has gotten a couple of 4* and 3-4 ? guys we offered.

A lot of those Rutgers kids aren't going to stick after they take another stomping by the rest of the B1G.

 

[TheCusian]

What is the definition of elite speed again? 4.4-4.5 is P5 fast, but not exactly playoff-caliber speed. Regardless I'll be the first to say that clocked speed, game speed, etc by itself does not translate into anything without other complementary skills. I'll get more excited when we bag some 4*.

Eh, the average speed for WR/CB at the NFL combine is 4.55. RB is 4.59.

We just got commits from WRs who run: 4.51, 4.42 and CB/ATH at 4.52. And a RB/CB who runs a 4.52.

I'd love to see some 4*...

 

[Alsacs]

Why don't we wait before we give more credit than it is due. We haven't got one single 4 star player. Not one. the offers look a lot like the offers we were talking to before this. I hope of course these kids are good. But I want to see them before I get too happy.

My answer is because Babers has a track record and has a plan. All of these kids won't be immediate impact players but I love the direction of Babers.

Greg Robinson and Scott Shafer never made me feel confident like Babers does. Marrone had more patience from me the first 2 years. Babers just makes me feel good and after what we have been thru that is important.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Who cares what the casual fan thinks? Dig a touch deeper and you see that they have 2 4* kids and the rest look like our class. The kid we landed on Sun has a Michigan offer. Devito has a BC, Maryland, and Rutgers offer. The WR Palmer from Canada by way of FL has these offers: Illinois, Maryland, Louisville, Michigan, NC State, Nebraska, and Pitt.

I'm not saying we're not currently behind them or that they don't have a good class going - I'm saying you're overemphasizing the gap.

Not for nothing, last year at this time they were ahead by a similar margin, started losing and hemorrhaged all their best players, and Babers out recruited Ash down the stretch.

The reality is (for whatever reasons) that RU is significantly outperforming us on the recruiting trail presently. I'm actually very surprised at how well they have done. Of course that can all change by signing day but that is speculative. I'm talking about right now.

They are currently ranked in the top 20 nationally in recruiting with the major recruiting sites and although commitment numbers do matter as to current ranking they are poised to bring in a Top 30 class in Year 1 of Ash.

As for guys we wanted that signed with RU I'll throw out Clark, Fogg, Fatukasi, Melton and Watts of the top of my head. That list may include Hansard in the future as well.

More importantly for SU, Ash is locking down NJ this cycle and that could directly affect us in the future. I would hate to see RU get back up out of the gutter before we have a chance to get back into NJ with a strong presence.

I have no idea how it will all play out but imo its disingenuous for anyone to look at the 2017 recruiting cycle and say the gap is about 2 players. Unfortunately, its much more than that to this point.

 

[Alsacs]

Rutgers has Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State annually on their schedule. We complain about Clemson and Florida State but we only have 2 losses built in to the schedule they have 3-4 each year being nice.

Then Maryland is a 50/50 game and Indiana is not an easy cupcake.

I am not worried one iota about Rutgers. Syracuse needs to have an exciting offense an recruiting will take care of itself.
Baylor when they started upward didn't have the 4/5 star talent. They won 8-9 games and then more and got better talent.

Systems matter in college football Our last 3 coaches had awful offensive systems outside of 2012. You aren't going to win 8-9 games in a year playing meathead football. We finally traded in meathead football for the new age offensive trend. That is reason for excitement right there. Until we win recruiting isn't going to be anything special. However, emphasizing speed and offense in these first commitments brings sizzle we have severely lacked.

 

[TheCusian]

The reality is (for whatever reasons) that RU is significantly outperforming us on the recruiting trail presently. I'm actually very surprised at how well they have done. Of course that can all change by signing day but that is speculative. I'm talking about right now.

They are currently ranked in the top 20 nationally in recruiting with the major recruiting sites and although commitment numbers do matter as to current ranking they are poised to bring in a Top 30 class in Year 1 of Ash.

As for guys we wanted that signed with RU I'll throw out Clark, Fogg, Fatukasi, Melton and Watts of the top of my head. That list may include Hansard in the future as well.

More importantly for SU, Ash is locking down NJ this cycle and that could directly affect us in the future. I would hate to see RU get back up out of the gutter before we have a chance to get back into NJ with a strong presence.

I have no idea how it will all play out but imo its disingenuous for anyone to look at the 2017 recruiting cycle and say the gap is about 2 players. Unfortunately, its much more than that to this point.

As I've said - the two 4* is what separates us from them. I want some quality 4* and wish we had those two players in particular... But it's not disingenuous, it's math.

Rutgers with the 4* kids have 18 commits (#16 nationally, #3 B1G) with an average rating of .8470.
Syracuse with 10 commits and no 4* kids (#51 nationally, #11 ACC) have an average rating of .8287.

Okay, let's remove the two 4* kids:

Rutgers has 16 commits with an average rating of .8373.
Syracuse has a kid who no one has ranked yet from Canada, let's remove him for now (though MM was on Axe saying he's probably a 3* and that Devito and Stritzinger could get a 4th *, TBD)
Syracuse has 9 commits with an average rating of .8429.

----

Throw out Clark and Fogg - they were offered under the old staff. I don't think Hansard is offered by Babers either. When I wrote the original post you responded to, Fatukasi hadn't committed yet, but that's fair I suppose. We did want Melton and Watts. They wanted Devito and Coley. So 2-2.

 

[bnoro]

The reality is (for whatever reasons) that RU is significantly outperforming us on the recruiting trail presently. I'm actually very surprised at how well they have done. Of course that can all change by signing day but that is speculative. I'm talking about right now.

They are currently ranked in the top 20 nationally in recruiting with the major recruiting sites and although commitment numbers do matter as to current ranking they are poised to bring in a Top 30 class in Year 1 of Ash.

As for guys we wanted that signed with RU I'll throw out Clark, Fogg, Fatukasi, Melton and Watts of the top of my head. That list may include Hansard in the future as well.

More importantly for SU, Ash is locking down NJ this cycle and that could directly affect us in the future. I would hate to see RU get back up out of the gutter before we have a chance to get back into NJ with a strong presence.

I have no idea how it will all play out but imo its disingenuous for anyone to look at the 2017 recruiting cycle and say the gap is about 2 players. Unfortunately, its much more than that to this point.

Doesn't matter what the class is rated at the start of the day, it matters on signing day. Rutgers never hangs on to these kids. They'll fall back to the pack when the big names start committing places and their kids start decommitting.

 

[retro44]

As I've said - the two 4* is what separates us from them. I want some quality 4* and wish we had those two players in particular... But it's not disingenuous, it's math.

Rutgers with the 4* kids have 18 commits (#16 nationally, #3 B1G) with an average rating of .8470.
Syracuse with 10 commits and no 4* kids (#51 nationally, #11 ACC) have an average rating of .8287.

Okay, let's remove the two 4* kids:

Rutgers has 16 commits with an average rating of .8373.
Syracuse has a kid who no one has ranked yet from Canada, let's remove him for now (though MM was on Axe saying he's probably a 3* and that Devito and Stritzinger could get a 4th *, TBD)
Syracuse has 9 commits with an average rating of .8429.

----

Throw out Clark and Fogg - they were offered under the old staff. I don't think Hansard is offered by Babers either. When I wrote the original post you responded to, Fatukasi hadn't committed yet, but that's fair I suppose. We did want Melton and Watts. They wanted Devito and Coley. So 2-2.

Like the work you did kid

 

[HtownOrange]

Unless NJTech goes 10-2 or better, the creme de la creme of their recruits will end up at UM, tOSU, MSU, PSU or another big name school, or they will drop in their rankings. With an unproven system and an unproven staff, there are likely to be more growing pains than great successes in the Scarlet Knights near future. Until they can build a long term winning streak, (8+ wins annually) in their brutal division, they probably will not get the cream off the top recruiting wise. Unless a kid really, really wants mom to see him play in person six Saturdays each fall, any kid will consider a big name school if he thinks he can play on Sunday.

 

[reedny]

As I've said - the two 4* is what separates us from them. I want some quality 4* and wish we had those two players in particular... But it's not disingenuous, it's math.

Rutgers with the 4* kids have 18 commits (#16 nationally, #3 B1G) with an average rating of .8470.
Syracuse with 10 commits and no 4* kids (#51 nationally, #11 ACC) have an average rating of .8287.

Okay, let's remove the two 4* kids:

Rutgers has 16 commits with an average rating of .8373.
Syracuse has a kid who no one has ranked yet from Canada, let's remove him for now (though MM was on Axe saying he's probably a 3* and that Devito and Stritzinger could get a 4th *, TBD)
Syracuse has 9 commits with an average rating of .8429.

----

Throw out Clark and Fogg - they were offered under the old staff. I don't think Hansard is offered by Babers either. When I wrote the original post you responded to, Fatukasi hadn't committed yet, but that's fair I suppose. We did want Melton and Watts. They wanted Devito and Coley. So 2-2.

Look at you going all mathematical.

 

[SU2NASA]

Unless NJTech goes 10-2 or better, the creme de la creme of their recruits will end up at UM, tOSU, MSU, PSU or another big name school, or they will drop in their rankings. With an unproven system and an unproven staff, there are likely to be more growing pains than great successes in the Scarlet Knights near future. Until they can build a long term winning streak, (8+ wins annually) in their brutal division, they probably will not get the cream off the top recruiting wise. Unless a kid really, really wants mom to see him play in person six Saturdays each fall, any kid will consider a big name school if he thinks he can play on Sunday.

This goes here now.

 

[SWC75]

Old man on the porch here:

Tell me about the offensive line and whether we're going to be able to stop anybody on defense.

 

[chugg21]

The discrepancy between NY & NJ high school football and the kids that are developed within each melts my brain.

 

[TheCusian]

Old man on the porch here: Tell me about the offensive line and whether we're going to be able to stop anybody on defense.

Young guy on lawn post:

The O line is always important, but the scheme will mask some of our deficiencies. The quick passing game will keep the QB safe. The scheme is built to go N/S with the running game (easier blocking assignments).

The defense will be a work in progress. But I think it's fair to wonder what teams have enough offense to keep up with ours. The defense needs timely stops and TO's.

 

[HtownOrange]

This goes here now.

Well put, my friend. This graph shows just how thoroughly NJT is cleaning house and building its wall around NJ.

 

[HtownOrange]

The discrepancy between NY & NJ high school football and the kids that are developed within each melts my brain.

Does NJ allow year round practices for single sports? I know Texas and Florida do and the commitment is from a young child through high school. Rarely is a kid allowed to play more than one sport. And if a kid slacks off even the slightest in the "off-season workouts", he is likely to lose a starting position.

 

[SURU]

Does NJ allow year round practices for single sports? I know Texas and Florida do and the commitment is from a young child through high school. Rarely is a kid allowed to play more than one sport. And if a kid slacks off even the slightest in the "off-season workouts", he is likely to lose a starting position.

No. In NJ a lot of the lineman wrestle during the offseason and the skill guys run track. Being a 2 sport athlete is highly encouraged

 

[billsin01]

Doesn't matter what the class is rated at the start of the day, it matters on signing day. Rutgers never hangs on to these kids. They'll fall back to the pack when the big names start committing places and their kids start decommitting.

I'd argue it really doesn't matter that much on signing day either. I know I'm pretty much alone on this -- though I agree with everyone else that I'd rather have a class full of 4-star kids than 2-star kids -- but the idea that people still worry about stars is pretty funny to me. It would be one thing if kids only came out of the woodwork to be really good/great players or NFL-level talent, but it happens all the time.

This is going by memory and not scientific, but if you look at the kids drafted since like '06 (random date figuring on about 10 years), for example, you have plenty of guys who came in and were expected to be pretty darn good from the start: LaCasse, Anthony and Kelvin Smith, Durand, Hogue, Carter, Tiller, Shamarko Thomas, Pugh and Spruill.

But there were a lot of guys who didn't come here with much fanfare at all: The Jones brothers, Tanard Jackson, Fiametta, Bromley, Nassib, Mike Williams and Ojinnaka (I'm not really sure on Dixon so I'll put him here as well).

Granted, the overall theme might be that we haven't had too much talent selected in the past decade, including getting shut out in 2015, but at the same time, it's not like there is anything close to a direct line drawn between 4-star kids and future NFL draft selections.

The bottom line is you need a staff at Syracuse that can turn over stones to find Mike Williams and Jay Bromley as well as a staff that can battle and occasionally lane Delone Carter and Doug Hogue. To get too concerned over stars or to treat them as some sort of definitive evaluation of a recruiting class is misguided in my opinion.