Is recruiting the reason for the OL struggles?

[SU94]

Your job is to have enough OL ready to put a serviceable line on the field REGARDLESS of injuries, disqualifications, etc. etc. If you haven't done that, you haven't done your job.

Yes, thank you. Because context means nothing in 2020.

 

[AngryOtto]

Babers recruited, in order:

2016
Heckel - medically disqualified
Servais RSr
Liam OSullivan - medically disqualified
Mike Clark - medically disqualified

2017
Dakota Davis - out with injury RJr
Pat Davis Sr -
Tyrone Sampson - punted

2019
Qadir White RSo
Carolos Vettorello RSo
Will Froumy RSo

2019
Anthony Red RFr - out with injury
Matt Bergeron So
Darius Tisdale RJr

2020
Garth Barclay Fr
Josh llaoa Fr
Mark Petry Fr

*the medical DQs we haven't quite recovered from yet.

2021 current commits
Austyn Kauhi
Wes Hoeh
Kalan Ellis
Tyler Magnuson
Enrique Cruz

Did not include Sampson in my numbers.

 

[orangepassion]

Yes, thank you. Because context means nothing in 2020.

What about 2019?

 

[OrangeinBoston]

Yes, thank you. Because context means nothing in 2020.

Context is irrelevant because injuries, disqualifications, etc ALWAYS happen. You can count on them happening last year, this year, next year and the year after that. Plan accordingly.

 

[AngryOtto]

just like when the question is asked about what is wrong with our offense, the answer has multiple parts. same when you break it down to the OL, which is medical DQs, busts, not enough OL brought in overall to counter what ended up happening with all the DQs, coaching. a myriad of problems.

I agree there is usually a number of factors. I did the breakdown because I hear that recruiting seems to be a primary factor, so I wanted to check the numbers.

 

[Nick44]

Injuries and depth, in that order.

And the depth is beginning to improve, and will be even more improved in another year or 2, with the talent stocked in the pipeline from classes of 2020 and 2021.

Right, but it’s year 5. At some point you have to point at the recruiting inefficiencies in past several seasons that have gotten us to this point.

Injuries, Recruiting Misses, Depth, in that order.

 

[orangepassion]

I would say in terms of offer lists, I believe our OL has been less than other positions

 

[RandomGuy]

Context is irrelevant because injuries, disqualifications, etc ALWAYS happen. You can count on them happening last year, this year, next year and the year after that. Plan accordingly.

Yes, they do. Having 60% of your linemen (non frosh) injured at the start of the season seems crazy, though. Is that some kind of record? (Not having 5)

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Your job is to have enough OL ready to put a serviceable line on the field REGARDLESS of injuries, disqualifications, etc. etc. If you haven't done that, you haven't done your job.

You're only allowed 85 scholarship players.

We have 13 OL guys on scholarship (not counting Elmore). How many do you think a D1 school should carry to account for injuries, illnesses, etc...?

20?

25?

Maybe we should only carry 2-3 QB's? Maybe only 7-8 WR's instead of 12? Maybe only 8 DB's?

Since you have it all figured out, tell us what the proper numbers are.

 

[Consigliere]

OL play really depends on cohesive interaction between a five man unit. Individual ability is a prerequisite, but the unit only excels when the five understand not only individual assignments, but the roles of each man in the group. Offensive line started to show some promise the last third of 2019. Inserting Bergeron, moving Servais to his natural position and having Vetterello capably man the center position had a substantial affect. Played very well against Duke and generally solid against Wake.

Coming into this year, with 4 of 5 starters returning and the probable addition of a former 4 star who started 8 games at an SEC power there was reason for optimism. Now look at the roster at guard. Presumed starters, Bleich and D. Davis have not seen the field. Presumed backup P. Davis missed all of one game and part of the other. Promising depth piece, Red moved to guard and has not dressed and the highest pedigree guy, White has gone from second team on the spring depth chart to not even traveling in the fall. Essentially Tisdale is the only member of the presumed three deep at guard to dress for both games.
No question the line play has been atrocious, but let’s get through this week, get a couple of bodies back after the bye and wait for the body to be cold before we finish the post mortem

 

[JKinPhilly]

You're only allowed 85 scholarship players.

We have 13 OL guys on scholarship (not counting Elmore). How many do you think a D1 school should carry to account for injuries, illnesses, etc...?

20?

25?

Maybe we should only carry 2-3 QB's? Maybe only 7-8 WR's instead of 12? Maybe only 8 DB's?

Since you have it all figured out, tell us what the proper numbers are.

exactly...recruit 10 OL every year then listen to people complain about lack of depth at other positions and the numbers of transfers we see.

 

[orangepassion]

You're only allowed 85 scholarship players.

We have 13 OL guys on scholarship (not counting Elmore). How many do you think a D1 school should carry to account for injuries, illnesses, etc...?

20?

25?

Maybe we should only carry 2-3 QB's? Maybe only 7-8 WR's instead of 12? Maybe only 8 DB's?

Since you have it all figured out, tell us what the proper numbers are.

I'd like to bring in 4 every class-am good w/ the 5 we're bringing in the upcoming class.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I'd like to bring in at least 4 every class

We have 5 on the books for 2021. And counting...

 

[upperdeck]

if you bring in 4x4x4x4x4 thats 20 but you also know 1 out of 10 is probably gonna leave/get hurt/etc.. there is your 18.. Had the transfer panned out alot of the issues go away, you cant plan option a b c d all failing.. Look at Ala a couple yrs ago they had no Dline dudes left and struggled with depth issues..

 

[orangepassion]

We have 5 on the books for 2021. And counting...

Am happy w/ that. Wish we started doing that a few years ago. We have to get good guys, too.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Am happy w/ that. Wish we started doing that a few years ago. We have to get good guys, too.

15 would be an optimal number. Or 10 guys who promise never to get hurt for 4 years.

 

[orangepassion]

if you bring in 4x4x4x4x4 thats 20 but you also know 1 out of 10 is probably gonna leave/get hurt/etc.. there is your 18.. Had the transfer panned out alot of the issues go away, you cant plan option a b c d all failing.. Look at Ala a couple yrs ago they had no Dline dudes left and struggled with depth issues..

In a 4-year cycle, 4 a class would be 16. Think that's a solid number. Don't forget, unlike other positions, these guys are rarely helping for the 1st year or two, so you're mostly relying on the older guys. That has to be factored in.

 

[SuFTW]

In a 4-year cycle, 4 a class would be 16. Think that's a solid number. Don't forget, unlike other positions, these guys are rarely helping for the 1st year or two, so you're mostly relying on the older guys. That has to be factored in.

Many line players redshirt.

 

[RandomGuy]

OL play really depends on cohesive interaction between a five man unit. Individual ability is a prerequisite, but the unit only excels when the five understand not only individual assignments, but the roles of each man in the group. Offensive line started to show some promise the last third of 2019. Inserting Bergeron, moving Servais to his natural position and having Vetterello capably man the center position had a substantial affect. Played very well against Duke and generally solid against Wake.

Coming into this year, with 4 of 5 starters returning and the probable addition of a former 4 star who started 8 games at an SEC power there was reason for optimism. Now look at the roster at guard. Presumed starters, Bleich and D. Davis have not seen the field. Presumed backup P. Davis missed all of one game and part of the other. Promising depth piece, Red moved to guard and has not dressed and the highest pedigree guy, White has gone from second team on the spring depth chart to not even traveling in the fall. Essentially Tisdale is the only member of the presumed three deep at guard to dress for both games.
No question the line play has been atrocious, but let’s get through this week, get a couple of bodies back after the bye and wait for the body to be cold before we finish the post mortem

I believe Red is still at T. Injured
White wasn't on the spring 2 deep. Injured

 

[RF2044]

Right, but it’s year 5. At some point you have to point at the recruiting inefficiencies in past several seasons that have gotten us to this point.

Injuries, Recruiting Misses, Depth, in that order.

this isn't basketball, where immediate fixes can come in and make a huge impact. Especially on the offensive line. The type of recruits we get typically take two to three years to get where they need to be. There are exceptions of course. But by and large, that's how it rolls for us.

So when we have a significant portion of the first two classes disqualified or injured, it has a huge impact. Check out the way Phat laid it out above, and think about the implications.

I also put zero stock in anyone saying, let's just go get some juicos. this has to be an internal build / development / adequate depth progression. And because of the attrition from the first few classes, building that depth is behind schedule.

 

[upperdeck]

In a 4-year cycle, 4 a class would be 16. Think that's a solid number. Don't forget, unlike other positions, these guys are rarely helping for the 1st year or two, so you're mostly relying on the older guys. That has to be factored in.

which is why 5 yr cycle so you can RS the first yr and with the new 4 games rules you could get any of them into a game or 2 in a pinch or just to see the field.

 

[Steelerswan]

If what you say is true, and I do not know because there seems to me to be a pretty big difference, then is our OL coaching much worse or do we have a significant difference in injuries? Seems to me our OL is much worse for two years running, and for whatever reason that is not sustainable.

I think it's a slam dunk , the coaching just isn't there. I know cavanagh is a good guy and going through stuff, but there isn't much discipline or technique on the OL. Heck , Servais was getting blown by on Saturday.

 

[Steelerswan]

this isn't basketball, where immediate fixes can come in and make a huge impact. Especially on the offensive line. The type of recruits we get typically take two to three years to get where they need to be. There are exceptions of course. But by and large, that's how it rolls for us.

So when we have a significant portion of the first two classes disqualified or injured, it has a huge impact. Check out the way Phat laid it out above, and think about the implications.

I also put zero stock in anyone saying, let's just go get some juicos. this has to be an internal build / development / adequate depth progression. And because of the attrition from the first few classes, building that depth is behind schedule.

Agree, the jucos at OL and wr have been a bandaid that when ripped off have led to more bleeding.

 

[AngryOtto]

I feel the staff should have taken another juco and another immediate eligible transfer or two in the last class. It was clear Heckel was not coming back. They had lost Horan to a medical issue. Bleich was not a guarantee to get immediate eligibility. Several other guys had been medically disqualified from the previous classes. They needed to bring in older bigger players with experience. They brought in petry from the juco but he was 6’5 265 with limited playing experience. There were a number of players that were grad transfers in the portal that could have really helped the team this year.

 

[Cusefan78]

Injuries and depth, in that order.

And the depth is beginning to improve, and will be even more improved in another year or 2, with the talent stocked in the pipeline from classes of 2020 and 2021.

The next year we will be good quote is laughable after it’s been repeated for 20 years. This cycle will never stop until recruiting improves dramatically. The reason we have so many dq players is because the staff is desperate and takes flyers.