Is Boeheim Serious???

[jgeorge322]

It was a definitely a 3 pointer. I was wondering why we were only up 2 and was glad to see it fixed after break.

I thought it was a 3 watching it live. Saw they put it up as a 2, and was hoping it was a mistake. Then it changed to 55-52, but yeah I heard nothing from the announcers. Of course, I was yelling at the TV a lot at that point and not listening to them anyway. My throat is so sore already.

Ok so it wasnt me. Broadcast should of clarified that.

 

[longislandcuse]

I agree that we should force them into mid range jumpers but just because want want them to do it doesn't mean they will, towards the end of the game when mitchell or the other big white center was in there we were sagging off him but he wouldn't take that shot, he pass it out to one of the quicker guards and there would now be a ton of space in there because we sagged off him, but for u to question the zone and say we played it very poorly and is almost the reason we lost is way out of left field, I'm not alone in seeing that judging by the responses from pretty much every person in here. Your stance on this isn't the minority, its an outlier. Now i will say we do need to do a much better job of identify a hot shooter and making sure we don't lose him, thats been an issue all year

I do need my reinforcements. We've hashed this a bunch of times this year and my usual anti-current iteration of the zone posters aren't on tonight but we'll have to agree to disagree. I just don't think ASU had any business keeping this game close. We struggle offensively but they are a straight up BAD team that got into the tourney because of some bizarro OOC run they had before playing conference games in a garbage can of a league.

 

[malpearl31]

This was about as conclusive a refutation as could be imagined. Great post, and kudos for digging up the data.

Thanks. Happy to help - still find it hard to believe that people would complain about our defense after we won the game with a great defensive effort... but I guess that’s the world of fan message boards...

 

[Cheriehoop]

Too many people on this board are just absolutely miserable.

 

[longislandcuse]

did you happen to see malpearl's post above?

Yes. I don't think ASU is good...like, at all. I think we couldn't beat them by double digits and been comfortably leading all game. Nowhere in my posts do I say we play bad defense. We don't. We could be a lot better though (IMO) by making a few tactical tweaks.

 

[pearl31]

Yes. I don't think ASU is good...like, at all. I think we couldn't beat them by double digits and been comfortably leading all game. Nowhere in my posts do I say we play bad defense. We don't. We could be a lot better though (IMO) by making a few tactical tweaks.

But you were arguing that because of our defense we kept them in the game.
malpearl posted #s clearly refuting that

 

[orangeinohio]

Sometimes I think that in another time and circumstance that Jim Boeheim would have been an incredible mime.

He would have been an incredibly angry mime.

 

[longislandcuse]

But you were arguing that because of our defense we kept them in the game.

Yes. Because all they can do is shoot threes. JB astutely acknowledged that when ASU was announced as our opponent.

Our defense is good. It can very well keep a bad team below their averages. Averages they accumulated in the worst P5 Basketball Conference ever and a hot start OOC. I thought our defense was ok and our pace of play got to them. Essentially we dragged them into a rock fight. I'm 100% convinced that if we tweaked the zone to what K has been doing more of, that we're up double digits all game and win easily. Our defense could have completely neutered them as their only chance to keep it close with us was hitting threes. We're not that good but they are a bad basketball team. I'd compare them to a smaller BC.

 

[pearl31]

Yes. Because all they can do is shoot threes. JB astutely acknowledged that when ASU was announced as our opponent.

Our defense is good. It can very well keep a bad team below their averages. Averages they accumulated in the worst P5 Basketball Conference ever and a hot start OOC. I thought our defense was ok and our pace of play got to them. Essentially we dragged them into a rock fight. I'm 100% convinced that if we tweaked the zone to what K has been doing more of, that we're up double digits all game and win easily. Our defense could have completely neutered them as their only chance to keep it close with us was hitting threes. We're not that good but they are a bad basketball team. I'd compare them to a smaller BC.

Fair enough. Just don't quite agree
LGO

 

[malpearl31]

Yes. I don't think ASU is good...like, at all. I think we couldn't beat them by double digits and been comfortably leading all game. Nowhere in my posts do I say we play bad defense. We don't. We could be a lot better though (IMO) by making a few tactical tweaks.

In ACC play, we beat exactly 3 teams by double digits - Pitt, BC and Va Tech. All at the Dome. Not sure what would make anyone think we would beat ASU by 10+ and lead comfortably the entire game on a neutral court... that’s not who this year’s team is.

 

[cuseinseattle]

The zone that has gone to two final fours in the last 5 years? That zone? The zone that K thanked Hop and JB for just this past week? That zone?

We could be up 14-12 at halftime and he would blame the zone

 

[syr14]

So how many points should we have held them to in order to satisfy the JB doubters?

 

[DoctorBombay]

I’ve been on this board, and the couple before this latest iteration, for a long time. Ive seen lotsa of threads, posts, and differing takes- some i agreed with & others i didn’t.
This is, by far...especially given the circumstances this year & coming off a WIN in a tournament that few of us figured we’d even be in, the most inexplicably bad and miserable thread i have ever seen.
I could call it dumb, stupid, and petty, but that would be doing an injustice to dumbness, stupidity, and pettiness.
I’m absolutely flummoxed at some of these takes, and honestly, my overall respect for the board, not that anyone should give a dam, has been somewhat diminished. Wow.
JMHO

 

[Syracuse153]

Didnt get why boehim would be made he made it. Literally make the free throw and you can walk straight to locker room. Games over next time Arizona St touches the ball.

 

[OrangeDW]

At least T-bone shut his yap for tonight!

 

[cuseattle]

The zone that gives up open threes, every time, off of 3 predictable offensive attacks. The zone that has a bizarre fixation on stopping mid-range jump shots. The zone that allows multiple lobs/dunks per game.

This years defense has been masked by insanely slow pace of play. Our defense is the anti-2018 defense. We are insanely long yet collapse on everything and get sucked up into the mid-range.

This all results in dunks and open threes. High percentage momentum shots. We should be forcing kids to take mid-range twos and make quick decisions in semi-claustrophobic spaces with players around them but allowing them to pull the trigger.

We had no business almost losing to ASU. JB even said they shoot the 3 well and we need to stop that...well????? Tf was that performance?

The zone makes the opponents take bad threes. Then pushes them out for worse ones.
That's my take on what he's doing. Pushing them out incrementally.

 

[Sherman20]

happy as hell yes...but is Jimmy going senile? He wanted Frank to miss? WHAT!!...that scares the crap outta me

I wonder if he thought we were only up 2 and he didn’t want to give them time to get off a full court heave, so if he missed on purpose they wouldn’t have time to get off a shot on the rebound. That’s the only explanation I got.

 

[br801]

I’ve been on this board, and the couple before this latest iteration, for a long time. Ive seen lotsa of threads, posts, and differing takes- some i agreed with & others i didn’t.
This is, by far...especially given the circumstances this year & coming off a WIN in a tournament that few of us figured we’d even be in, the most inexplicably bad and miserable thread i have ever seen.
I could call it dumb, stupid, and petty, but that would be doing an injustice to dumbness, stupidity, and pettiness.
I’m absolutely flummoxed at some of these takes, and honestly, my overall respect for the board, not that anyone should give a dam, has been somewhat diminished. Wow.
JMHO

 

[Newhouser]

I’ve had my fair share of Boeheim complaints this year, but I thought he coached circles around Hurley today.

I agree and have also been hard on JB. Tonight we won the sideline battle. That said in terms of this thread he clearly said "I told you to miss" to Frank. Questions about why it's relevant seem fine but questions on whether he said it are nonsense.

 

[RF2044]

Yeah I'm 100% positive JB yelled at Frank "I told you to miss it"

I was on the phone with my dad at the end of the game, as things unfolded. We both noted JB's anger as time expired.

My dad actually suggested that Frank should miss, because with .04 left, corralling the rebound takes up all the time and they wouldn't be able to even get a desperation heave up. BUT, making the free throw puts us up 4 and effectively ends the game, too.

So we were both puzzled about why JB would be so upset. Either way, the game's over. Not worth him getting worked up over in the immediate aftermath of an NCAA win.

 

[CIL]

I feel I make very strong points about how the zone can be a weapon but that there's some serious concerns with how we play it. If you don't respect me or whatever you're trying to say, that's fine, no need to respond to me then. Talk to the posters you like.

But you are wrong. That data does not support your argument. We are literally one of the best defensive teams in the country, and have been 4 out of the last 5 years (top decile in defensive efficiency).

Optically it may seem like we give up easier buckets or more uncontested threes than our opponents, but it isn’t true.

 

[pfister1]

Wait, criticize the coach? I thought we were here to criticize the refs.....man, they sucked last night!! Worst refereed game I've seen in at least a week.

Ok, now its your turn.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

Don't ask that here. JB is a genius.

His zone is outdated af and I'm beyond sick of it.

Notice I said "his zone". The zone can still be a weapon but he's too stubborn to modernize it.

Steven hawking was a genius. JB IS NOT. having the ball inbounded to Chewey when ASU needed to foul a poor free throw shooter. Then he gets mad at the inbounder. chewey should have been a 100 yds from ball

 

[PhatOrange]

Steven hawking was a genius. JB IS NOT. having the ball inbounded to Chewey when ASU needed to foul a poor free throw shooter. Then he gets mad at the inbounder. chewey should have been a 100 yds from ball

It's JB's fault that Brissett threw it in to Chewy? Chewy came up to help out because nobody else did anything to get open.

 

[oli44]

I was on the phone with my dad at the end of the game, as things unfolded. We both noted JB's anger as time expired.

My dad actually suggested that Frank should miss, because with .04 left, corralling the rebound takes up all the time and they wouldn't be able to even get a desperation heave up. BUT, making the free throw puts us up 4 and effectively ends the game, too.

So we were both puzzled about why JB would be so upset. Either way, the game's over. Not worth him getting worked up over in the immediate aftermath of an NCAA win.

I don't like missing on purpose because you open up a the chance of a violation with an air-ball or missing the rim. Players don't practice missing free throws ( at least I hope they don't) so who knows what happens. Giving them the ball out of bounds with .4 and down 3 is about the only chance they have in that situation. A make or an organic miss seals it. It is minuscule in the big picture but it was an interesting segment.