I've spent way too many years pining for Scoop Jardine

[NineOneSeven]

I'd take his grandma offense every day over this "fast paced" terror were watching now. It's like a game of "how fast can you dribble out of bounds".

So would I, just making a point about this game. We haven't been effective at running the transition offense since MCW was here, and outside of that our halfcourt offense was terrible. We lived through insane defense.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I liked Ennis. Great maturity and composure like has been said. I agree a place like Wisconsin would have probably been better suited for him. He isn't a dynamic enough athlete to get off the bench in HOU but I saw him up close at the Cavs-Hou game and he looks really good. Transformed his body. Looks like a legit NBA guard now. More on that NBA game in another post.

Ennis didn't have good enough players with him as well and he could be shut down against good M2M. Hound Cooney and get up on Ennis and we were done. 25-0, lol...poof! Once the book was out on how to defend us we were done.

Good for him. Always room for PG depth in the league.

I remember during that 25-0 run (which was great, for sure) I made some posts voicing concern about how ineffective we were on offense and that somehow we were pulling out games despite it. Unsurprisingly I got pretty roasted for it. The regular season isn't like the NCAA tournament. In the tournament, sure, just find a way to win. In the regular season, how you win absolutely matters, because flaws will be exposed in those single game type eliminations. "A win is a win" is the worst phrase for NCAAB.

 

[br801]

This is nothing against Scoop, really. He was pretty good. But the guy is pushing 40 now, he wasn't so good that i should be saying MAN if only we had someone like Scoop Jardine around so many years

That's one of the stranger things I've read here lately, and that's saying something.

 

[RF2044]

I hear a lot of people saying this. I'm not sure how much it has to do with stature. I think some guys can finish and others can't. There are plenty of examples of small guys that were good finishers, Sherm was a prime example of one who came through our program. We also have the example of FH who has the stature, but can't seem to finish anything either.

Agreed. What Gillon needs to do a better job of is ensuring that he draws contact, and not finessing it up against bigger teams. Get to the line.

At CSU [different level of competition, I know], Gillon finished with either hand, through contact, etc. The capability is there. If I were JB, I'd pull his a$$ the next time he takes it to the rim and tries one of those reverse layups--make the simple play. Get past the guy, dump the ball to a teammate, or get to the line. And if you don't do one of those three things, you haven't done your job.

 

[Cusefan0307]

So would I, just making a point about this game. We haven't been effective at running the transition offense since MCW was here, and outside of that our halfcourt offense was terrible. We lived through insane defense.

Did you see Scoops video at the top of this thread? All of those fast break finishes were started on steals by Triche, Scoop and Rautins. Another reason we stink on the break is we never get steals. I get Cooney/G weren't great finishers on the break, but they were good at the stealing part. The guards now are good at neither.

 

[RF2044]

Good for him. Always room for PG depth in the league.

I remember during that 25-0 run (which was great, for sure) I made some posts voicing concern about how ineffective we were on offense and that somehow we were pulling out games despite it. Unsurprisingly I got pretty roasted for it. The regular season isn't like the NCAA tournament. In the tournament, sure, just find a way to win. In the regular season, how you win absolutely matters, because flaws will be exposed in those single game type eliminations. "A win is a win" is the worst phrase for NCAAB.

Really? I recall most people were pretty nervous about how we were winning. All of the bounces went our way for a stretch of about 10 games as we built that 25-0 record.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Did you see Scoops video at the top of this thread? All of those fast break finishes were started on steals by Triche, Scoop and Rautins. Another reason we stink on the break is we never get steals. I get Cooney/G weren't great finishers on the break, but they were good at the stealing part. The guards now are good at neither.

Agree completely. Defense up top and steals are a huge aspect of the defense that we play, and we just don't get a lot right now. G was okay on the break... not great, not terrible. Improved as the season went on imo. One of my all-time favorites. That dude literally learned a completely different position, and a hard one at that. It's amazing what he did, and hopefully more people appreciate him.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Really? I recall most people were pretty nervous about how we were winning. All of the bounces went our way for a stretch of about 10 games as we built that 25-0 record.

Wouldn't say I was alone, but I also wouldn't say "most". Semantics though, I guess. Tell you what... that Ennis buzzer beater will never leave my mind though.

 

[RF2044]

Did you see Scoops video at the top of this thread? All of those fast break finishes were started on steals by Triche, Scoop and Rautins. Another reason we stink on the break is we never get steals. I get Cooney/G weren't great finishers on the break, but they were good at the stealing part. The guards now are good at neither.

Spot on. One of the reasons we struggle to score so much is that we aren't generating turnovers from the zone like we have in recent years.

Not fun to watch when you stink offensively and stink defensively, too.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Spot on. One of the reasons we struggle to score so much is that we aren't generating turnovers from the zone like we have in recent years.

Not fun to watch when you stink offensively and stink defensively, too.

Those guys could pass to. We cannot make a simple pass when someone is wide open.

 

[FrancoPizza]

He would have been terrific had he come back for his sophomore season.

Seems like revisionist history. Didn't a bunch of people here proclaim that his draft stock had already peaked? What was he really going to improve? If you're thinking he would become more aggressive in taking chances and pushing tempo- well that just isn't who he is.

 

[OttoMets]

everyone forgets that Scoop wasn't as highly regarded while here as he was at the end. Ennis and MCW didn't have jr and sr year's to show what they would have done in those years. They were special as it was. Can you imagine them as sr's?

That's true. But they did lack basic skills as underclassmen. Scoop could finish around the hoop and run a proper fast break (like most of the guards we've had over the years, before things have fallen apart lately) from the get-go.

The only people who didn't regard Scoop highly when he was here were, to paraphrase Boeheim, people who don't know much about basketball. I spent too many hours trading posts with some of them for three years. He was a popular target for criticism for who knows what reason, but he could play.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Agreed. What Gillon needs to do a better job of is ensuring that he draws contact, and not finessing it up against bigger teams. Get to the line.

At CSU [different level of competition, I know], Gillon finished with either hand, through contact, etc. The capability is there. If I were JB, I'd pull his a$$ the next time he takes it to the rim and tries one of those reverse layups--make the simple play. Get past the guy, dump the ball to a teammate, or get to the line. And if you don't do one of those three things, you haven't done your job.

He needs to learn a floater. Drawing contact is a skill of this game (see James Harden), but it seems he is more set on actually getting fouled than trying to make a shot. Yes his height is a problem, but I would focus on making the basket before drawing the foul. Fouls will come. I think the use of a little runner is hugely missing from our guards. Howard had one in the last game, which was wide open. Underused shot. Triche was decent at it.

If nothing else, watching Gillon struggle inside just makes you appreciate how amazing Isaiah Thomas is right now. That guy is fearless...and a REALLY good offensive guard in the NBA.

 

[RF2044]

Agree completely. Defense up top and steals are a huge aspect of the defense that we play, and we just don't get a lot right now. G was okay on the break... not great, not terrible. Improved as the season went on imo. One of my all-time favorites. That dude literally learned a completely different position, and a hard one at that. It's amazing what he did, and hopefully more people appreciate him.

Beat me to it--I didn't see your post before making mine.

 

[br801]

Seems like revisionist history. Didn't a bunch of people here proclaim that his draft stock had already peaked? What was he really going to improve? If you're thinking he would become more aggressive in taking chances and pushing tempo- well that just isn't who he is.

He was a terrific college player and would have continued to be one had he returned. And yes, his draft stock probably had peaked and he almost certainly made the right decision for himself by declaring for the draft at that point.

 

[RF2044]

Seems like revisionist history. Didn't a bunch of people here proclaim that his draft stock had already peaked? What was he really going to improve? If you're thinking he would become more aggressive in taking chances and pushing tempo- well that just isn't who he is.

How is something hypothetical also "revisionist?"

You don't think players improve over time? I watched Ennis play a couple of weeks ago in an NBA game, and he pushed the ball then. So yes--I do think he would have been more aggressive, because that was a natural area for growth in his game.

Contrary to what some thing, most players aren't static and the same player year after year [not looking at you, Mr. Roberson]. You're applying some weird logic connoting improvement with what it means in terms of NBA draft stock.

 

[dasher]

I liked Ennis. Great maturity and composure like has been said. I agree a place like Wisconsin would have probably been better suited for him. He isn't a dynamic enough athlete to get off the bench in HOU but I saw him up close at the Cavs-Hou game and he looks really good. Transformed his body. Looks like a legit NBA guard now. More on that NBA game in another post.

Ennis didn't have good enough players with him as well and he could be shut down against good M2M. Hound Cooney and get up on Ennis and we were done. 25-0, lol...poof! Once the book was out on how to defend us we were done.

No book. We won a number of games we could have lost along the way of that 25-0. Close games. We lost some games at the end by a couple of pts each game. They were games we could have won. B.C., N.C state, Dayton. All could have gone our way. Hell, early in the season we were lucky to beat St Francis. This past year, we won those games in the tournament.

 

[NineOneSeven]

2011-2012 MCW couldn't get off the bench. God I miss that season. Plus I was a senior at SU. Really tough ending with the Fab and OSU saga, but what a year to be up there. Miss that so much.

 

[Madbiker]

2014-15, 2015-16, 2016-17.
Our PGs have been Michael Gbinjie who freaking saved the program, Kaleb Joseph, and Frank Howard.
Joseph was botched by our program as Creighton snapped him up and Howard can't be consistent enough against good competition.

Why can't our all guard coaching staff find a PG.

Don't know why the staff has seemingly fallen in love with recruiting "combo" guards who played off the ball for all except their final year of HS and trying to make them into a PG instead of bringing in true points who have the instinct to run an offense. I get they tried for Green but then didn't leave themselves any plan B options.

 

[FrancoPizza]

lol We started 25-0 If by crashing and burning you mean we lost at the end of the game against Dayton, fine. The kid was great here.

You don't go from #1 to looking like a bubble team in a span of 1 month without the plane hitting severe turbulence. At least that's how it might look on paper.

Many saw the turbulence coming. It felt like a huge stock bubble just waiting to pop. It's hard to enjoy a flight when you know the engines are sputtering at 30,000 feet and you are miles from any airport.

 

[dasher]

2011-2012 MCW couldn't get off the bench. God I miss that season. Plus I was a senior at SU. Really tough ending with the Fab and OSU saga, but what a year to be up there. Miss that so much.

They went to the final four twice in the next four years. I guess they just needed to get you out of there. By the way, I'm jealous of the kids that got two final fours in their stay.

 

[RF2044]

2011-2012 MCW couldn't get off the bench. God I miss that season. Plus I was a senior at SU. Really tough ending with the Fab and OSU saga, but what a year to be up there. Miss that so much.

I was convinced--CONVINCED--after observing this team in preseason practice that they were poised to have a 2012 type of season. Never did I envision our guard play being so poor.

Crazy.

 

[AZOrange]

2011-2012 MCW couldn't get off the bench. God I miss that season. Plus I was a senior at SU. Really tough ending with the Fab and OSU saga, but what a year to be up there. Miss that so much.

Fabs pick and roll for the lob dunk was my favorite play. We just had killers on that team. Ugh...dumb paper

 

[NineOneSeven]

They went to the final four twice in the next four years. I guess they just needed to get you out of there. By the way, I'm jealous of the kids that got two final fours in their stay.

That's the best part about it all. Is there a better stretch than we had from 2008-2012 in terms of overall basketball games during the regular season? Two of our best teams ever were when I was there. Then I leave and in the next 4 years, two FFs. That's the nature of college bball and the NCAAT.

 

[AZOrange]

I was convinced--CONVINCED--after observing this team in preseason practice that they were poised to have a 2012 type of season. Never did I envision our guard play being so poor.

Crazy.

This is a weird team. We manhandled teams early and took Monmouth to the shed. Then lost all our mojo against USC