Is it the seniors, or the staff?

[realorange]

I hope Rak transfers. I hope Grant transfers. I hope DC and Cooney transfer, too. These guys are really good players (some of the best), not just relative to others in their class but to all of our current players. They could do great things given the chance and I would rather see them excel somewhere else than be benched here. I just don't think the current SU-Boeheim system is conducive to nurturing or development. With Rak, it seems mostly mental because he's so passive. If he was in a system that highlighted his athleticism, got him involved and allowed him to make mistakes, he could absolutely be a top pick.

How little did Rak play during the regular season last year only to do quite well during the tournament when Boeheim did not have the option to yank him? He was clearly able to play, but Boeheim chose to limit his time. People talk about Fab's ineligibility as the cause of our short run, but I think it's really Rak's limited experience pre-NCAA tournament that really did us in. If he had been playing 20 minutes a game during the Big East (instead of his measly 8.9) we probably could have gotten past THE Ohio State. I feel bad for Rak, such a nice kid.

IF that is the correct scenario regarding Rak, why hasn't he produced more this year with considerable playing time?

 

[timkay99]

Everybody here defending the staff. No doubt the players have something to do with it but I site the following shortcomings of the staff as well:

1. Stupid cameo starts by DC2 and and failure to let him play through his mistakes early in the season are confidence killers. If he had been given a solid 10 to 15 MPG early on, I believe he would have been somewhat of a force by now even if the pre-season hype would have still left something to be desired.

2. Lack of secondary defenses - yes, the Zone has been consistently good and is not the problem per se, but that doesn't mean man or press (more often) shouldn't be utilized simply to change the tempo in certain games.

3. Lack of player development - only CJ has improved in the course of the season. Major regression from Triche, James, and Jerami. Jerami in particular had found a nice role earlier, but once James came back that role disappeared...why ???? X shows flashes every few games and then reverts, why can't the staff figure out how to get solid consistent play from him.

4. No clue on how to attack zone D's. The staff should be able to figure out how to utilize guys. I don't see Jerami posting low, I don't see guards penetrating & dishing to an open big when they are in the lane. I don't see bigs moving to open spots when the penetrating guard draws the double. I don't see James at the FT line, etc.

5. The bottom line is that we win when we have superior talent, we are mediocre to out and out lousy when the opponents talent level is close to ours - if that isn't the definition of lousy coaching......what is ???

1. That is a belief. While you can fault the staff for it, it is rare for a player to develop during the season (especially bigs). Who is to say DC would be better and a stud? Plus, DC got hurt and no one really knows about his conditioning.

2. Legit concern given the slow pace of college bball these days, but defense has been fine and it isn't like more shots for the offense is a positive thing with this crew...

3. Legit concern. Although, I think part of it is frosh (Jerami) getting worn down. The frosh who have been able to contribute substantially in Big East play have man bodies.

4. Staff knows how to attack zone. Remember how teams tried to zone Cuse when Devo and Rautins were here? Players can't hit shots, so you go to a zone to make a bad jump shooting team hit jump shots.

5. Its not like Syracuse has been getting blown out. These are games where one or two plays go another way and they win.

 

[Quazzum69]

IF that is the correct scenario regarding Rak, why hasn't he produced more this year with considerable playing time?

Rak attempted 3.7 shots per game in the Big East! 3.7 shots and half of those were probably put-backs or lobs, so he's lucky if he gets two plays per game. If you think he's so bad on offense that he only deserves one or two plays a game, it's no wonder you are not completely outraged by the sh***y offensive strategy.

People love to b***h about AAU leagues, players leaving early, no fundamentals, on and on and on but what about the coach? What is his excuse for not recognizing the horrid shooting and changing his strategy? If players aren't making shots, tell them to do something else. Why can't the hall-of-famer see this and try something new, like letting your All-American touch the ball?

It's not the 1980s anymore. The Big East is dead. It's okay to move on and realize that JB is not the coach he once was.

 

[albanycuse]

Agree and to add to that, if you aren't hitting from the outside, the defense clogs the middle and CJ has to bust his butt to do what he does----when he gets the ball.

Last year the coaches were great , now they are in question because our players are stinking up the joint.

 

[anglerman]

Answer: It's the players. The same staff has put very good team on the court.

Next question.

Are you paid by the university to respond to every single criticism of JB that occurs on this board? The truth is that it is about the staff. No matter how you analyze it. He recruited the players, so if you say it's the players then its still JBs fault. The team isn't playing will so that falls squarely on the head coach. If you give him credit for the good you better do the same for the bad. So stop defending him Townie, it's his fault.

 

[bpo57]

I hope Rak transfers. I hope Grant transfers. I hope DC and Cooney transfer, too. These guys are really good players (some of the best), not just relative to others in their class but to all of our current players. They could do great things given the chance and I would rather see them excel somewhere else than be benched here. I just don't think the current SU-Boeheim system is conducive to nurturing or development. With Rak, it seems mostly mental because he's so passive. If he was in a system that highlighted his athleticism, got him involved and allowed him to make mistakes, he could absolutely be a top pick.

How little did Rak play during the regular season last year only to do quite well during the tournament when Boeheim did not have the option to yank him? He was clearly able to play, but Boeheim chose to limit his time. People talk about Fab's ineligibility as the cause of our short run, but I think it's really Rak's limited experience pre-NCAA tournament that really did us in. If he had been playing 20 minutes a game during the Big East (instead of his measly 8.9) we probably could have gotten past THE Ohio State. I feel bad for Rak, such a nice kid.

If you gave Rak 20 minutes last year in BE games then whose minutes were you taking away? We went 9-10 deep last year so that would have been a tough decision to whack somebody else's minutes. This year he has played plenty and hasn't been productive. I agree that SU could do a better job of integrating their big men but I think some here have grand expectations of what Christmas could deliver if he were more involved. Sorry to be Debbie Downer but I don't see what others see in Rak. As the old song goes- what you see is what you get.

 

[Townie72]

Are you paid by the university to respond to every single criticism of JB that occurs on this board? The truth is that it is about the staff. No matter how you analyze it. He recruited the players, so if you say it's the players then its still JBs fault. The team isn't playing will so that falls squarely on the head coach. If you give him credit for the good you better do the same for the bad. So stop defending him Townie, it's his fault.

We'll just have to disagee.

You are suggesting that JB and staff are recruiting the wrong players?

I reject your "ultimate responsibility" thesis in the short run. And your attack doesn't hold water on the long run.

 

[anglerman]

Our record last 3 yr was off charts. Without a large amount of nba talent. The staff gets pass from me. Sure can u 2nd guess sure but we can't shoot or dribble John wooden would not win with this group.

SU had 3 players drafted last year 2 in the first round and you say without a lot of NBA talent. If you count MCW there were 3 1st round NBA picks on the roster and at least one second round pick.

There was a ton of talent on that team

 

[carlschmarl2]

I'm guessing it's a combination of a few things...

Inside word has it there are pending NCAA Violations coming down soon...and at the very least an investigation into recruiting and grades/paper writing...

Word also has it that Hopkins will be leaving at the end of the season for a California coaching job...

 

[anglerman]

We'll just have to disagee.

You are suggesting that JB and staff are recruiting the wrong players?

I reject your "ultimate responsibility" thesis in the short run. And your attack doesn't hold water on the long run.

He's the coach and his team is playing poorly he has the most responsibility of any one. No matter how you look at it. It's his fault.
On the long term Townie his teams are notorious for end of the season failures. Just look at the record my friend. You can say what you want about his winning percentage but come tourney time his teams almost always disappoint. That is fact and that is his fault.

 

[Tobias Funke]

Answer: It's the players. The same staff has put very good team on the court.

Next question.

People can have good years and bad regardless of past experience. It is silly to jump to the conclusion that it solely on the players because of the past success of the staff. It may be a combination of the players and the staffs inability to connect, none of us truly know.

 

[orange79]

He's the coach and his team is playing poorly he has the most responsibility of any one. No matter how you look at it. It's his fault.
On the long term Townie his teams are notorious for end of the season failures. Just look at the record my friend. You can say what you want about his winning percentage but come tourney time his teams almost always disappoint. That is fact and that is his fault.

I guess we'll be better off when he retires - is that what you are trying to say? You do realize just how many schools would give their left n*t to have had our record over the last 35 years, right? Not sure if you are arguing that JB is not a good coach, or if you'd rather he left, or what. Everyone here knows we have had flameouts in the tournament. That shouldn't a surprise to anyone.

 

[OttoMets]

I say staff.

The player's aren't making shots that they're capable of, but who calls the defense? The substitutions? The overall strategy? Who teaches shot selection? Discipline? If JB's strategy is really to take 20+ three-pointers when we can't shoot, make less then three passes per possession and completely ignore post-play, then the players are doing a great job executing his plan. Maybe he does have a "master plan" for winning games, but I find it extremely hard to believe that the players have not been following the coach's gameplan the past dozen games. If the players are not doing what they're told by the coach for this many games, then JB has completely lost control and should probably just retire.

It's either horrible strategy by the coaches or complete disobedience by the players with no consequences (kind of like the bathrobe incident). Either way, it's on the coaches.

I think there's something to this. If the team really can't shoot, the gameplan shouldn't depend so heavily on outside shooting.

Player development is a continuing concern; the skills of too many players seem to regress. Without attending practice, I don't know if this is a player problem or a coaching problem. Probably a little of each.

 

[Townie72]

He's the coach and his team is playing poorly he has the most responsibility of any one. No matter how you look at it. It's his fault.
On the long term Townie his teams are notorious for end of the season failures. Just look at the record my friend. You can say what you want about his winning percentage but come tourney time his teams almost always disappoint. That is fact and that is his fault.

Are you actually a fan? Or just a self-appointed critique?

How many wins a season do you feel you are entitled?

 

[Townie72]

I think there's something to this. If the team really can't shoot, the gameplan shouldn't depend so heavily on outside shooting.

Player development is a continuing concern; the skills of too many players seem to regress. Without attending practice, I don't know if this is a player problem or a coaching problem. Probably a little of each.

"If the team really can't shoot, the gameplan shouldn't depend so heavily on outside shooting."

That, OttoMets, is a classic statement.

I think what you have to do is to take what your players can actually do. This teams weakness has always been the ability of the inside players, except Fair, to catch the ball and do anything with it. So that left us with outside shooting. And when that went cold, it became the disaster you saw against Georgetown.

 

[OttoMets]

"If the team really can't shoot, the gameplan shouldn't depend so heavily on outside shooting."

That, OttoMets, is a classic statement.

I think what you have to do is to take what your players can actually do. This teams weakness has always been the ability of the inside players, except Fair, to catch the ball and do anything with it. So that left us with outside shooting. And when that went cold, it became the disaster you saw against Georgetown.

People say the inside game is a weakness, but I don't see it. Fair struggled yesterday, but he's been successful more often than not. Christmas turns touches into baskets better than anyone else on the team, yet he gets fewer than five of the former.

Take what your players can actually do, indeed.

 

[Townie72]

People say the inside game is a weakness, but I don't see it. Fair struggled yesterday, but he's been successful more often than not. Christmas turns touches into baskets better than anyone else on the team, yet he gets fewer than five of the former.

Take what your players can actually do, indeed.

But Fair really isn't an inside player, Most of his shots are those leaning hooks.

And how many points does Christmas average? But maybe its because they don't want to throw the ball to him for easy baskets when its more fun to bomb away from 22 feet. That's what you seem to be suggesting.

 

[newmexicuse]

1. That is a belief. While you can fault the staff for it, it is rare for a player to develop during the season (especially bigs). Who is to say DC would be better and a stud? Plus, DC got hurt and no one really knows about his conditioning.

2. Legit concern given the slow pace of college bball these days, but defense has been fine and it isn't like more shots for the offense is a positive thing with this crew...

3. Legit concern. Although, I think part of it is frosh (Jerami) getting worn down. The frosh who have been able to contribute substantially in Big East play have man bodies.

4. Staff knows how to attack zone. Remember how teams tried to zone Cuse when Devo and Rautins were here? Players can't hit shots, so you go to a zone to make a bad jump shooting team hit jump shots.

5. Its not like Syracuse has been getting blown out. These are games where one or two plays go another way and they win.

What two plays would have enabled us to beat GTown - in either game ????

 

[Jasoncuse]

Everybody here defending the staff. No doubt the players have something to do with it but I site the following shortcomings of the staff as well:

1. Stupid cameo starts by DC2 and and failure to let him play through his mistakes early in the season are confidence killers. If he had been given a solid 10 to 15 MPG early on, I believe he would have been somewhat of a force by now even if the pre-season hype would have still left something to be desired.

2. Lack of secondary defenses - yes, the Zone has been consistently good and is not the problem per se, but that doesn't mean man or press (more often) shouldn't be utilized simply to change the tempo in certain games.

3. Lack of player development - only CJ has improved in the course of the season. Major regression from Triche, James, and Jerami. Jerami in particular had found a nice role earlier, but once James came back that role disappeared...why ???? X shows flashes every few games and then reverts, why can't the staff figure out how to get solid consistent play from him.

4. No clue on how to attack zone D's. The staff should be able to figure out how to utilize guys. I don't see Jerami posting low, I don't see guards penetrating & dishing to an open big when they are in the lane. I don't see bigs moving to open spots when the penetrating guard draws the double. I don't see James at the FT line, etc.

5. The bottom line is that we win when we have superior talent, we are mediocre to out and out lousy when the opponents talent level is close to ours - if that isn't the definition of lousy coaching......what is ???

1. Well DC was getting a ton of PT early on. He was averaging 17+ mpg heading into the BE season. Of course, he only played 9, 12 and 4 against SDSU, Ark and Temple, but had gotten a lot of time in total. He wasn't ready to play big minutes in the BE, I guess. Can't blame that on him not playing even more early on.

2. Agreed. Sometimes you have to make changes when things aren't going as expected. JB always trots the zone out until he absolutely has to make the change. In this day and age, you have to be a little creative and have to be willing to adapt and change. I wish JB would at least make some attempts to change sometimes.

3. I don't know if you can expect players to improve a ton during the year, but certainly regression shouldn't happen. Triche, MCW and Christmas have certainly taken a step back over the course of the season. I think James was pretty consistent after returning from his suspension until these past couple. His shooting percentages could be a little better, but as a 6th man, he's been solid to say the least.

Our guards are the major disappointment. The lack of strong ball handling, as well as the inability to beat a defender, finish consistently and knock down jumpers has become very apparent.

4. That's what I don't get. We simply struggle so much against a zone, which is baffling. I guess having few shooters and weaker offensive players really hurts, but come on. Stop launching crazy 3's and dribbling so much. Teams beat the zone by getting the ball to the FT line and by making quick, crisp passes. The lack of ball movement and interior movement kills us.

5. Could be, but I think our talent has been overrated all year. But yeah, when teams with similar talent (Gtown probably) are able to dictate and do what they want, it's alarming to say the least. The inability to change and adapt to your opponent is apparent to me. This team plays like they are good shooting team with dominant guards, which they aren't...


Another thing, why does it always seem to be SU teams that fall apart and regress? Why do so many other teams improve over the course of the season, while SU peaks in January, at the latest?

 

[RF2044]

Last year the coaches were great , now they are in question because our players are stinking up the joint.

Bam.

 

[OttoMets]

But Fair really isn't an inside player, Most of his shots are those leaning hooks.

And how many points does Christmas average? But maybe its because they don't want to throw the ball to him for easy baskets when its more fun to bomb away from 22 feet. That's what you seem to be suggesting.

Don't know what point you're making. How many points should Christmas average on fewer than five shots a game? What have you seen from him that suggests that he won't score more efficiently from the block than his teammates will from 22 feet away?

 

[Gabjon]

There are a lot of good points in this thread. Here are a few of my comments

1) This team is a group of role players with no go to scorer. Even CJ who is by far the best role on the team isn't a guy you can just throw the ball to and have him go get you a bucket. Everyone on this team has been scouted and exposed. James can't drive, CJ can't go right, MCW can't shoot, Triche has no go to move and is a streaky shooter at best. Rak has no post game. A team of role player can win but everybody must know their role, except their role, and excel at their role and the team must be a great passing team! This one is not.

2) When a team can't shoot the opposing team WILL NOT allow you to get the ball inside on a regular basis. Telling the team to stop shooting jumpers is like telling a baseball team to stop swing because they are in a slump. They might get a walk once or twice but they are not winning.

3) College basketball is a guard dominated league/system. We only have 3 guards! UNC turned their season around by going to a 4 guard line-up. Now Duke killed them last night because that is not a recipe for long term success, neither is having 3 guards! Remember Kris Jo handled the ball like a guard and almost never left the court last year. With 3 guards you need all of them to play well, a team will never have 2 guards play well all the time basketball doesn't work that way! Scoop, Dion and Triche all had their bad games last year but each was about to pick the other up. Cooney cannot pick up the slack for either Triche or MCW so if they are poorly there is no plan B. This is not a shot at Cooney it's just he can't play PG and was recruited more as a specialist then an all around guard. If he was shooting better would it help sure but unless he was killing it from three it wouldn't change much. Going into a season with 2 guards and a specialist is insanity IMO, and EVERYONE knew Dion was going pro last year...EVERYONE!!!

Now who is to blame? I don't find blame a useful tool but it is obviously the staffs responsibility! JB/Hop are the leaders of the staff. JB takes most of the responsibility because he has final say, but our HC in waiting is the lead recruiter and works with the bigs on a regular basis so he can't get a pass on this. Red just returned to the program and he works forwards who are the strength of the team so he gets a pass from me right now. Gmac is still young and is learning so he gets a pass for know as well.

 

[realorange]

Don't know what point you're making. How many points should Christmas average on fewer than five shots a game? What have you seen from him that suggests that he won't score more efficiently from the block than his teammates will from 22 feet away?

You are conviniently forgetting the balls thrown to him that never get a chance to be shots because he can't handle the ball or doesn't know what to do with it if he does. It's not just how many shots he gets.

 

[OttoMets]

You are conviniently forgetting the balls thrown to him that never get a chance to be shots because he can't handle the ball or doesn't know what to do with it if he does. It's not just how many shots he gets.

How many? 30 times this year at most?

Edit: Yeah, he's credited with exactly 30 turnovers this season.

I'm not conveniently forgetting anything. A handful of people on this board get a kick out of inventing myths about our players. "Rakeem's got no offensive game" becomes fact, regardless of what happens on the court.

We've seen what he can do. He scores in a variety of ways. When we pass him the ball, we're getting points more than half the time. That's not the case with any of his teammates.

 

[SoBeCuse]

There are a lot of good points in this thread. Here are a few of my comments

1) This team is a group of role players with no go to scorer. Even CJ who is by far the best role on the team isn't a guy you can just throw the ball to and have him go get you a bucket. Everyone on this team has been scouted and exposed. James can't drive, CJ can't go right, MCW can't shoot, Triche has no go to move and is a streaky shooter at best. Rak has no post game. A team of role player can win but everybody must know their role, except their role, and excel at their role and the team must be a great passing team! This one is not.

2) When a team can't shoot the opposing team WILL NOT allow you to get the ball inside on a regular basis. Telling the team to stop shooting jumpers is like telling a baseball team to stop swing because they are in a slump. They might get a walk once or twice but they are not winning.

3) College basketball is a guard dominated league/system. We only have 3 guards! UNC turned their season around by going to a 4 guard line-up. Now Duke killed them last night because that is not a recipe for long term success, neither is having 3 guards! Remember Kris Jo handled the ball like a guard and almost never left the court last year. With 3 guards you need all of them to play well, a team will never have 2 guards play well all the time basketball doesn't work that way! Scoop, Dion and Triche all had their bad games last year but each was about to pick the other up. Cooney cannot pick up the slack for either Triche or MCW so if they are poorly there is no plan B. This is not a shot at Cooney it's just he can't play PG and was recruited more as a specialist then an all around guard. If he was shooting better would it help sure but unless he was killing it from three it wouldn't change much. Going into a season with 2 guards and a specialist is insanity IMO, and EVERYONE knew Dion was going pro last year...EVERYONE!!!

Now who is to blame? I don't find blame a useful tool but it is obviously the staffs responsibility! JB/Hop are the leaders of the staff. JB takes most of the responsibility because he has final say, but our HC in waiting is the lead recruiter and works with the bigs on a regular basis so he can't get a pass on this. Red just returned to the program and he works forwards who are the strength of the team so he gets a pass from me right now. Gmac is still young and is learning so he gets a pass for know as well.

I agree with much of this. First time getting to the board after that debacle yesterday. A thread after DePaul was debating the talent on this team. If it wasn't clear then it sure is clear now. There just isn't much, imo. They are a bunch of role players mostly and I thought this months ago. I don't care what the recruiting rankings were. Talent means you shoot well. Talent translates into good offensive execution. We cannot do anything against a good defense, period. I couldn't believe MCW turned it over AGAIN with that jump in air- 180- pass backwards stunt. Now, some blame probably has to be on the coaching staff although it is hard to say. The sets we run vs zone especially are . Georgetown had some really great sets. Maybe there are good strategies being implemented in practice and they can't grasp anything? I don't know. It is hard to watch. Never seen anything like it. I absolutely think we could be on the 7 or 8/9 line if we go one and done in NYC. Our quality wins really aren't impressive. Frankly, I would like an 8 for a chance to play a #1. Then again, this team is probably broken mentally.