Is the proverbial shoe about to drop on college basketball royalty?

[ssbriefcase]

Is that sarcasm ?

No. I'm not talking on the government level dealings. What they've done so far, is exactly what they do all the time. They'll come with an announcement of wrong doing, then they'll go back behind the bushes, build their case further, just when everyone thinks the heat dies down, and "what happened to that investigation?", then boom, out come indictments.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Please be Georgetown, please be Georgetown


Oh wait, I just read the "top" part. I misread it and thought it said sucks.

Georgetown is pretty irrelevant these days.
Please be Duke and Carolina and Kentucky and Arizona.
That's who I want to see go down.

 

[AZOrange]

Georgetown is pretty irrelevant these days.
Please be Duke and Carolina and Kentucky and Arizona.
That's who I want to see go down.

I mean UA is kinda already dinged here.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Or Bill Rapp.

Well, he's been dead for a while, so if he's paying players, that would really be something. "Zombie Booster Lands Top Recruit!".

 

[OttoMets]

Specifically the FBI investigation.

That I don't know

 

[AZOrange]

No shoe dropping...more like

 

[TinyManInside]

IF...this stuff comes out, my guess is there will be two distinct tiers of issues.

1) Schools that have staff members ACTIVELY facilitating or approving payments to players

2) schools that have played players who could be declared ineligible because of payments that were arranged without being facilitated or approved by staff members

I really believe we are not in that top tier.

Bill Self should arrange a trip to Springfield to get a photo of his name before it vanishes into thin air.

I also think they are only talking about 2-3 HOF coaches...not all of them

I agree that SU would be more likely to fall into the tier 2 category here; I do not believe that Boeheim or the staff knowingly pay players.

That said, there are A LOT of people on here who are gonna be ticked off because Duke is more than likely going to fall into tier 2 as well. I have been told by a few different people that K always has a thick layer of 'plausible deniability' between him and his players, and that all the shenanigans happen 'out of house' with the boosters acting on their own. I believe UNC operates similarly. No idea about UK.

 

[Jake]

Here's why I wouldn't worry about Rakeem:

Even if something inappropriate happened (and I'm cynical enough to think that something inappropriate happens in the recruitment of two-thirds of every decent program's recruits, if not with direct school involvement, then via intermediaries or shoe companies), this was a very long time ago. That is, before the bulk of the NCAA's investigation that led to sanctions. If the NCAA investigated as thoroughly as is assumed around these parts, and if something fishy happened with Rakeem, it's likely that this was discovered years ago.

I'm in complete agreement with Mason regarding the sweeping of the most serious dirt under the rug by mutual understanding of the school and NCAA during the pre-sanctions process. So even if something was bad here (no certainty), the NCAA probably knew about it in 2013. I don't know how they handle double-jeopardy, but I'm guessing they're not going to punish Syracuse for something that both parties agreed wouldn't be punished under an earlier round of sanctions.

Yep. I am not overly concerned about the FBI investigation.

 

[Toga]

Here's why I wouldn't worry about Rakeem:

Even if something inappropriate happened (and I'm cynical enough to think that something inappropriate happens in the recruitment of two-thirds of every decent program's recruits, if not with direct school involvement, then via intermediaries or shoe companies), this was a very long time ago. That is, before the bulk of the NCAA's investigation that led to sanctions. If the NCAA investigated as thoroughly as is assumed around these parts, and if something fishy happened with Rakeem, it's likely that this was discovered years ago.

I'm in complete agreement with Mason regarding the sweeping of the most serious dirt under the rug by mutual understanding of the school and NCAA during the pre-sanctions process. So even if something was bad here (no certainty), the NCAA probably knew about it in 2013. I don't know how they handle double-jeopardy, but I'm guessing they're not going to punish Syracuse for something that both parties agreed wouldn't be punished under an earlier round of sanctions.

I would like to discuss this in more detail with his aunt.

 

[PhatOrange]

We all know Corey Maggette got paid but Duke denied involvement.

NBA's Maggette Accepted Money from Coach

 

[Jake]

Off the top of my head, Schools that I think are going to get hit hard that aren't public:

Kansas
Western Kentucky
Seton Hall
Any team with the name "Texas" in it that isn't Texas.
Kentucky
Providence
Florida state
...

 

[TinyManInside]

Just to be clear, fans of other schools are saying the same thing .. we don't do that, coach would never, etc. Even UK fans.

However, the rot is pervasive and this is not new. The problem for the NCAA and the schools is that someone outside the family has the dirt. I'm curious as to which organization is leaking this stuff to ESPN and Thamel. Is it the NCAA to warn schools that this information is going public or is it the FBI leaking stuff to get the NCAA to take it seriously?

You also have to consider the source (Thamel). He is a snake, and low on scruples, and it would not be out of character for him to greatly exaggerate in his reporting.

 

[PhatOrange]

Just to clarify, I'm expressing my opinion only. I have ZERO first hand knowledge of anything here.

BUT, I can look at the lay of the land and surmise that we might not be at as much risk as some fear. For one thing, we've backed out of high profile recruitments of big time players we were involved with, when the demand for cash manifested [I'm looking at you, Anthony Davis]. Second, I look at the list of recruits we've landed in the last 10 years or so--let's just arbitrarily draw the line in the sand beginning with our awesome 2010 squad--and I don't really see any players that we would have legitimately funneled money to land. We sure didn't pay the likes of Scoop, Kris, Andy, Rick, or Arinze to come here. Wes was a transfer, so unlikey that he was paid. Over that entire span of time until the present, which players might fit the bill? Lydon? No. Mali--perhaps as a McD's, but unlikely. CJ, no. Maybe Fab. Maybe Dion. Not MCW. Not Cooney. Gbinije was a transfer, so again no. Rakim--doubtful. Not Ennis. Not Battle. Not Frank. Maybe McCullough. And please note that I'm not suggesting that anything illegal happened with Dion, McCullough, or anybody else -- just that looking long term, we don't have players who fit that profile for the most part. Third, if JB was doing this stuff while the NCAA is investigating our program for 8 years, I'd be shocked.

People can say, "be careful what you wish for," but honestly -- if JB was involved with this, then that's the third strike as far as I'm concerned, and he's got to go.

If not, then we legitimately don't have anything to worry about.

I'd be much more concerned if I were a Kentucky, Duke, or Kansas fan right now reading that report. Maybe add Michigan State to the list.

Again, the above represents my opinion ONLY.

Donte Green, Chris McCullough and Fab Melo would worry me the most.

But you are right, we dropped out of so many recruitments and didn't bother with others, you'd have to think we just didn't want to pay up.

 

[OttoMets]

Yep. I am not overly concerned about the FBI investigation.

Don't want to smear anyone, but Chris McCullough seems to have been surrounded by red flags for awhile.

On the whole, though, Syracuse is no dirtier than anyone and the recent NCAA investigation really seems to work in our favor now.

 

[iommi]

The NCAA dinged us mostly for crap that we reported. You guys are giving them much too much credit for being thorough. Yes, we got hammered but we did the work for them. It wouldn't surprise me if the Feds found crap the incompetent NCAA didn't. I hope you guys are right.

 

[Ryand877]

I'm concerned too, don't get me wrong, but as far as we know, isn't the investigation been limited to Adidas schools?

 

[Alsacs]

Off the top of my head, Schools that I think are going to get hit hard that aren't public:

Kansas
Western Kentucky
Seton Hall
Any team with the name "Texas" in it that isn't Texas.
Kentucky
Providence
Florida state
...

I don’t think Providence.
The rest I agree with UCLA, Louisville, Baylor or basically every Adidas school.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Arizona and Louisville have to be included, as does USC. Not sure how that isn't the case.

 

[TinyManInside]

Donte Green, Chris McCullough and Fab Melo would worry me the most.

But you are right, we dropped out of so many recruitments and didn't bother with others, you'd have to think we just didn't want to pay up.

Not wanting to pay up isn't something I'd hang my hat on here if I were any school involved in recruiting a kid who ended up taking money. The fact that a school is in the race but dropped out on a kid that most likely ended up getting paid could simply mean the price went over the cap space that the school/boosters had available.

I'm just pointing out that there is a continuum in play here, ranging from a school paying ZERO dollars to a school paying a kid $250k+. Just because school A doesn't want to shell out $250k to buy the latest shiny new McDonald's All-American model doesn't mean they wouldn't shell out say $100k.

[Again, I am not saying SU pays players. I don't believe they do. I'm just pointing out that this stuff isn't so cut and dry.]

 

[TinyManInside]

I'm concerned too, don't get me wrong, but as far as we know, isn't the investigation been limited to Adidas schools?

No, there is a Nike and Under Armor component that hasn't dropped yet. Plus supposedly some other avenues. Uncle Sam wants his tax revenue.

 

[OttoMets]

I don’t think Providence.
The rest I agree with UCLA, Louisville, Baylor or basically every Adidas school.

Yeah, I hope it's not Providence. I really like Ed Cooley. Though he did turn that program around in a hurry. And I think he recruited some pretty awful characters? The two guys who assaulted the student on the street come to mind. And that Greedy kid who played really well against us but got expelled. I dunno, maybe I'm misremembering and those were Keno Davis's recruits...it's Friday and I'm tired.

 

[Jake]

Arizona and Louisville have to be included, as does USC. Not sure how that isn't the case.

Oh, absolutely, but they've already been implicated.

 

[Alsacs]

Yeah, I hope it's not Providence. I really like Ed Cooley. Though he did turn that program around in a hurry. And I think he recruited some pretty awful characters? The two guys who assaulted the student on the street come to mind. And that Greedy kid who played really well against us but got expelled. I dunno, maybe I'm misremembering and those were Keno Davis's recruits...it's Friday and I'm tired.

LOL the second I posted that I thought of Kris Dunn.

Dunn went to PC over UConn.
That guy could have been paid.

 

[721Comstock]

I'm concerned too, don't get me wrong, but as far as we know, isn't the investigation been limited to Adidas schools?

Pretty much NOBODY knew that the Adidas schools were being investigated, until after the FBI went public with it.
You think they're going to tip their hand re: Nike?
IF/WHEN the hammer comes down, that's when we all find out.

I'd be more concerned about players like Donte, Fab, or CMac, except we just got thru a decade-long colonoscopy from the NCAA, and they didn't turn up anything more than what was effectively some unpaid parking tickets and library late fees.

The only more recent player that gives me a little pause about how we got him - is DBaze.
I sincerely hope that we didn't "pull a Louisville" and continue any recruiting shenanigans while already being on probation for another set of prior violations.

Llvll AD - "They'll NEVER suspect us now!!! We just got done getting caught! We're PRE-DISASTERED!!"

 

[Toga]

Donte Green, Chris McCullough and Fab Melo would worry me the most.

But you are right, we dropped out of so many recruitments and didn't bother with others, you'd have to think we just didn't want to pay up.

Didn't Fab come from money?