Is it safe?

[llandz]

I am picking and choosing what I am reading on here right now. The poster who thought BJ was leaving was pretty funny when I posted that his father posts and seems to be a huge supporter of our program. Then BJs father came on and said that the poster's guess was wrong. The poster or someone else then still questioned it, and BJs father said trust me I have very good sources that tell me that BJ will be back next year. I was cracking up.
We had a nice thread during today's women's game. And we all thought they did a really good job with Brittney out. They fought hard.
Most of the other threads I have not read.
Of course we would like to be going to the sweet 16 and I was upset for a day. If I read all of these threads they may keep me on the edge of the cliff. I'm already onto next year football and basketball. Which bowl game, and will we ever go 25-0 again!!!

 

[bevosu]

I like reading everybody's opinion pro and con. Nothing wrong with thoughtful criticism of a team's performance. Harsh comments about an individual player are not needed and reflect poorly on the poster(s).

I never "expect" us to win every game or play perfectly every game. I'm a fan and I 'hope' we win every game and I 'hope' we win the nation championship every year, but I don't expect to.

There are more important things in life whether we want to think so or not...like a couple of days after we exit the madness one of our best and most respected posters is having surgery later today. The outcome of that is much more important than a college basketball game.

 

[CaptainJ]

I did delete one over the top thread. I also deleted some posts within a thread where some wondered whether one of our players (not Cooney) was point shaving.

I hadnt considered that. It wouldnt happen to be Scoop Jardine would it? Or just someone who shot FTs like him? How hard is it to actually get caught point shaving, btw?

About said deletions, were they soley being mean spirited or was it something a thinking person could consider? Obviously I missed the main meltdown as I had all season for one reason or another.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I'll never condone personally attacking an athlete, amateur or professional. They are all human and have off days just like the rest of us. At the same time, to gloss everything over because we don't want to offend someone's parents defeats the very purpose of this message board and all others. It's not a big secret that Cooney struggled once we hit conference play, and fans discussing it is totally understandable. If you're a parent of a player and choose to visit message boards, you'd better have some thick skin. That's just the reality of the situation.

Discussion is one thing...trashing a kid is a completely different, and frankly unacceptable, thing...I think Trevor's parents are showing real restraint. If it were my son, I don't think I'd be able to not call some of these people out for their pretty vicious attacks...

 

[Millhouse]

There are more roster spots than guys who get minutes. Someone has to be on the bench next year. Usually those kids have parents. I want some other great kid with great parents to get a chance to shoot a lot

 

[Dave85]

The team and the players deserve a little criticism. I would hope the moderators would restrain from deleting threads and posts because of religious like preferences to Orange fandom. People would not be posting if they did not care. Even if you disagree with their opinions, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticisms.

 

[Dave85]

Discussion is one thing...trashing a kid is a completely different, and frankly unacceptable, thing...I think Trevor's parents are showing real restraint. If it were my son, I don't think I'd be able to not call some of these people out for their pretty vicious attacks...

The facts speak for themselves. It's not a personal attack if the numbers support the criticism. I've heard lots of time how some players shoot lights out in practice. Some 3-star players are very successful at this level. Some players have become nationally recognized. But with a high profile program like Syracuse I don't think any player should be immune to criticism.

I was wondering if a player like Paterson who was just okay in practice but maybe shot a lot better during games when he was under pressure. But we really didn't get to test that theory this season. But still, I think have more criticism of the coaching staff for not having a better set of plays on offensive for the entire team. Our offense this year was very predictable.

 

[sandman525]

The team and the players deserve a little criticism. I would hope the moderators would restrain from deleting threads and posts because of religious like preferences to Orange fandom. People would not be posting if they did not care. Even if you disagree with their opinions, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticisms.

The problem is not that people critique or even criticize a player's performance on the court. It's the vitriol and the hate that is often spewed at a player because of that poor performance. I get as upset as anyone when I watch Syracuse lose, pounding the floor and yelling at times. But that doesn't mean I should come on this board and rant and rave about how this player stinks or that player should transfer. We all need to have a little more restraint from time to time.

 

[Millhouse]

The problem is not that people critique or even criticize a player's performance on the court. It's the vitriol and the hate that is often spewed at a player because of that poor performance. I get as upset as anyone when I watch Syracuse lose, pounding the floor and yelling at times. But that doesn't mean I should come on this board and rant and rave about how this player stinks or that player should transfer. We all need to have a little more restraint from time to time.

is anyone saying that?

streaky gunners have a role off the bench

 

[Dave85]

The problem is not that people critique or even criticize a player's performance on the court. It's the vitriol and the hate that is often spewed at a player because of that poor performance. I get as upset as anyone when I watch Syracuse lose, pounding the floor and yelling at times. But that doesn't mean I should come on this board and rant and rave about how this player stinks or that player should transfer. We all need to have a little more restraint from time to time.

The problem with all internet postings is people read the words with their own emotions and think that was the poster's intentions. I could interpret your criticism of my post as a ranting and raving full of vitriol. But I am not because I feel nothing at all right now. I am still in shock losing to Dayton and going 0-10 from 3-point range.

 

[pulaski74]

just a problem being anonymous, I'd rather they lock or delete the threads that keep saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over........

 

[sandman525]

The problem with all internet postings is people read the words with their own emotions and think that was the poster's intentions. I could interpret your criticism of my post as a ranting and raving full of vitriol. But I am not because I feel nothing at all right now. I am still in shock losing to Dayton and going 0-10 from 3-point range.

I wasn't saying that was what your were doing, so I apologize if that's the impression I gave. However, I have seen a lot of posts taking shots at players, particularly Cooney this season. Maybe you haven't seen them but I have been amazed at how some people who consider themselves huge fans can attack a player like they do, especially a kid who works his butt off. I'm not going to pretend I didn't get upset at all the missed shots and scream at the TV, but I don't understand why people would take to this board to trash a player.

 

[sandman525]

is anyone saying that?

streaky gunners have a role off the bench

I agree completely. I posted in another thread that I'd like to see Trevor in that role next season. I think he would thrive in it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The complaining about Trevor is kind of funny. Yeah he stunk Saturday, but most people didn't think he would average 8 points a game this year. Many people thought G would be starting and contributing a lot more than he did this year. By most pre-season measures, Cooney blew his projections out of the water. He improved a lot from last year. Let's hope he improves a lot more next year. That's what Syracuse players do.

Now back to Mike Gbinije who played decent Saturday. I think its fair to say that he produced a lot less than what most fans expected. I know he only played 15 minutes per game, but he still averaged only about 9 points per 40 minutes played on 38 percent shooting. Yes he outplayed Trevor Saturday, but by at least my projections he had a dissapointing season. He shot 38 percent from the field, and you can't blame that on three point shooting as less than half his shots taken were threes.

I think people burying cooney or mike are foolish. We do this all the time with all of our players. (FAB, Rautins, Nichols, Scoop) to name a few. And they always get better. To suggest someone won't get better next year is a very stupid assumption. I think you can complain about this year, but burying a player in the future makes no sense, and A LOT of people on this board do it year after year.

 

[kuethstheman]

It pisses me off that every time there are complaints about over-the-line criticism people respond with sarcasm (OK. I'll only post about puppy dogs) or misplaced outrage (It should be OK to criticize a player that misses all of his shots).

Bashing is like (lousy) art. You know it when you see it. Of course it's OK to criticize but that's not what most people are complaining about. Calling a kid that you don't know (and who gave everything he had to win a game) a headcase is out of line. Saying he stinks is grossly inaccurate and is just being mean. These aren't the "criticisms supported by the facts" that people are defending. Of course, there was worse. If you didn't say any of those things then people aren't talking about you. Don't get defensive.

 

[jvbj01]

Let's go down the list of Syracuse players who have been bashed here or the chat room.

CJ
Trevor
Christmas
BMK
Gbinje

Grant has been criticized, but I don't think I have seen any bashing.

 

[br801]

One of the most important concepts that fans seem to ignore is that:

These kids are fierce competitors...they put so much hard work in...
They do not want to miss shots, not hold rebounds, etc etc
They are trying their hardest...they want to win not lose

Nobody on the team worked harder to get open during games than TC
Unfortunately teams keyed on him and alot of his shots were hurried or off balance
He surely tried his hardest and wanted them to go but stuff happens
I am confident that next year his game will be improved and he will be able to create more shots

Anyway thank you mods for keeping this site a decent place to come and talk about the team we all love

OO44

Great post. Among the most bizarre posts on this board are the ones where some assclown claims he wants to win more than the players and is more bothered by the losses than they are.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Bashing players is always over the line, IMO, & makes no sense at all. Its like the overzealous parent who goes to their kid's Little League game and shows his rear-end by yelling and screaming, embarrassing himself and his family.
I try to reserve my criticism for JB- and I make a conscious attempt to be practical about that criticism.
For example, we've had a number of threads that talk about JB not being a good coach on offense, or how the 2-3 zone is limited by blablablablah. Evidence from as recently as last year has tended to prove those assertions wrong. JB is a great offensive coach, always has been.
Personally, IMHO, JB is too restrictive w/ his bench and is therefore always at risk for one injury totally derailing a season. He sticks to his rotations stubbornly, and often has to be dragged kicking and screaming to give players a legit chance to gain experience for the long haul. Nowhere am I saying he's not a GREAT HC, or he doesn't know what he's doing- after all, he's the HOF'er who's won a billion games, not I.
However, the bench "issue" is a fair criticism, IMO, since its reserved for the architect/adult of this program & is in no way simply
"bashing" JB. JMHO

 

[swish7]

On one level, I despise these threads. Always have. On another level, for whatever reason, this one in particular peeled away the onion as to our true intentions. And by 'our', I mean the two posting camps (Pollys/Bronys and 'Neigh'sayers (ha)).

You spend a few days being in this small group of people who don't hide from the board after a loss. You contribute. In some posts you vent a little, or a lot (only in the chat, which does not count, in any reasonable person's opinion). And in others, you put a lot of analysis into what you're saying. And then you read a generic criticism about the state of the board, and "are they gone?", "is it safe?", and you just assume it is about you, or any of the people criticizing anything. And you assume the person is PMing the admins, or has in the past. And the admin makes statements expressing generic agreement with that crowd. And you read today people supporting this group using salacious words like, well, "salacious", "vitriol", "trashing", "vicious", "spewed", etc, and it just all feels so stupid. Those are STRONG words. Words a Karl Rove might use when he wants to win an argument through fallacy. Nobody but one or two outliers are doing that. And, that has always been the case.

But, as we are learning today, maybe intentions differ? Maybe they differ in both camps? Maybe the generic brony post was from someone who was just set off by one thing in particular, or has not recovered from a 10-year old argument? Maybe the neighsayer is not some failed, lower-being, as often painted. Who knows? But, that is the issue I have always had (going on what? 18 years now) with generic state of the board posts.

The Neighsayers have gotten better and more fair about their neighsaying. I know I have tried. And this season in particular, there has been a lot to neighsay. There is no other way to look at it, but as a missed expectations kind of season. To ignore what actually happened this season is no bueno. To rest on our laurels, particularly the luck we had in getting Melo for 1 year, and paint this as some pom-pom rattling cause-celeb increases the guttiness of the punch.

It also seems like there is a larger, more vocal group whom have had enough with constantly being called out.

There are always going to outliers, in BOTH camps. Let's not let that ruin the experience for everyone. I know I have tried very hard to keep my business out of your cheerios.

 

[stuckinbig11]

I wouldn't come here if I were Trevor Cooney's parents (even though they used to come here a lot before they had good reason to leave), but since I know you're not a Trevor Cooney parent, I guess it's probably okay now.

I am a big enough Trevor Cooney fan to be offended as if I was his parent. I just don't understand why a guy who plays very good defense and was #2 in the ACC in steals is selected for bashing because his shots are not falling in some games and comments are made suggesting that shooting is his only role. Do these people not see the technical parts of playing the game of basketball?

 

[Millhouse]

I am a big enough Trevor Cooney fan to be offended as if I was his parent. I just don't understand why a guy who plays very good defense and was #2 in the ACC in steals is selected for bashing because his shots are not falling in some games and comments are made suggesting that shooting is his only role. Do these people not see the technical parts of playing the game of basketball?

oh yeah well i'm so offended that i could be the parent of some other guy that doesn't get to play instead!!!

 

[stuckinbig11]

oh yeah well i'm so offended that i could be the parent of some other guy that doesn't get to play instead!!!

then tell your kid to work hard at his game for two years to earn the right to play, like TC and many others before him did

 

[Cusefan0307]

oh yeah well i'm so offended that i could be the parent of some other guy that doesn't get to play instead!!!

Roberson, Johnson, and Patterson played against the cupcakes. They shot about 25 percent. They weren't the answer this year.

 

[Dave85]

I am a big enough Trevor Cooney fan to be offended as if I was his parent. I just don't understand why a guy who plays very good defense and was #2 in the ACC in steals is selected for bashing because his shots are not falling in some games and comments are made suggesting that shooting is his only role. Do these people not see the technical parts of playing the game of basketball?

Our offense looked very simple and predictable this year so I don't blame Cooney as much. I think the coaches need to come up with better offensive sets and plays. Maybe some kind of simple motion offense that forces players to move when they don't have the ball with a lot more passing.

 

[Dave85]

Roberson, Johnson, and Patterson played against the cupcakes. They shot about 25 percent. They weren't the answer this year.

Will they ever be the answer?