Is This True?

[bnoro]

How many of those kids from the 14th ranked recruiting classes contributed to the 10-3 season besides our kicker? (who I admit DID A LOT for us)/ Cisco, Trill and ???

Or...were they the players that led us to the dud 5-7 season last year??? That 10-3 season had a senior QB that was not Dino's recruit. We also gloss over those (2) 4-8 seasons (2016 and 2017) that preceded the last winning season.

.
Signing a bevy of camp kids w/ competing MAC offers is where we've spent a lot of our recruiting capitol. We need a serious upgrade to win 1 or 2 more each year on superior talent alone within the ACC. Ok attack me...

Shafer's classes were 15th out of 14 in the ACC.

 

[Trueblue25]

Harris, N Johnson, Jarveon Howard, Devito and Kingsley Jonathan each made significant contributions that resulted in 2018 wins.

not to mention I consider Alton, Guthrie and Koda to be Dino kids too.

Sure, we benefitted tremendously from a senior Eric Dungey and a knowledgable Vet in Strickland on O.

 

[PhatOrange]

Its amazing to me that people don't understand the rebuild job that's had to take place here. It wasn't GRob bad that Marrone had to rebuild but it was close. Shaf got some good front line players but the depth was atrocious. That's what's taken so long to rebuild. The underbelly. This is the year that all the kids are his, the culture is his, everything is his and I fully expect to start seeing the results of the rebuild. It's not going to be 10-3 every year but 7-5 to 9-3 are good years here and what I think we'll start to see.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Signing a bevy of camp kids w/ competing MAC offers is where we've spent a lot of our recruiting capitol. We need a serious upgrade to win 1 or 2 more each year on superior talent alone within the ACC. Ok attack me...

It's been said a million times. Cuse doesn't have local talent to draw from. Cuse doesn't have a staggering game day experience. Cuse hasn't won consistently in 20 years. Cuse doesn't have appealing weather. Cuse doesn't have the bagmen to help pull the strings.

Excuses? Maybe. But this problem isn't a staff thing.

 

[RF2044]

Its amazing to me that people don't understand the rebuild job that's had to take place here. It wasn't GRob bad that Marrone had to rebuild but it was close. Shaf got some good front line players but the depth was atrocious. That's what's taken so long to rebuild. The underbelly. This is the year that all the kids are his, the culture is his, everything is his and I fully expect to start seeing the results of the rebuilt. It's not going to be 10-3 every year but 7-5 to 9-3 are good years here and what I think we'll start to see.

Very good post.

I think the poster above makes a valid point about the back-2-back 4-8 seasons to begin Dino's tenure, but I also think that the senior QB he attributes to the success of the 10-3 season would have had a MASSIVE impact on the previous two seasons if he hadn't gotten injured. Maybe we would have squeaked into bowl eligibility one or both of those seasons. Not unreasonable.

 

[PhatOrange]

Very good post.

I think the poster above makes a valid point about the back-2-back 4-8 seasons to begin Dino's tenure, but I also think that the senior QB he attributes to the success of the 10-3 season would have had a MASSIVE impact on the previous two seasons if he hadn't gotten injured. Maybe we would have squeaked into bowl eligibility one or both of those seasons. Not unreasonable.

to add...the line here last year was as bad as I've ever seen in 30 years, almost as bad as the year Andrew Robinson got murdered under Gump and i think he was sacked 50+ times that year to. Most of that is on HCDB but still hard to fault him since there was little to no remaining Shafer OL depth and guys were lost to concussions and injuries. OL is not exactly plug and play and takes a few years to mold young guys. I think we're getting there with the line. Once the line solidifies we should take off.

 

[orangepassion]

to add...the line here last year was as bad as I've ever seen in 30 years, almost as bad as the year Andrew Robinson got murdered under Gump and i think he was sacked 50+ times that year to. Most of that is on HCDB but still hard to fault him since there was little to no remaining Shafer OL depth and guys were lost to concussions and injuries. OL is not exactly plug and play and takes a few years to mold young guys. I think we're getting there with the line. Once the line solidifies we should take off.

Don't think you can blame Shafer for the OL 4 years into Dino's tenure. I guess you can, but I don't think it is accurate.

 

[721Comstock]

Don't think you can blame Shafer for the OL 4 years into Dino's tenure. I guess you can, but I don't think it is accurate.

Well - ideally you want a lot of RS Jr’s & Sr’s your OLine.

And we had - pretty much none of those.

Shafer didn’t leave the cupboard quite bare, but the mice were going hungry.

 

[RF2044]

Well - ideally you want a lot of RS Jr’s & Sr’s your OLine.

And we had - pretty much none of those.

Shafer didn’t leave the cupboard quite bare, but the mice were going hungry.

Yeah, there definitely was no single root cause. Depth HCDFB inherited was subpar, we had an inordinate amount of injury disqualifications at OL from several members of DB's early classes, we had a highly touted recruit never set foot on campus due to his own stupidity, and have had a few in-season injuries.

Net result [amalgamated] -- subpar OL play, in 3 of the 4 seasons. The one Koda Martin--an SEC caliber multi-year starter--played / anchored the line being the exception.

 

[Nick44]

Harris, N Johnson, Jarveon Howard, Devito and Kingsley Jonathan each made significant contributions that resulted in 2018 wins.

not to mention I consider Alton, Guthrie and Koda to be Dino kids too.

Sure, we benefitted tremendously from a senior Eric Dungey and a knowledgable Vet in Strickland on O.

If we can build a team of Ryan Guthrie’s, we might win the ACC. That “2 star” transfer was an outstanding player and extremely underrated. The more diamonds in the rough that this staff can find, the better.

 

[baggerbob]

to add...the line here last year was as bad as I've ever seen in 30 years, almost as bad as the year Andrew Robinson got murdered under Gump and i think he was sacked 50+ times that year to. Most of that is on HCDB but still hard to fault him since there was little to no remaining Shafer OL depth and guys were lost to concussions and injuries. OL is not exactly plug and play and takes a few years to mold young guys. I think we're getting there with the line. Once the line solidifies we should take off.

Hopefully the doctor they have had is retired.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

In recruiting it’s not only important to raise the ceiling but to raise the floor as well.

 

[721Comstock]

In recruiting it’s not only important to raise the ceiling but to raise the floor as well.

The ceiling is the roof!! And we're getting a new, higher one!!

 

[PhatOrange]

Don't think you can blame Shafer for the OL 4 years into Dino's tenure. I guess you can, but I don't think it is accurate.

I said most of it is on HCDB, but there were underlying factors.

 

[bnoro]

Hopefully the doctor they have had is retired.

Ah, another fun slanderous board myth pops up again...

 

[AngryOtto]

I said most of it is on HCDB, but there were underlying factors.

The issue that killed the line was lack of center depth. When AS had to move back it threw the whole line off. The issue I had is that when Heckel got injured in spring ball they moved AS back to center. That would have been the best time to train a backup. Instead it occurred during the season.

 

[Cusedad2X]

Shafer's classes were 15th out of 14 in the ACC.

And the results????? I guess got him fired despite some 7 win seasons.

 

[Cusedad2X]

It's been said a million times. Cuse doesn't have local talent to draw from. Cuse doesn't have a staggering game day experience. Cuse hasn't won consistently in 20 years. Cuse doesn't have appealing weather. Cuse doesn't have the bagmen to help pull the strings.

Excuses? Maybe. But this problem isn't a staff thing.

And the Rochester kids??? Canadian kids?? NYC and Jersey??? In the recent past, it appears we have chosen to concentrate on winning recruiting battles against directional schools in Michigan...lol
This camp offer "love" that many choose to stand by as our evidence of recruiting prowess is a fallacy in my opinion. It's good for a few recruits but can't become our major recruiting victory chant.
And we did have the dome.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

And the Rochester kids??? Canadian kids?? NYC and Jersey??? In the recent past, it appears we have chosen to concentrate on winning recruiting battles against directional schools in Michigan...lol
This camp offer "love" that many choose to stand by as our evidence of recruiting prowess is a fallacy in my opinion. It's good for a few recruits but can't become our major recruiting victory chant.
And we did have the dome.

1) Syracuse is a relatively small private school, not a state school. The few high D1 kids in Upstate just don't identify with Cuse like kids in other states ID with Penn State, Ohio State, etc.
2) EVERYONE recruits NYC. There's no loyalty to Syracuse in NYC. NYC is NYC, not New York State.
3) Jersey? See #2.
4) We've been getting some of the top kids out of Canada. Bergeron, Cantin-Arku, and Richards are all among the best players in all of Canada in their respective years. Don't know what else you're expecting.
4) The Dome stopped being relevant before I was in college, and I'm 34.

If you're a HS senior from NYC or Bergen County or Rochester and you're an elite prospect, who are you going to choose? Syracuse that's been mediocre your whole life, or Penn State, Ohio State, or Notre Dame? C'mon.

You seem to think recruiting is easy and that therefore we should be able to do it well. The dumb argument that "we're beating out MAC schools" is a reflection of camp offers, trying to land guys with high potential and low profiles who can play ACC football but don't have brighter lights shining on them.

This is tired stuff put out by people who don't pay attention and haven't realized how much things have changed since 1995.

 

[Cusedad2X]

1) Syracuse is a relatively small private school, not a state school. The few high D1 kids in Upstate just don't identify with Cuse like kids in other states ID with Penn State, Ohio State, etc.
2) EVERYONE recruits NYC. There's no loyalty to Syracuse in NYC. NYC is NYC, not New York State.
3) Jersey? See #2.
4) We've been getting some of the top kids out of Canada. Bergeron, Cantin-Arku, and Richards are all among the best players in all of Canada in their respective years. Don't know what else you're expecting.
4) The Dome stopped being relevant before I was in college, and I'm 34.

If you're a HS senior from NYC or Bergen County or Rochester and you're an elite prospect, who are you going to choose? Syracuse that's been mediocre your whole life, or Penn State, Ohio State, or Notre Dame? C'mon.

You seem to think recruiting is easy and that therefore we should be able to do it well. The dumb argument that "we're beating out MAC schools" is a reflection of camp offers, trying to land guys with high potential and low profiles who can play ACC football but don't have brighter lights shining on them.

This is tired stuff put out by people who don't pay attention and haven't realized how much things have changed since 1995.

1) Winning has everyuthing to do with the identification with a school.
2 Everyone...EVERYONE recruits Florida. Yeah there are way more kids there but our backyard was the statement I referred to.
3) Jersey...see #2 ..Florida/texas/DMV.
4) see #1. Then you pitch its continued uniqueness.
Next paragraph...Who would you choose to play for??? That attitude towards recruiting has put us where we are... AND... we'll stay there.
5) If you ever played a sport...The smaller kids need to : outwork others, be smarter and stronger. The stronger probably doesn't apply to recruiting. But the others do.
6) things have certainly changed since 1995. For the better??? Than you need to change or things will stay just like they are. You may be happy with that. I personally want better. Settling has gotten us where we are.

 

[Trueblue25]

This needs to stop.

HCSS was so far over his head the program was actually becoming a laughingstock rather than just a bad program. His saving grace was that the players loved him.

Dungey’s success is not attributed to HCSS, I’ll thank Lester first if I’m forced to be all non-sensibly nostalglic.

I mean jesus look at the depth we had coming into Dino’s first year. Borderline HS size at some positions.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

1) Winning has everyuthing to do with the identification with a school.
2 Everyone...EVERYONE recruits Florida. Yeah there are way more kids there but our backyard was the statement I referred to.
3) Jersey...see #2 ..Florida/texas/DMV.
4) see #1. Then you pitch its continued uniqueness.
Next paragraph...Who would you choose to play for??? That attitude towards recruiting has put us where we are... AND... we'll stay there.
5) If you ever played a sport...The smaller kids need to : outwork others, be smarter and stronger. The stronger probably doesn't apply to recruiting. But the others do.
6) things have certainly changed since 1995. For the better??? Than you need to change or things will stay just like they are. You may be happy with that. I personally want better. Settling has gotten us where we are.

I'm giving you realities that I have learned from this message board. You're giving me meathead cliches without actionable solutions. If you want to complain about recruiting, fine. But come up with something different instead of "they should be doing better."

 

[Killdozer]

to add...the line here last year was as bad as I've ever seen in 30 years, almost as bad as the year Andrew Robinson got murdered under Gump and i think he was sacked 50+ times that year to. Most of that is on HCDB but still hard to fault him since there was little to no remaining Shafer OL depth and guys were lost to concussions and injuries. OL is not exactly plug and play and takes a few years to mold young guys. I think we're getting there with the line. Once the line solidifies we should take off.

For me personally, I believe removing Ward & Lynch will be the biggest positive impact on SU going forward. Of course players are part of the equation but the scheme on both sides of the ball was atrocious.

 

[General Joe]

Don't think you can blame Shafer for the OL 4 years into Dino's tenure. I guess you can, but I don't think it is accurate.

How do I triple like this post!

 

[PhatOrange]

And the Rochester kids??? Canadian kids?? NYC and Jersey??? In the recent past, it appears we have chosen to concentrate on winning recruiting battles against directional schools in Michigan...lol
This camp offer "love" that many choose to stand by as our evidence of recruiting prowess is a fallacy in my opinion. It's good for a few recruits but can't become our major recruiting victory chant.
And we did have the dome.

This is mostly false.