It Always darkest before the coming of dawm | Syracusefan.com

It Always darkest before the coming of dawm

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Myk307

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Today we saw a program in a state of transition. We are desperatley trying to upgrade our talent. Babers is doing that but it is baby steps. Dungey has been hurt so much that he doesnt even have a year under babers system yet. You saw that inexperience today. He had missed reads... by my count atleast 6 or 7. You saw a team that had 2 out of 3 phases play sub par. How many drops? muffed punt return on a fair catch... Its mostly talent and fit for system. I also think that Babers and crew are just not used to to having the Defense dictate to them with so much pressure...

I think you chalk this up to our guys having a bad game... a bunch of them did in the same week... Dungey still needs more time.. you can clearly see he mostly knows where he is going to throw the ball before the snap..and he doesnt ussually go to a second read unless he is chased 0ut of the pocket...

Babers is a good coach... he will get this fixed... BUT it may take another year or two before we see more consistency. Keep chin up guys. It will get better
 
Myk307 said:
Today we saw a program in a state of transition. We are desperatley trying to upgrade our talent. Babers is doing that but it is baby steps. Dungey has been hurt so much that he doesnt even have a year under babers system yet. You saw that inexperience today. He had missed reads... by my count atleast 6 or 7. You saw a team that had 2 out of 3 phases play sub par. How many drops? muffed punt return on a fair catch... Its mostly talent and fit for system. I also think that Babers and crew are just not used to to having the Defense dictate to them with so much pressure...

I think you chalk this up to our guys having a bad game... a bunch of them did in the same week... Dungey still needs more time.. you can clearly see he mostly knows where he is going to throw the ball before the snap..and he doesnt ussually go to a second read unless he is chased o0ut of the pocket...

Babers is a good coach... he will get this fixed... BUT it may take another year or two before we see more consistency. Keep chin up guys. It will get better
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Babers assessment was spot on. We weren't ready mentally vs the emotion/Shafer. That was in him and he took the blame.

We're lucky to have him.
 
It better start translating to wins or he is going to lose the fan base just like Shafer did.

He's not working for the same AD who hired him. Recruiting is looking up in September but I'm not sure how many of those recruits will be there in February if we have another 4-8 or God forbid an even worse season. Football is a what have you done for me lately sport.
 
Ozcuse said:
It better start translating to wins or he is going to lose the fan base just like Shafer did.

He's not working for the same AD who hired him. Recruiting is looking up in September but I'm not sure how many of those recruits will be there in February if we have another 4-8 or God forbid an even worse season. Football is a what have you done for me lately sport.
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Long season
 
we are seeing so many outside throws because Dungey is most comfortable with them... I am sure you noticed that he doesnt even look over the middle..why? because the guards are being pushed back in to him and when faced with alot of pressure on blitzes like today... he panics and plays too fast. Its inexperience... also if you look closely.. today you saw Dungey deliver the ball late a bunch.. he would wait until his receiver was turned all the way around looking at him before throwing the ball on some of his comeback routes
 
Fan base is lost This game was nail in coffin. 30+ year fans talking about packing it in.

It's not so much the loss, it's the horrid special teams play, drops and stupid personal foul penalties extending drives. Same play different coaches for last 15 years
 
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rocklloyd said:
Fan base is lose. This game was nail in coffin. 30+ year fans talking about packing it in.

It's not so much the loss, it's the horrid special teams play, drops and stupid personal foul penalties extending drives. Same play different coaches for last 15 years
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The hardcore fans are dealing with a culmination of things.. This game was the straw that broke the camels back.

I watched us lose to a mid-major due to piss poor play from our team in a half empty Dome on my iPhone while Clemson ran down the hill on my television in prime time to a packed out mega stadium with orange balloons released into the sky as they beat a ranked SEC foe.

We're not even in the the same stratosphere and while the rest of the country lives, eats and breathes football, our University and Alumnus seem to care less about it.

If they don't care, why should we?

Apathy has truly set in and it's not because of one loss.. It's because of a University that isn't willing to do what takes to field a competitive P5 program and it all came to a head yesterday evening.

If they want to earmark ACC money into a General Fund at the expense of the Football program while not getting much out of our donors, that's fine.. but don't expect the fanbase to blindly root for this program...the program that got you those ACC paychecks in the first place.
 
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longislandcuse said:
These hardcore fans you speak of are dealing with a culmination of things. This game was the straw that broke the camels back.

I watched us lose to a mid-major due to piss poor play from our team in a half empty Dome on my iPhone while Clemson ran down the hill on my television in prime time to a packed out mega stadium with orange balloons released into the sky as they beat a ranked SEC foe.

We're not even in the the same stratosphere and while the rest of the country lives, eats and breathes football, our University and Alumnus seem to care less about it.

If they don't care, why should we?

Apathy has truly set in and it's not because of one loss.. It's because of a University that isn't willing to do what takes to field a competitive P5 program and it all came to a head yesterday evening.

If they want to earmark ACC money into a General Fund at the expense of the Football program while not getting much out of our donors, that's fine.. but don't expect the fanbase to blindly root for this program...the program that got you those ACC paychecks in the first place.
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Agreed, they really have no shot to be successful at this point. It will take a miracle to field a good program tha wins consistently at Syracuse with the current approach. You can't just keep hiring new coaches, they need to change the way they look at it because clearly it's not working. Right now you have 4 baked in losses every year. I get that teams lose games like this, it happens but when your margin for a decent season is sorazor thin, this game just can't be lost because there is about a 5% chance to make a bowl game now. Not saying impossible but wow did it get that much more difficult.
 
rocklloyd said:
Fan base is lost This game was nail in coffin. 30+ year fans talking about packing it in.

It's not so much the loss, it's the horrid special teams play, drops and stupid personal foul penalties extending drives. Same play different coaches for last 15 years
Expand...
I convinced a friend to buy season tickets this year. He is absolutely regretting the decision after sitting in an empty dome for 4 hours watching that game.
 
Myk307 said:
Today we saw a program in a state of transition. We are desperatley trying to upgrade our talent. Babers is doing that but it is baby steps. Dungey has been hurt so much that he doesnt even have a year under babers system yet. You saw that inexperience today. He had missed reads... by my count atleast 6 or 7. You saw a team that had 2 out of 3 phases play sub par. How many drops? muffed punt return on a fair catch... Its mostly talent and fit for system. I also think that Babers and crew are just not used to to having the Defense dictate to them with so much pressure...

I think you chalk this up to our guys having a bad game... a bunch of them did in the same week... Dungey still needs more time.. you can clearly see he mostly knows where he is going to throw the ball before the snap..and he doesnt ussually go to a second read unless he is chased 0ut of the pocket...

Babers is a good coach... he will get this fixed... BUT it may take another year or two before we see more consistency. Keep chin up guys. It will get better
Expand...
No secret that the key is better recruiting. But, can Babers deliver? Before the addition of the JUCOs & transfers, the last class was near the bottom of the ACC. If you recruit at that level, you will play at that level.

Despite what a lot of poster say, SU now has great facilities. (I suppose some of them want Babers to deliver cash on recruiting visits.) It's now on Babers to improve recruiting. Yesterday didn't help that effort.
 
OrangeinBoston said:
No secret that the key is better recruiting. But, can Babers deliver? Before the addition of the JUCOs & transfers, the last class was near the bottom of the ACC. If you recruit at that level, you will play at that level.

Despite what a lot of poster say, SU now has great facilities. (I suppose some of them want Babers to deliver cash on recruiting visits.) It's now on Babers to improve recruiting. Yesterday didn't help that effort.
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Maybe my perception is skewed because I live in SEC Country and 45 minutes from Clemson but if you think we're truly competing in the CFB arms race, I don't know what to tell you.

We're not even close.

Nevermind the huge disadvantage we already have given our geographic location, because we will need more cash flow than others into the program to overcome that, but we don't even have enough $$$ to compete with many non-P5 teams.
 
longislandcuse said:
Maybe my perception is skewed because I live in SEC Country and 45 minutes from Clemson but if you think we're truly competing in the CFB arms race, I don't know what to tell you.

We're not even close.

Nevermind the huge disadvantage we already have given our geographic location, because we will need more cash flow than others into the program to overcome that, but we don't even have enough $$$ to compete with many non-P5 teams.
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Nonsense. If geography was a consideration, ND & Michigan would never get a recruit. Don't know how many times this statement has to be debunked.

More nonsense, if you have top notch facilities, which SU now does, what do you need the cash for? As I said, wheelbarrows of cash delivered to a recruits front door would probably catch the NCAA's eye. Unless you are Alabama or, as you say, Clemson.

Not a knock on Babers, but if Marrone had these facilities, he would have already achieved top 25+ results.
 
OrangeinBoston said:
Nonsense. If geography was a consideration, ND & Michigan would never get a recruit. Don't know how many times this statement has to be debunked.

More nonsense, if you have top notch facilities, which SU now does, what do you need the cash for? As I said, wheelbarrows of cash delivered to a recruits front door would probably catch the NCAA's eye. Unless you are Alabama or, as you say, Clemson.

Not a knock on Babers, but if Marrone had these facilities, he would have already achieved top 25+ results.
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We don't have "top notch facilities". What are you talking about?

Michigan and ND are Midwest, not Northeast. They also have money, and access to money for whatever new frills they decide they need.
 
longislandcuse said:
We don't have "top notch facilities". What are you talking about?

Michigan and ND are Midwest, not Northeast. They also have money, and access to money for whatever new frills they decide they need.
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Oh, I get it now. Being in the Northeast and having snow is a serious disadvantage, but being in nowheresville Midwest and having snow is wonderful. Glad I have it now.

"Frills" which you, and others, seem unable to define.
 
One game. The straw that broke the camels back?

C'mon.

How many games have we lost in the Babers era that we should have won? Just one. The ability to apply past coaches failures and decade administration gripes onto the current staff is a damn Syracuse fan superpower.

I'm way more bullish on Babers than I am a fanbase that can't let move on from old crap.
 
OrangeinBoston said:
Oh, I get it now. Being in the Northeast and having snow is a serious disadvantage, but being in nowheresville Midwest and having snow is wonderful. Glad I have it now.

"Frills" which you, and others, seem unable to define.
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Renovate the Dome. It's an asset for basketball but an albatross for football.

Our practice facility is ok. Not great.. it's ok.

Seriously renovate the locker rooms. Not whatever it is they recently did.

Nice housing for athletes.

Nutritionists.

I won't even get into silly things like game rooms etc.. but showing off "shiny things" works in recruiting.

I'm also not getting into the question of whether we'll pay up to retain Babers should he succeed and if we'll bring in a blue chip coach when Boeheim retires.
 
longislandcuse said:
The hardcore fans are dealing with a culmination of things.. This game was the straw that broke the camels back.

I watched us lose to a mid-major due to piss poor play from our team in a half empty Dome on my iPhone while Clemson ran down the hill on my television in prime time to a packed out mega stadium with orange balloons released into the sky as they beat a ranked SEC foe.

We're not even in the the same stratosphere and while the rest of the country lives, eats and breathes football, our University and Alumnus seem to care less about it.

If they don't care, why should we?

Apathy has truly set in and it's not because of one loss.. It's because of a University that isn't willing to do what takes to field a competitive P5 program and it all came to a head yesterday evening.

If they want to earmark ACC money into a General Fund at the expense of the Football program while not getting much out of our donors, that's fine.. but don't expect the fanbase to blindly root for this program...the program that got you those ACC paychecks in the first place.
Expand...
One thing, SU alums do care about football. They care about the NFL. Any alum under the age of, say, 35 really can't be blamed for not caring about SU football. We've been irrelevant that long.
 
Scooch said:
One thing, SU alums do care about football. They care about the NFL. Any alum under the age of, say, 35 really can't be blamed for not caring about SU football. We've been irrelevant that long.
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I'm 33. I vaguely remember us being good. I just can't believe the only major school in New York and the essence of the City of Syracuse, can't get it together in College Football.

This isn't Boston College or Rutgers where clearly the Patriots and Giants/Jets overshadow the college programs.
 
longislandcuse said:
I'm 33. I vaguely remember us being good. I just can't believe the only major school in New York and the essence of the City of Syracuse, can't get it together in College Football.

This isn't Boston College or Rutgers where clearly the Patriots and Giants/Jets overshadow the college programs.
Expand...

What's so special about NY? The state's recruiting is terrible. SU is a private school that the vast majority of residents have no connection to. The northeast has the weakest college football fandom of any region in the country, by far, and that's with Penn State fans and ND subway alums living there.

Institutionally and culturally SU has a lot more in common with the FCS schools in the northeast than P5 FBS schools in the rest of the country.

I'm not saying SU can't be good. Just that it's hard to wrangle money and interest from alums when the program has been terrible forever, the school's fundraising is lousy, and those that care about football spend their money on the NFL teams they've followed since childhood.
 
OrangeinBoston said:
Oh, I get it now. Being in the Northeast and having snow is a serious disadvantage, but being in nowheresville Midwest and having snow is wonderful. Glad I have it now.

"Frills" which you, and others, seem unable to define.
Expand...
I agree with all of the "geography" rhetoric. I get that upstate new York gets more snow than most places across the country, but I think it has more to do with the program itself and facilities.
 
Scooch said:
What's so special about NY? The state's recruiting is terrible. SU is a private school that the vast majority of residents have no connection to. The northeast has the weakest college football fandom of any region in the country, by far, and that's with Penn State fans and ND subway alums living there.

Institutionally and culturally SU has a lot more in common with the FCS schools in the northeast than P5 FBS schools in the rest of the country.

I'm not saying SU can't be good. Just that it's hard to wrangle money and interest from alums when the program has been terrible forever, the school's fundraising is lousy, and those that care about football spend their money on the NFL teams they've followed since childhood.
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I don't have any illusions that we'll be competing with FSU/Clemson etc anytime soon, if ever.

But we are in the ACC. We do have ACC money coming in. We have wealthy Alumnus. We're 4 hours from NYC.

We should be able to become a fringe Top 25 team with P5 facilities.

Right now we're a football embarrassment that's cashing an ACC check.
 
Winning is the issue. If you think Babers isn't the guy, fine.

But the truth is that we lost a highly unusual game with weird emotional crap in a very familiar way (that looked and felt like a Grob/Shafer schlitshow). It was the first of its kind under this head coach.

There are real football problems and real admin problems. But perspective is needed.
 
longislandcuse said:
I don't have any illusions that we'll be competing with FSU/Clemson etc anytime soon, if ever.

But we are in the ACC. We do have ACC money coming in. We have wealthy Alumnus. We're 4 hours from NYC.

We should be able to become a fringe Top 25 team with P5 facilities.

Right now we're a football embarrassment that's cashing an ACC check.
Expand...

We lost by 7 in a weird, unique circumstances game. I'm embarrassed by the over reaction.
 
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