It’s Portal time!

[721Comstock]

No. Just no. Can we stop leaving out the part where Wes dominated practice during his redshirt season learning the zone making him far more ready to play than Cole and Benny will be next year? At least defensively.

And Buddy is a better shooter, but Andy did everything else better

Well, I’m not even willing to declare Buddy Buckets a “better shooter” yet -
He hasn’t broken 40% from 3 for an entire season.

Rautins hit 98 3’s at a 40.7% clip in the year in question.

I’m optimistic about next year, but the comparisons to Wes & Andy et all hafta STOP.

There is literally NOT ONE GUY on this upcoming roster I’d choose over their 2010 counterpart.
Not. One.

 

[Sherman20]

I don’t think there is a player that is taking Joe’s job. If Kadary wasn’t capable of taking it I’m not sure who does.

Kadary could have taken it and probably would have.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Well, I’m not even willing to declare Buddy Buckets a “better shooter” yet -
He hasn’t broken 40% from 3 for an entire season.

Rautins hit 98 3’s at a 40.7% clip in the year in question.

I’m optimistic about next year, but the comparisons to Wes & Andy et all hafta STOP.

There is literally NOT ONE GUY on this upcoming roster I’d choose over their 2010 counterpart.
Not. One.

Not sure why you’re comparing Rautins SR year to Buddy’s JR year. Rautins was better on defense, but I am 100% certain he was never asked to carry a team like Buddy did the last 10 games this year.

 

[Sherman20]

Let's be honest. For the level we want this team to be at, he is one of two weak links. He would be a terrific 3rd guard in a rotation. If he didn't have to play so much, and bring the ball up so much and could play off the ball, he would probably shoot 5 percent better from three.

Allen Griffin (the original) was "demoted", still remained a good teammate, still contributed, and then the following year, he was one of two leaders on a very good team. Just look at Greg Paulus. He lost his job as starting PG at Duke, but he remained an important contributor his senior year.

So, if you're saying that Joe's ego wouldn't permit that, well, then he's not being the best teammate. And if he decided to leave, would we better for it? Probably not, because we'd be losing some shooting, but we'd probably be better defensively, and could potentially have a better creator and distributor with the ball.

Joe is clearly an ACC caliber player. But he's not the guy who is going to start for an ACC champ, in my opinion. So whether we can improve our ceiling as a team by recruiting over him (as happens in so many sports, in so many places), depends on who we get, right?

I agree with all of this, Ithaca. Great post. I wish JB understood this.

 

[Cuse1055]

Well, I’m not even willing to declare Buddy Buckets a “better shooter” yet -
He hasn’t broken 40% from 3 for an entire season.

Rautins hit 98 3’s at a 40.7% clip in the year in question.

I’m optimistic about next year, but the comparisons to Wes & Andy et all hafta STOP.

There is literally NOT ONE GUY on this upcoming roster I’d choose over their 2010 counterpart.
Not. One.

The biggest question is who is next year’s Mookie?

 

[orangefog]

The biggest question is who is next year’s Mookie?

The guy who puts on 30lbs of bad weight and is the resident chucker? Hmmm...who could that be?

 

[Sherman20]

You need to add Benny to the list of coming in Tbf

And Q isn’t leaving. Or at least we can’t put him on that list yet.

 

[721Comstock]

Not sure why you’re comparing Rautins SR year to Buddy’s JR year. Rautins was better on defense, but I am 100% certain he was never asked to carry a team like Buddy did the last 10 games this year.

Because other people are comparing players to that squad.
I didn’t start it.

Andy didn’t “carry” a team like Buddy did at the end of this season -
Because he didn’t HAVE to.

He had much better teammates, all of whom could contribute on O and D.

And my point still stands - Buddy getting white hot (that’s racist? ) NBA Jam ON FIRE for 10 games, still didn’t bring his season average from 3 over 40%.

So - for the totality of a compete season, he’s still never been a better shooter than Andy was that year.
(And clearly, Andy was better at every other non-shooting aspect of basketball.)

 

[Sherman20]

An

We had four guys who played 25 plus minutes returning.

And we were a preseason top 25 team in some rankings thanks to the hype around Wes, but more in the lower half of the rankings. Instead we became a top 10 team and then in February moved to #1.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Because other people are comparing players to that squad.
I didn’t start it.

Andy didn’t “carry” a team like Buddy did at the end of this season -
Because he didn’t HAVE to.

He had much better teammates, all of whom could contribute on O and D.

And my point still stands - Buddy getting white hot (@that’s racist?@) NBA Jam ON FIRE for 10 games, still didn’t bring his season average from 3 over 40%.

So - for the totality of a compete season, he’s still never been a better shooter than Andy was that year.
(And clearly, Andy was better at every other non-shooting aspect of basketball.)

Lots of hyperbole here. Rautins shot 36% his junior year from 3 on 7.5 shots a game. Buddy shot 38% on 8 shots this year. Their 3 career 3 point percentages are identical. I am pretty certain with one more season Buddy will pass Rautins there too. Also Buddy made MORE 2 pointers this year than Rautins did his entire career. No disrespect to Andy as I loved him as a player, but as a scorer the comparison isn’t even close.

 

[OrangeDW]

Buddy is better than Rautins. Scoop is *way* better? I like what Jesse (and Sid and maybe Frank) bring defensively. Can Benny be Wes? Dunno. He’s good through. What about Swider? Torrence has been compared to Triche already.

This team will be a better shooting team and maybe better defensively at C.

Buddy is better than Rautins?? He scores more. Not sure he’s a better player. Rautins was an elite passer and defender.

I think it’s fair to say any comparisons between this team and the 2010 team(one of the best teams in school history) are completely ridiculous.

We had a different level of talent in the program back then.

I disagree with those saying we didn’t know what we had going into 2009-10. We all heard all the previous year how Wes would be the best player on the team as soon as he was eligible, and we knew Triche was really good and way underrated in HS ratings due to his knee injury.

 

[UpstateSM]

Rautins also didn't have to stop playing basketball in the middle of the season because he got a disease that shutdown the entire world

 

[Cuse1055]

An

And we were a preseason top 25 team in some rankings thanks to the hype around Wes, but more in the lower half of the rankings. Instead we became a top 10 team and then in February moved to #1.

Yep, and if Quincy comes back we’ll be a preseason top 25 team next year too. The biggest thing will be chemistry, as that 2010 team had such incredible chemistry with players knowing their roles.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yep, and if Quincy comes back we’ll be a preseason top 25 team next year too. The biggest thing will be chemistry, as that 2010 team had such incredible chemistry with players knowing their roles.

I think the biggest thing is we don’t have a top 5 pick, 2 legit double double threat post players, or phenomenal defenders at the top of the zone.

 

[Sherman20]

Kerr could be an intriguing transfer to look at. Givony is a draft expert and says this kid is one of the most promising PGs out there. If not, I’d really love us to look overseas for a big, athletic PG. Or maybe we should just convince Marek to come back and play PG for us for one season. Lol.

 

[Cuse1055]

I think the biggest thing is we don’t have a top 5 pick, 2 legit double double threat post players, or phenomenal defenders at the top of the zone.

Sadly the game has changed a lot in the last 12 years so having 2 big guys like AO and Rick doesn’t work as well. In today’s game you gotta have at least 3-4 shooters on the court at all times (thanks Golden State). And Benny may not be a top 5 pick next year but he is one of our best recruits in a while.

 

[capeorange]

Kadary could have taken it and probably would have.

Agreed. I think if Kadary had more time either a full season or stuck around for next year he would have taken it from Joe. Joe was getting pulled quicker and if Kadary wasn't injured it would have been for longer periods in a couple of games.

 

[capeorange]

The guy who puts on 30lbs of bad weight and is the resident chucker? Hmmm...who could that be?

Is this a test?!?

 

[721Comstock]

Lots of hyperbole here. Rautins shot 36% his junior year from 3 on 7.5 shots a game. Buddy shot 38% on 8 shots this year. Their 3 career 3 point percentages are identical. I am pretty certain with one more season Buddy will pass Rautins there too. Also Buddy made MORE 2 pointers this year than Rautins did his entire career. No disrespect to Andy as I loved him as a player, but as a scorer the comparison isn’t even close.

Again, slowly, and with feeling: Andy wasn't the "scorer" Buddy was (to end the season) -

BECAUSE. HE. DID. NOT. HAVE. TO. BE.

Buddy was almost literally our entire offense for multiple games in March.
Because HE HAD TO BE.
Who else was stepping up??
Griff? Q? Marek? Jesse? JoeyG?

Fine - Buddy Buckets is a better "scorer" than Andy Rautins was.
So stipulated.

I STILL would not choose him over Andy if I'm fielding a team.
And neither would anybody else - because "scoring" is only a part of what a basketball player is tasked with doing on the floor, and Andy was dramatically better at all other things beyond scoring, than Buddy will likely ever be.

 

[TheCusian]

Buddy is better than Rautins?? He scores more. Not sure he’s a better player. Rautins was an elite passer and defender.

I think it’s fair to say any comparisons between this team and the 2010 team(one of the best teams in school history) are completely ridiculous.

We had a different level of talent in the program back then.

I disagree with those saying we didn’t know what we had going into 2009-10. We all heard all the previous year how Wes would be the best player on the team as soon as he was eligible, and we knew Triche was really good and way underrated in HS ratings due to his knee injury.

I don't know - it might be more likely the lens some are viewing the program through. I agree that the 2009 prob had more going for it before their season and obviously really killed it that year. But I don't think the gap is so big to not warrant a comp.

Player 3rd year in program	Points per game	3pt %	Steals per game	Assists per game
Andy Ruatins 2008-2009	10.5	.366	1.4	3
Buddy Boeheim 2020-2021	17.8	.370	1.3	2.6

 

[Cusefan0307]

Again, slowly, and with feeling: Andy wasn't the "scorer" Buddy was (to end the season) -

BECAUSE. HE. DID. NOT. HAVE. TO. BE.

Buddy was almost literally our entire offense for multiple games in March.
Because HE HAD TO BE.
Who else was stepping up??
Griff? Q? Marek? Jesse? JoeyG?

Fine - Buddy Buckets is a better "scorer" than Andy Rautins was.
So stipulated.

I STILL would not choose him over Andy if I'm fielding a team.
And neither would anybody else - because "scoring" is only a part of what a basketball player is tasked with doing on the floor, and Andy was dramatically better at all other things beyond scoring, than Buddy will likely ever be.

We aren't going to agree and that is fine, but through their first 3 seasons Buddy has been better than Andy was his first 3 seasons whether you look at regular stats or advanced stats it does not matter. We don't have a SR year to compare to yet and for the record people trashed on Andy here too until that point.

 

[721Comstock]

We aren't going to agree and that is fine, but through their first 3 seasons Buddy has been better than Andy was his first 3 seasons whether you look at regular stats or advanced stats it does not matter. We don't have a SR year to compare to yet and for the record people trashed on Andy here too until that point.

I seriously don't GAF about fair comparisons over first 3 seasons, blah blah blah.
(see my disclaimer below)
Because that's not what this debate is about -

People started trying to compare this upcoming team, to 2010. Period.
And frankly, there is NO comparison.

Disclaimer - I agree 144% that, thru their respective careers to date, Buddy has been WAAAAAAAY better than Andy was.
I don't think anybody would debate that, because they cannot.
So stipulated.

That said, Buddy also had a LOT more opportunities over the comparable periods, because we used to have a LOT MORE TALENT across the board than we do now, so Andy had to bide his time, and didn't get nearly as much PT as Buddy has.

Might Buddy improve yet again, such that he's a better all-around player?
Of course.

But - it's doubtful that Buddy will be a better, all-around player, O and D, ball handling, playmaking, defense, steals, rebounding, leadership, etc. this next season, than Andy was in 2010.

Which, again, is what this debate (that I did not start, and am now exiting) is all about.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I seriously don't GAF about fair comparisons over first 3 seasons, blah blah blah.
(see my disclaimer below)
Because that's not what this debate is about -

People started trying to compare this upcoming team, to 2010. Period.
And frankly, there is NO comparison.

Disclaimer - I agree 144% that, thru their respective careers to date, Buddy has been WAAAAAAAY better than Andy was.
I don't think anybody would debate that, because they cannot.
So stipulated.

That said, Buddy also had a LOT more opportunities over the comparable periods, because we used to have a LOT MORE TALENT across the board than we do now, so Andy had to bide his time, and didn't get nearly as much PT as Buddy has.

Might Buddy improve yet again, such that he's a better all-around player?
Of course.

But - it's doubtful that Buddy will be a better, all-around player, O and D, ball handling, playmaking, defense, steals, rebounding, leadership, etc. this next season, than Andy was in 2010.

Which, again, is what this debate (that I did not start, and am now exiting) is all about.

Lol. Not sure why you're getting so worked up about this. We tend to overrate our former players. It's just a thing the board does. I think Buddy is going to make some preseason lists for AA and ACC. Whether he lives up to that will be told over the course of next season.

 

[OrangeDW]

Sadly the game has changed a lot in the last 12 years so having 2 big guys like AO and Rick doesn’t work as well. In today’s game you gotta have at least 3-4 shooters on the court at all times (thanks Golden State). And Benny may not be a top 5 pick next year but he is one of our best recruits in a while.

Even in 2010, we were often at our best with Wes and Joseph at forward and only one of the bigs in. What was nice is that we had 40 minutes of centers who could catch, score, rebound, defend, and bang.

I’m excited about Benny. Wes was in his 4th year of college, and had one of the all time great seasons at Syracuse(first team AA, conference player of the year), so I don’t think there’s any point in even mentioning the two in the same sentence at this point.

 

[Cuse1055]

Even in 2010, we were often at our best with Wes and Joseph at forward and only one of the bigs in. What was nice is that we had 40 minutes of centers who could catch, score, rebound, defend, and bang.

I’m excited about Benny. Wes was in his 4th year of college, and had one of the all time great seasons at Syracuse(first team AA, conference player of the year), so I don’t think there’s any point in even mentioning the two in the same sentence at this point.

At this point correct. Wes was honestly one of my favorite players of all time even though he only played one season. I will go out on a limb and say that I predict Benny will have a similar, possibly better, NBA career when all is said and done.