Is It Realistic to Hope Boeheim Adapts At All? | Syracusefan.com

Is It Realistic to Hope Boeheim Adapts At All?

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cuse522

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To me there are two things that I would like to see Boeheim change, in order to evolve and learn from our failures. Both seem obvious, but he hasn't done anything about them yet.

First, how many tournament games have we lost because key players were in foul trouble or gassed, or just didn't have their shooting touch and we had no other options? As people on this board have mentioned ad nauseum, he needs to have a deeper rotation. If he took five minutes a game away from Ennis and Fair, he could spread them out and develop some other scoring options and most important, keep those guys fresh for March.

A lot of people, including JB, like to say that these guys are young kids and fatigue is overblown. I'm less concerned with fatigue and more concerned with all of the bumps and bruises that build up over the course of the season. Those wear on you, and limiting minutes a bit will limit them.

Secondly, we need more of an offensive identity. A few weeks ago I was talking to my buddies and said JB should just green light Ennis, Fair and Grant to attack the basket every time they touch the ball. Sometimes they did, but a lot of times they settled. Our opponents look lost because they can't handle the zone, but we looked lost because we had no offensive identity. This is the same thing that caused our tailspin at the end of last regular season IMO. They basically set high ball screens, the occasional pick and roll to an ineffective big, there are some off ball screens for Cooney and isos. They need more of an offense.

I know that more practice time is devoted to the zone, and I'm okay with that, but if the offense is going to be basically, "You guys are talented, here are a few plays, go use your talent," then at least have your best players attack the basket and get to the line if they aren't hitting shots.

I thought last year some of that was covered up by talent and some by getting points in transition off of turnovers, which we didn't do as much of this year.

The question is, what are the chances that Boeheim actually adapts and changes either of these things? He's gone 7 deep forever, and it's caused issues before, but he's never modified that. Likewise, he has seen our offense look stagnant the last couple of years. Surely, he's smart enough to know these are issues he could address, right?
 
Nope - his commitment to a system is his largest strength... and at times it is a weakness in individual games. He will not change - taking the good and bad we would not have the long term success without the steadfast commitment.
 
jncuse said:
Nope - his commitment to a system is his largest strength... and at times it is a weakness in individual games. He will not change - taking the good and bad we would not have the long term success without the steadfast commitment.
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What does playing 7 instead of say 8 do to make Syracuse more successful in the long run? What offensive system does he have steadfast commitment to and why would tweaking it hurt SU's success in the future?

If the answer is "Well, JB is stubborn and this is what he does and it's been better than 95% of programs," then okay, that's fair. But, if the answer is we wouldn't have our level of success if he tweaked it, why not?
 
Jim Boeheim is Syracuse basketball, and we have been a top program for a long time. However, 1 ring for the all the talent has recruited really is frustrating.

We win a lot of games, but he is stubborn and won't change. I respect the man to death, but he is like me in that we are thin skinned vindictive people whenever we are questioned and don't take constructive criticism well. The lack of change has costed this team several chances I mean we have overachieved only a couple of times recently. 2013 Final Four, 2004 Sweet 16, 2003 National Championship. The rest of our dismissals since 2003 have been frustrating as heck. If we lose in our Orange jerseys I am less frustrated than if we lose in our white jerseys.

However, this season our flaws were obvious and we saw very little change. Our defense is elite, but our offense is what you described okay gentleman here is the ball use your talent and score. I mean I remember Scoop having that alley oop play with Fab, or Kris Joseph and Scoop having a play. I don't know what the hell our offensive philosophy is, but whatever it is if the opponent puts a tough defensive effort it can stymie our offense.
 
JB isn't an offensive coach. I get killed for saying that, but it's true.
 
Might it be prudent to tweak a few things after 40 years of success? Maybe.
Will he do so to attempt to achieve even greater success like more NC's & FF's? Unlikely.
So, to answer the OP... NO, not realistic at all.
 
Really? Another thread asking if JB will change his process and his system? Don't hold your breath. Boeheim's basketball plan is essentially an algorithm. If "A" then "B", if "A" and "B" then "C", etc., etc.. And, he has developed and tweaked his algorithm over the past 4 decades. There's always those that want to question and second-guess him, after the fact, and ignore the 75% success rate that he, the team and all of us fans have enjoyed. I admit that I get frustrated with the inflexibility at times and that's why I'm excited to see how things will unfold with Hop once JB steps down. But, make no mistake about it, the rise to the national scene and yearly relevance of SU basketball is the direct result of JB's dedication to the sport and his philosophy of how to play the game. There's no changing his style or his mentality, like it or not.
 
This question has been asked almost every year since the Richmond loss. What level of success for the program will satisfy the fan base? The overall record when I look at by itself can't be questioned. When I look at the teams we've had and the manner in which we have lost some very big games over the years, I tend to be less satisfied. I think SU has become more system-oriented in the last 5-6 years in recruiting and playing style and I think it is to our detriment.
 
GardenOrange said:
This question has been asked almost every year since the Richmond loss. What level of success for the program will satisfy the fan base? The overall record when I look at by itself can't be questioned. When I look at the teams we've had and the manner in which we have lost some very big games over the years, I tend to be less satisfied. I think SU has become more system-oriented in the last 5-6 years in recruiting and playing style and I think it is to our detriment.
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The fan base is split bteween the glass half empty and glass half full crowds. JAB set the bar high for himself and the program with the success. I don't like when people try to be content and downplay post season success. All those wins in a power conference, all the years, and all that talent. One FF a decade and one championship (thanks Melo) makes a lot of people frustrated when it comes down to it. And I'm sure deep down it frustrates him as well. Obviously the program doesn't even get to this level without JAB, but the expectations have been set high by his success. Absent 2003 we can never just close the deal. I've seen too many What losses in the tourney for my liking. I don't care if other programs have had them as well (because they have). But I can go back to 80s and just be mortified at some of these tourney losses to lesser opponents.
 
To me it's not about the level of success not being satisfactory, it's whether or not this program is reaching the heights it could and is doing everything possible to reach them. I'm a big fan of the Chip Kelly mantra - he doesn't do anything because that's the way it's always been done, he asks why and improves everything possible.

So, why is a 7-man rotation always the answer? Some years it's necessary, many it is not.

Why can't there be more of an offensive identity?

Why can't they come out of the zone 10% of the time to throw a curve ball? Or press 10% of the time in his 1-2-1-1 press? I'm a big proponent of the 2-3 zone when he has the right players for it, but is it in the best interest of the team to run it 100% of the time or would 80-90% be better?

These are the types of things I'd like to think JB asks himself after every season - any coach should. I just don't think he does. Ultimately, we're better off with him and his flaws than any alternative... I'd just like to see him adapt and improve a little, not a ton, just a bit.
 
doc05 said:
The fan base is split bteween the glass half empty and glass half full crowds. JAB set the bar high for himself and the program with the success. I don't like when people try to be content and downplay post season success. All those wins in a power conference, all the years, and all that talent. One FF a decade and one championship (thanks Melo) makes a lot of people frustrated when it comes down to it. And I'm sure deep down it frustrates him as well. Obviously the program doesn't even get to this level without JAB, but the expectations have been set high by his success. Absent 2003 we can never just close the deal. I've seen too many What losses in the tourney for my liking. I don't care if other programvesupporteds have had them as well (because they have). But I can go back to 80s and just be mortified at some of these tourney losses to lesser opponents.
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I think all real fans who have supported the team and coach thru the 80's and 90's thought that at some point Beohiem and the Orange would have a thunder run. Like a 5 year period where the program was hyper-dominant , it is now obvious that is not going to happen.
 
cap2nine said:
Really? Another thread asking if JB will change his process and his system? Don't hold your breath. Boeheim's basketball plan is essentially an algorithm. If "A" then "B", if "A" and "B" then "C", etc., etc.. And, he has developed and tweaked his algorithm over the past 4 decades. There's always those that want to question and second-guess him, after the fact, and ignore the 75% success rate that he, the team and all of us fans have enjoyed. I admit that I get frustrated with the inflexibility at times and that's why I'm excited to see how things will unfold with Hop once JB steps down. But, make no mistake about it, the rise to the national scene and yearly relevance of SU basketball is the direct result of JB's dedication to the sport and his philosophy of how to play the game. There's no changing his style or his mentality, like it or not.
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To be fair, how does it usually go when anybody first-guesses him before the fact; like after a miracle win vs NC St?

I'll give you the cliff notes:
"HEY SCROOGE WE WON IDIOT!"
"26-0!"
"Did you not see [insert another good team] lose or almost lose? They must suck too!".
"Good teams find a way to win close games!".
"Go root for Uconn!".
"Will you ever be happy?".
 
CousCuse said:
I think all real fans who have supported the team and coach thru the 80's and 90's thought that at some point Beohiem and the Orange would have a thunder run. Like a 5 year period where the program was hyper-dominant , it is now obvious that is not going to happen.
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These last five years have been pretty close to dominant. The problem is that they just whet the appetite.
 
I don't think Boeheim needs to change a thing... He has won a National Championship, has led the Orange to many conference championships, and has been a perennial power for roughly 30 years... Sometimes there are just extenuating circumstances that not even a coach of his caliber can overcome... shooting woes, injuries, lack of discipline, NBA one and done'ers... I think he stays the course, rightfully so...
 
cuseguy said:
JB isn't an offensive coach. I get killed for saying that, but it's true.
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This is so hilarious. For years, JB was considered an offensive coach. Because of the zone, he's now considered a defensive coach.

I think the players had a lot more to do with our team being offensively challenged than our system.
 
OrangeAl said:
These last five years have been pretty close to dominant. The problem is that they just whet the appetite.
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Can a 70 year old guy drive his team to win a championship , hard to imagine it .
 
RF2044 said:
This is so hilarious. For years, JB was considered an offensive coach. Because of the zone, he's now considered a defensive coach.

I think the players had a lot more to do with our team being offensively challenged than our system.
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Who recruits the players and is responsible for developing them? After all they are high school kids when they get here.

How is it possible that a selector school like Syracuse has one person on the team who is considered a "shooter"? How is it possible that 3 MickeyD AA big men couldn't contribute to the offense at all? How is it possible that we have been offensively challenged for all but one year since the Dynasty era? Yes we have been good at efficiency stats but I would argue our run outs from turn overs and Dion saving our asses mask how bad our offense has been lately. This isn't a one year thing... it's a trend that has been going on since the title with the exception being Johnny Flynn and the amazing 2010 season where the chemistry was just right. What's the common trend since the title? We have been playing pretty much exclusively zone and our coach has won many accolades from it and rightfully so. But we have no game plan on offense but the Melo iso plays which only work with Melo, the screens to free up a shooter which only work if you have shooters, and run outs off of our D which only work if you have a point guard who likes to push pace and is good in the open court. Our offensive game plan frankly stinks and if this were football the OC would be fired for it.
 
CousCuse said:
Can a 70 year old guy drive his team to win a championship , hard to imagine it .
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Can a 70 year old black guy drive his team to win a championship , hard to imagine it .
Can a 70 year old gay guy drive his team to win a championship , hard to imagine it .
Can a 70 year old Jewish guy drive his team to win a championship , hard to imagine it .
Can a 70 year old Pollock guy drive his team to win a championship , hard to imagine it .

Ok Archie Bunker, we get it.. :rolleyes:
 
CousCuse said:
Can a 70 year old guy drive his team to win a championship , hard to imagine it .
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One of the most ignorant questions I have ever seen posted on this board; and that's saying a lot.
 
The only hope for change is with Hopkins but risk is obviously much higher.
 
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