Is end of season the best time for a coach change?

[miamicuse]

First of all I don't want this thread to be turned into if and when Red should be replaced this year or next year. It's not about that and there are already 88 threads talking about Red's coaching, recruiting, player developing and NIL harvesting capabilities.

This is a question about MBB in general. In the past, coaches who are going to resign, retire or be fired typically happen at the end of the BB season. That makes sense to me.

However, with the portal opening after the second weekend of the NCAA tournament, canning a coach after the season, and assuming the next coach is not yet lined up and a full search is to take place, that would mean when it's all said and done, the new HC may miss the portal recruitment window, right?

Does this factor into a school who is considering a staff change to not wait till the end of the season? Is this perhaps why Miami did it much sooner so they can be ready to hit the portal with the new staff come March?

 

[jdubs30]

Any coach you’re going to want is most likely not going to leave his job until the season is over.

If we fired Red tomorrow, AG probably gets the job, at least on an interim basis. We would still do a national search when the season was over

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Not the time to fire someone but never a bad time for JW to be working back channels to gauge who might be available and which players they might be able to bring over if the money's right.

 

[miamicuse]

Not the time to fire someone but never a bad time for JW to be working back channels to gauge who might be available and which players they might be able to bring over if the money's right.

One would think so that JW would be doing back channel conversations with those on his list BUT,

The coaching fraternity is tight and small, imagine JW casting a wide net last year in spring in anticipation of JB's retirement and it leaked back to JB, how would that have played out? That kind of tied his hands I would think. He would have to wait till JB's announcememt and do a nationwide search after, missing the portal window very likely.

 

[CU44SE]

I believe in Professional sports you should only fire your coach in season if you’re looking for a little boost. I don’t think professional teams should move on during the season because if you do stink, your draft pick will be better.

In college, I think you move on once the season is deemed over and you’re going to make a change anyways. Get things in motion. Have the guy coach the rest of the year if they want out of respect. But you don’t get anything out of keeping someone that is not in your future plans and doesn’t increase your draft capital like it does in the professional ranks.

 

[Idiocuse22&]

Any coach you’re going to want is most likely not going to leave his job until the season is over.

If we fired Red tomorrow, AG probably gets the job, at least on an interim basis. We would still do a national search when the season was over

If red was fired tomorrow, I hope its not given to AG.
At least the new guy has some successful years as a head coach at who cares what level.
I feel AG is least important on staff.
Help me with positive things AG has brought to the table...seriously?
AG = more of the same or potentially worse.
Give the only other former HC thats had success a shot. who knows what could possibly happen?
Would be our first look without the JB brainwashing, shortsighted to waste that free test run/open invitation.
If AG was promoted we all know it would be more of the same however we'd now be...~leaping off a cliff.

 

[miamicuse]

If red was fired tomorrow, I hope its not given to AG.
At least the new guy has some successful years as a head coach at who cares what level.
I feel AG is least important on staff.
Help me with positive things AG has brought to the table...seriously?
AG = more of the same or potentially worse.
Give the only other former HC thats had success a shot. who knows what could possibly happen?
Would be our first look without the JB brainwashing, shortsighted to waste that free test run/open invitation.
If AG was promoted we all know it would be more of the same however we'd now be...~leaping off a cliff.

If a coach leaves in the middle of the season, whether it's retirement, medical/family reasons, termination, whatever, the current associate HC always assume the HC position, I don't think there is any exception because the AD simply do not have time to find a replacement and most likely other coaches would not be available to interview for a job that will open up next season while they are under contract to another school this season. You name the current associate HC the "interim HC" and try to keep the team together knowing that there will be major changes at the end of the season.

This is the same reason why some older coaches wait till the start of the season to announce their retirement to force schools to promote their assistants at least to an interim HC because they would be caught by surprise and have no choice but to give the assistant one season of trial at least.

 

[atlanticuse]

One would think so that JW would be doing back channel conversations with those on his list BUT,

The coaching fraternity is tight and small, imagine JW casting a wide net last year in spring in anticipation of JB's retirement and it leaked back to JB, how would that have played out? That kind of tied his hands I would think. He would have to wait till JB's announcememt and do a nationwide search after, missing the portal window very likely.

Yeah look at how great that inbred process worked out for us.

 

[atlanticuse]

At least the new guy has some successful years as a head coach at who cares what level.

Agree AG would be bad, but wasn’t his brother a coach?

And I didn’t know who the new guy was - no it’s not Petar with his euro step goatee - but he was jawing at the refs during TO’s last game.

The challenge is whether our bigger issue right now is talent or coaching.

Red should have elicited help before we fell into this abyss of poop. He hasn’t appeared to. Or if he has, then the whole program should be incinerated.

Including our EX NBA TWITTER GM INFLUENCER TALENT HOST!

 

[DilemaCuse]

One would think so that JW would be doing back channel conversations with those on his list BUT,

The coaching fraternity is tight and small, imagine JW casting a wide net last year in spring in anticipation of JB's retirement and it leaked back to JB, how would that have played out? That kind of tied his hands I would think. He would have to wait till JB's announcememt and do a nationwide search after, missing the portal window very likely.

Last year? Do you mean in 23 when he was removed or in spring of 22 prior to his final season?

Anyways, AD's shouldnt be afraid to do this sort of thing, the coach reports to them, thats the heirarchy. However, the JB case was unique and challenging. I think JW was treating JB on a year to year basis and he wasnt going to go willingly or give him notice prior to the start of a season. SU had a young freshman team that year, I think JW saw the lack of supplementing with the portal prior to that season as a failure in roster construction. JB said they were a tournament team and by Jan/Feb is was sort of clear that was not the case. From insiders, it sounds like the BOT was meddling with JW and his ability to remove JB based on his friendship with these folks and legendary status. It sounds like JB asked for 1 more year and JW had to make sure he didnt get that year but the compromise was that an internal hire to be made to not make it look so much like an actual firing where they would have cleaned house and it would have kind of embarrased JB.

Only other similar scenario I remember like this was Tom Jurich at Louisville making the decision to fire Denny Crum and hire Rick Pitino. He said that decision to dismiss was the hardest one.

Now, when your just a run of the mill coach and dont have the court named after you, you can just announce in late Feb, so and so will not be retained and dismissed at the end of the season and national search is underway, etc.

Now you can always get the rare instance where dead man walking coach has his team go on run in Conference tourney play and maybe still a bid. Makes for a great story but rarely happens.

 

[kcsu]

Always year end. Immediately after the last game.

 

[miamicuse]

Last year? Do you mean in 23 when he was removed or in spring of 22 prior to his final season?

I meant in 23, when JB announced his confusing retirement or not at his last post game presser.

The only way to have the retirement announcement and have someone else announced as a replacement a day or two later was an internal hire. It's simply not realistic to announce JB's retirement and have an outside coach stand by to step in quickly.

A nationwide formal search right after with serious conversations with these candidates, where some of them may still be coaching their team after sweet sixteen weekend so there may be some wait, as well as whatever time for contract negotiations etc...it takes time.

But then the portal for this year opens after the 2nd NCAA weekend and stays open for 30 days, so doing a wide search means having no one to hit the portal for the following year.

I am not saying not doing a nationwide search in 23 was the correct approach, I am merely saying any school who needs a replacement for the BB coach has to choose between a HC search process or portal harvesting because the windows overlap. Does this factor into an AD's decision on the timing of terminating a coach?

I do not think having serious conversations with target HCs before the current HC is told he's done is realistic, the optics will be so bad if that leaked (and it will leak) especially in JB's case.

 

[DilemaCuse]

I meant in 23, when JB announced his confusing retirement or not at his last post game presser.

The only way to have the retirement announcement and have someone else announced as a replacement a day or two later was an internal hire. It's simply not realistic to announce JB's retirement and have an outside coach stand by to step in quickly.

A nationwide formal search right after with serious conversations with these candidates, where some of them may still be coaching their team after sweet sixteen weekend so there may be some wait, as well as whatever time for contract negotiations etc...it takes time.

But then the portal for this year opens after the 2nd NCAA weekend and stays open for 30 days, so doing a wide search means having no one to hit the portal for the following year.

I am not saying not doing a nationwide search in 23 was the correct approach, I am merely saying any school who needs a replacement for the BB coach has to choose between a HC search process or portal harvesting because the windows overlap. Does this factor into an AD's decision on the timing of terminating a coach?

I do not think having serious conversations with target HCs before the current HC is told he's done is realistic, the optics will be so bad if that leaked (and it will leak) especially in JB's case.

Yeah, certainly an internal promotion is easier and quicker. However Im off the belief you dont hire internal when its trending in the wrong direction and because its quicker. The right hire, will right the ship. Yeah you may miss out on immediacy in the portal but its better to get it right, players stay less time than the coaches and hiring the right coach can lead to keeping him for a while. Making the wrong hire means your right back to square one in 2 or 3 years.

And coaching carousel rumors happen all the time, sometimes they come true, sometimes they don't and sometimes the hire comes from out of left field. Its the reason they call the first week of December in college football the Silly Season. As for the bball candidates, not many on SUs radar are coaching the 2nd week of the tournament. Thats usually reserved for big programs that SU would not be able to poach, possibly a cinderella that they would have to wait to poach but that should not be an issue that gets in the way, you wait another week if you have to, to land that coach from a smaller program.

Heres a recent example, Nick Saban retires. Alabama hired Kalen Deboer in 49 hours.
Inside Nick Saban's decision to retire, Alabama's pursuit of Kalen DeBoer and a week that changed college football
Now Alabama football carries alot of weight but good, powerful AD's can move quickly and from candidate to candidate. Thats why they get paid big bucks, it can be done.

And as for the optics, maybe it would look bad, but people would move on pretty quickly to the hire in this 24 hours news cycle.

 

[miamicuse]

Yeah, certainly an internal promotion is easier and quicker. However Im off the belief you dont hire internal when its trending in the wrong direction and because its quicker. The right hire, will right the ship. Yeah you may miss out on immediacy in the portal but its better to get it right, players stay less time than the coaches and hiring the right coach can lead to keeping him for a while. Making the wrong hire means your right back to square one in 2 or 3 years.

And coaching carousel rumors happen all the time, sometimes they come true, sometimes they don't and sometimes the hire comes from out of left field. Its the reason they call the first week of December in college football the Silly Season. As for the bball candidates, not many on SUs radar are coaching the 2nd week of the tournament. Thats usually reserved for big programs that SU would not be able to poach, possibly a cinderella that they would have to wait to poach but that should not be an issue that gets in the way, you wait another week if you have to, to land that coach from a smaller program.

Heres a recent example, Nick Saban retires. Alabama hired Kalen Deboer in 49 hours.
Inside Nick Saban's decision to retire, Alabama's pursuit of Kalen DeBoer and a week that changed college football
Now Alabama football carries alot of weight but good, powerful AD's can move quickly and from candidate to candidate. Thats why they get paid big bucks, it can be done.

And as for the optics, maybe it would look bad, but people would move on pretty quickly to the hire in this 24 hours news cycle.

In Saban's case it was Saban's decision and he gave the AD the heads up way ahead of time. There was time to send out feelers and gauge their interests and also with Saban's blessing. A bit different in JB's case. But yes I agree a nation (or even international) wide search should have been done but we are beyond that now.