Izzo calls his schedule "The Boeheim Theory"

[PoppyHart]

This is a funny thread.

 

[NKR1978]

When its all said and done, Boeheim's resume crushes Izzo's. Thats all that matters.

Come on man.

 

[shermstheman]

Big Ten isn't that strong this year, just overhyped and over rated. Even the best year for the Big Ten is an average year in the Big East.

Now Big Ten isn't anywhere near SEC bad but I'm not sure any other conference that is. You have Kentucky and then Florida as the second best team but since we beat Florida this year they are no longer recognized as a good team.

Not so sure I agree- haven't seen a lot of Big 10 this year but what I've seen has been impressive- more so than what I've seen from other BE schools than the Cuse.

 

[alibrat66]

When its all said and done, Boeheim's resume crushes Izzo's. Thats all that matters.

When all is said and done, there has been a lot more said than done.

Tom Izzo: 6 Final Fours, 6 Big Ten Championships, .708 winning percentage
Jim Boeheim: 3 Final Fours, 8 Big East Championships, .744 winning percentage
Ages: Boeheim +12
Nat'l Championships: Each has 1

Fairly even, I'd say. Barring health problems with either coach, Izzo, who took over MSU HC job in 1995, will no doubt coach at least 10-15 years after Boeheim retires.

 

[SWC75]

I've never understood the theory that your performance in March is a product of who you played in November and December.

 

[HOFCeluck]

When all is said and done, there has been a lot more said than done.

Tom Izzo: 6 Final Fours, 6 Big Ten Championships, .708 winning percentage
Jim Boeheim: 3 Final Fours, 8 Big East Championships, .744 winning percentage
Ages: Boeheim +12
Nat'l Championships: Each has 1

Fairly even, I'd say. Barring health problems with either coach, Izzo, who took over MSU HC job in 1995, will no doubt coach at least 10-15 years after Boeheim retires.

Only a Syracuse fan would call that close

 

[Albeck43]

When will everyone come around?

When will everyone come around?

Beside the convolution in the main storyline (Izzo is criticizing Boeheim, not going along with him), it is pretty funny to see Eastern Michigan as one of Izzo's four road victories. MSU's campus is about sixty miles from Ypsilanti (Eastern). There were probably more Spartan fans at that game than Eagles fans. The story is even more annoying when it points out that Michigan and Northwestern now lurk as more adventuresome road games. Yes, it is true that half MSU's conference schedule involves playing on the road. (am I missing something?) BTW, Michigan will be no pushover, but Ann Arbor is another one hour car trip from East Lansing.

 

[obliterata]

Sweet Sixteens are nice but I always thought if you're a really good basketball program then going beyond that is how you define a very successful year - just making the Elite Eight, and not the Final Four, is quite an accomplishment.

Izzo's done it 7 times in 16 years, Boeheim's done it 4 times in 35 years. In November and December though, I would take Boeheim over Izzo or any other coach for that matter.

 

[alibrat66]

Only a Syracuse fan would call that close

 

[CorduroyG]

Only a Syracuse fan would call that close

So overall winning % doesnt matter at all? Its final 4 or bust?

 

[chop block]

Not sure. But if so, that one win was played in Michigan, in Izzo's back yard.

2000 lost at auburn hills. msu went on to win championship

 

[Eric15]

When its all said and done, Boeheim's resume crushes Izzo's. Thats all that matters.

Not sure if I agree with that. Izzo has 6 Final Fours in 17 years and Boeheim has 3 Final Fours in 37 years.

 

[LennX6]

I've never understood the theory that your performance in March is a product of who you played in November and December.

Here is where , albeit remotely, I believe it comes into play. I will use SU as an example. WE thought we were good going into the Florida game, but after playing them and beating them, we KNEW we were good. Playing a top team OOC and beating them instills confidence that could carry through right through March. Conversely losses against a tough OOC could sink a team. Again I say remotely, but that my personal take. If that is what happens, it would be one of a plethora of variables that goes into being a tournament team that goes deep.

 

[LennX6]

Not sure if I agree with that. Izzo has 6 Final Fours in 17 years and Boeheim has 3 Final Fours in 37 years.

I agree with you, at a minimum, Izzo and Boeheim are in the same conversation In 2022 we will be talking about Izzo and Donovan approaching K's JB', Knight and Calhouns records.

 

[SoBristol]

On OOC scheduling, you have two different points.
Do you play genuine away games (not including MSG)? Never going to see much of that with JB's approach, and no need to. We can put 20,000 in the Dome against Cornell; we can play before 14,000 in MSG against any top 50 team.

Do you have some good opponents in the OOC mix, including those November games in MSG or vs the SEC or early season tournaments? Games against NC in 2009, the Atlantic City games in 2010, Stanford, Florida & NC State this year -- these games provide a good early season test and measuring stick. Maybe 3 of those, minimum.

 

[swish7]

When all is said and done, there has been a lot more said than done.

Tom Izzo: 6 Final Fours, 6 Big Ten Championships, .708 winning percentage
Jim Boeheim: 3 Final Fours, 8 Big East Championships, .744 winning percentage
Ages: Boeheim +12
Nat'l Championships: Each has 1

Fairly even, I'd say. Barring health problems with either coach, Izzo, who took over MSU HC job in 1995, will no doubt coach at least 10-15 years after Boeheim retires.

I would actually say Izzo's three additional final fours really separate him from Jim Boeheim. just my opinion.

 

[SoBristol]

Agree about the final fours, but if Derrick makes the front end of a 1 and 1, or Keith Smart never existed, JB has two NCs and wins this comparison. So close.

 

[SWC75]

Here is where , albeit remotely, I believe it comes into play. I will use SU as an example. WE thought we were good going into the Florida game, but after playing them and beating them, we KNEW we were good. Playing a top team OOC and beating them instills confidence that could carry through right through March. Conversely losses against a tough OOC could sink a team. Again I say remotely, but that my personal take. If that is what happens, it would be one of a plethora of variables that goes into being a tournament team that goes deep.

But wouldn't the same thing happen against a strong conference opponent? Why does it have to be an OOC?

 

[PoppyHart]

I agree with you, at a minimum, Izzo and Boeheim are in the same conversation In 2022 we will be talking about Izzo and Donovan approaching K's JB', Knight and Calhouns records.

Donovan yes, Izzo no. He's 56. Donovan is 46. They have comparable win totals (slightly over 400). Izzo would need to average 30 wins for 15 years just to reach JB's current total.

 

[PoppyHart]

But wouldn't the same thing happen against a strong conference opponent? Why does it have to be an OOC?

I think winning a tough OOC game, especially on the road, is far more important than in conference. You are much less likely to see a top conference opponent in the tourney, and the confidence from knowing you can play with the best is enormous, as the OP suggested.

In 2003, when did people truly believe we could win it all? I'm sure most will say the win at MSU, a team which wasn't Izzo's best, but still reached the Final 8. I don't think people were as optimistic after the wins against Pitt and ND, who were #2 and #9 respectively, when we beat them.

 

[SWC75]

I think winning a tough OOC game, especially on the road, is far more important than in conference. You are much less likely to see a top conference opponent in the tourney, and the confidence from knowing you can play with the best is enormous, as the OP suggested.

In 2003, when did people truly believe we could win it all? I'm sure most will say the win at MSU, a team which wasn't Izzo's best, but still reached the Final 8. I don't think people were as optimistic after the wins against Pitt and ND, who were #2 and #9 respectively, when we beat them.

I find it hard to believe that a team that does well in the Big East doesn't emerge from that as a confident team.

 

[zhanjuzi]

There are multiple ways of getting it done and both are successful admired coaches. MSU top teams have been very impressive as have the top Cuse teams. Its just unfortunate that Izzo would make a pejorative remark aimed at JB .. I've never seen anything negative that JB has said about Izzo or any other coach .. glad he takes the high road.

 

[Knicks411]

But wouldn't the same thing happen against a strong conference opponent? Why does it have to be an OOC?

I think that's true, but I also think it might be better to know that earlier. If you are playing nothing but cupcakes in the first 2 months (this is a theoretical comment) of the season, you may not have a good feel for your teams strengths and weaknesses. If you play a few tough teams in the OOC, that is just earlier in the season that you have an idea of where you are at, what you need to work on, etc.

In the long run, is it probably a huge deal either way? Doubtful. But it's fun to talk about.

Like I've said many times, from an SU fan standpoint, I'd like to see us playing more good teams in the OOC because it's fun to see us playing really good teams. Does that mean it would prepare us better? I have no idea. But it would be more fun for me, and it would give us a chance to evaluate our team earlier.

 

[orangecuse]

There are multiple ways of getting it done and both are successful admired coaches. MSU top teams have been very impressive as have the top Cuse teams. Its just unfortunate that Izzo would make a pejorative remark aimed at JB .. I've never seen anything negative that JB has said about Izzo or any other coach .. glad he takes the high road.

I think Izzo is just pissed that SU has the better block S logo.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

But wouldn't the same thing happen against a strong conference opponent? Why does it have to be an OOC?

I'm with you SWC. The whole OOC seperation thing can be annoying. It really gets to me with the OOC SOS as a seperate measure. That whole metric just seems to penalize those who play in the toughest conference. And when you add to that the unbalanced conference schedules, it really affects those in the tough conferences who play the difficult teams twice (like SU for TV money).

Luckily, this year it does not matter. It's just annoying when the talking heads now overlook the RPI and SOS and find other ways to attack what is a very good overall schedule (the leaving the State thing is tops on the current obnoxious scale).