JB calling into Axe about recruiting now

[007]

Spot on. I was about to respond to your first paragraph with something along the lines of your second paragraph. Frank the Crank didn't show much of a handle last year, much less a "dynamic scoring" ability. Maybe feeling better after his surgery will help.

I'm very worried about teams being able to key on Battle, as you said, so much that it will wear on him and obviously make it tough for him to score. Hope he stays healthy through that too. That's always something to monitor with Tyus but wow, is that kid in phenomenal shape. No one is a better workout warrior and it's rubbed off on his roommate, Matt Moyer, who has really gotten into great shape as well.

The strange thing with "on the court" Frank is I thought he was playing his best ball near the end of the year (despite the early season stats). It's not that he is not skilled, it's more his knack for really poor decision making at the worst possible time. I don't know what type of surgery he had, but I doubt it will impact that part of his game.

When you combine the decision making with the bad FT shooting, I think it will be tough for JB to have him on the floor in end of game situations.

 

[007]

Thompson will be a front court player, who will score, no question. I just hope he scores in the post. We need his jumper but we also need him to do damage inside near the basket.

I wonder more about TT's willingness to play with back to the basket than his ability to do so. I agree he will be a scorer (already shown that) and he might be the best mid range shooter on the team, IMO. Any damage he does in the paint will mostly come off the glass or on pick and rolls.

 

[iommi]

I wonder more about TT's willingness to play with back to the basket than his ability to do so. I agree he will be a scorer (already shown that) and he might be the best mid range shooter on the team, IMO. Any damage he does in the paint will mostly come off the glass or on pick and rolls.

He showed flashes with some post moves but they were intermittent. I agree, he's capable. If only we had a true big man coach (just kidding, sort of).

I do hope he gets on campus and gets his head on straight. Pretty sure he's still not on campus. If anyone else could confirm, that would be appreciated. He's not on social media, so he's kind of off the grid for this day and age.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Not about Wes Johnson. He was well established at Iowa State. Gbinije was a top 50 kid, but projected as a SF, not a PG.

Wes Johnson was definitely established. In fact, during the SU-Hall game at the 2009 BET I was sitting next to a Knicks scout. He covered the Big 12, WCC, and maybe the Pac-12 at the time. We were talking about the current players on the floor and I mentioned that I was excited to see Wes Johnson next season. He perked up and was like, "Wait, Wes Johnson transfered to Syracuse?! Wow." He was very impressed with him back then.

 

[SWC75]

You have admitted you don't follow recruiting. That is what JB's interview centered around. Therefore you cannot talk about recruiting with any authority. That's my opinion. Maybe you feel like you can talk about our roster after watching some clips and trusting the coaches. Okay, that's your view and that's fine but that also means you don't follow how we got player X or didn't get player Y. That's germane to the discussion.

I know your track record is you don't like being questioned about anything but I figured I'd do so, despite knowing I wouldn't win any popularity contests. You talking about levels of targets when you don't even know the players or where they are on the pecking order is comical at best.

I do respect your historical knowledge and you do bring tremendous value to the board but I couldn't let this go by.

You labeling something someone posts as "arrogant" is interesting. I'll leave it at that.

I don't mind being questioned but I don't like being dismissed.

But let me ask you this, since you have more knowledge than I do on this subject. Who said "No" to us such that we settled for Sidibie and Brissett?

 

[SWC75]

What's crippling is missing on the guys we've brought in. I can make a list if you'd like. Every player on that list if you go through their recruiting threads make them sound like they're bringing us to the championship. Every year it's "we have this guy this guy and this guy, this freshman is amazing and this other guy is awesome", every year for the last 4 have been like that. Either call it what it is when we recruit them or accept defeat on those guys. But calling a mulligan and making excuses of sanctions when "everything was fine" year after year doesn't make sense.

Sanctions are excuses? Then i guess they were harsh enough.

 

[SWC75]

You're right, I do expect a lot because we have EVERYTHING in place to be what we were early this decade regularly.

What's painful for me is it was easy to see it coming. We get perfect pieces and throw them in with guys that probably don't belong in a ACC lineup for 30 minutes a game.

The draft pick streak is nice, but when it's one guy being the focal point of a team of course he's going to get pro looks. But there's a reason why it's one guy every year, because we usually have only one guy.

HOF coach, facilities, academics, and reputation. Zero excuse why we're here, and as someone else said in another post, it's sad we're talking about "making the tourney if we have great chemistry".

Tyler Lydon was the focal point of the team? Malachi Richardson? Chris McCullough? Jerami Grant? Our problem isn't that we have one guy who is the focal point of the team. The problems is that we have guys with so much potential that the pros pluck them before they can achieve it in Syracuse.

 

[JazzNC]

Everyone keeps saying trust the system, have faith in JB, we've had down years before, etc.

But it's arguably different now. If people were saying this 15 years ago, I would've wholeheartedly agreed.

But JB is in his mid 70s. The recruiting staff has changed. Hop is gone. And kids want to go to a school where the head coach isn't almost 74 or almost 80 by the time of graduation.

It is my opinion that the greatest factor affecting recruiting is JB's age. If he was 50 the zone might deter some recruits, but not this much. Same for the sanctions.

I wish there was an easy answer.

 

[AZOrange]

Tyler Lydon was the focal point of the team? Malachi Richardson? Chris McCullough? Jerami Grant? Our problem isn't that we have one guy who is the focal point of the team. The problems is that we have guys with so much potential that the pros pluck them before they can achieve it in Syracuse.

Yep. JB has literally said this 1000 times. It's even in his book!

 

[iommi]

Tyler Lydon was the focal point of the team? Malachi Richardson? Chris McCullough? Jerami Grant? Our problem isn't that we have one guy who is the focal point of the team. The problems is that we have guys with so much potential that the pros pluck them before they can achieve it in Syracuse.

And that's because are recruiting has fallen off due to a variety of factors. The depth hasn't been there to survive those losses.

 

[iommi]

I don't mind being questioned but I don't like being dismissed.

But let me ask you this, since you have more knowledge than I do on this subject. Who said "No" to us such that we settled for Sidibie and Brissett?

There were a ton of guys who said no to us. It's not like there is a list that is made public of exactly what our preferences are position by position. You could make educated guesses based on how much time we put in, when the offers were extended and other factors. On top of that, you can't really say if guys like Sidibe were recruited at certain positions. All players are different with varying skill sets. Sidibe will likely play a lot center this season but in high school he played the 5/4. He played the bottom wing of the zone and the middle of the zone.

Sidibe is regarded as a 5/4, so would you like me to list the 4's or the 5's that we probably would've taken ahead of him? Same with Brissett. He's a 3/4. I think the staff loves both of those guys so I'd prefer not to say we wouldn't taken certain players over them.

You are all about being classy to recruits (rightfully so) but you want me to list whom the staff targeted over Sidibe and Brissett? I'm not going to play that classless game but we lost out on plenty of forward and center targets. Every school does. Duke didn't get Kevin Knox when everyone thought they were sure to get him. Then they took Tucker, hurting us in the process. It happens. Needless to say, there were a good bunch of forward and center types who chose to go elsewhere. Were those guys higher in our pecking order? Some almost certainly were. That said, we have a nice class but we missed out on two top PG targets, several wing targets, and a few bigs as well. Again, I won't say we would've preferred this guy over Brissett and that guy over Sidibe.

And we are not off to a good start in 2018, since Swider just said, "yes" to Villanova.

If you want to find out who turned us down, the answers are on the recruiting board. But I'm not going to take any comments you make about our choices seriously when you don't follow it and then parachute in with an uninformed opinion.

 

[Arangeman]

Somewhere in the middle of "the sky is falling" and "everything is fine" is the reality. Things ain't great, but things aren't horrible.

JB is once again puffing his chest about our talent. Deliver.

 

[JazzNC]

I'm truly shocked by the number of people who identify the sanctions as the biggest reason for our recruiting woes. In my opinion the single biggest problem with recruiting lies NOT with the sanctions, but with JB's age.

1. The sanctions are time limited and did not prevent us from being finalists for several top recruits. When the sanctions were given most said we'll be fine we only play 6-7 guys anyway. Now that that didn't turn out as planned the sanctions have crippled us? I don't think so. We lost those elite recruits because of JB's age, negative recruiting, and perceived loss of stability. A 74-79 year coach doesn't provide that.

2. The zone is a deterrent but it's never prevented us from recruiting in the past. That is not a new factor.

3. Hop leaving is the second biggest reason. It's a new development, it creates uncertainty, and he was our best most feared recruiter. He was well liked and connected with recruits and coaches.

4. JB is arguably in the running for one of the BEST all time coaches. But his age is scaring people away. With the average male lifespan being 84, JB will be nearly 80 when his contract is up. Kids want to know who they are playing for. Unlike the sanctions, this is not a time limited problem. It isn't going away. In fact each year it gets worse.

It is my opinion that if the sanctions ended today, we'd be in the same precarious recruiting situation. I don't want JB out as someone suggested I implied. I'd love nothing more than for him to keep on going, largely because he built this program.

Sadly, I view JB the way I view many pro athletes as they age. Many play too long because it's in their blood, and they love the sport. JB is no different. He"s winding down his career.

I'd love for him to exit on top. He had that chance two years ago. Now I'm afraid he goes out limping... and that's not how I want him to be remembered.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I'm truly shocked by the number of people who identify the sanctions as the biggest reason for our recruiting woes. In my opinion the single biggest problem with recruiting lies NOT with the sanctions, but with JB's age.

1. The sanctions are time limited and did not prevent us from being finalists for several top recruits. When the sanctions were given most said we'll be fine we only play 6-7 guys anyway. Now that that didn't turn out as planned the sanctions have crippled us. We lost those elite recruits because of JB's age, negative recruiting, and perceived loss of stability. A 74-79 year coach doesn't provide that.

A big part of the sanctions was that we had limited amount of coaches on the road at any given time. So it was a double hit. Less coaches, less scholarships. Add in a few guys who did well and left early and a few guys who did not do well and transferred out. With less schollies, we had to nail each guy. We didn't but no one does. But when you have 13 spots it's not as noticeable.

Surprised you didn't bring up about JAB and Hop spending a big portion of the off season tied up with USA Basketball. Perhaps they bit off more than they can chew. I think all of that played a big part in the lack of perceived recruiting success.

I would put JAB's age down the list. I think even though there was a plan in place for Hop to take over, I think that didn't help either. Not sure what the recruits were told behind closed doors, but there was always the future uncertainty. Then throw in the 9 game suspension due to the sanctions and Hop's trial period as HC and there was a lot on the fire for other coaches to negative recruit against Syracuse.

Now, that the sanctions are over, you can talk about age. But I would also talk about Coach K in the same sentence. Their situation is very similar.

 

[JazzNC]

A big part of the sanctions was that we had limited amount of coaches on the road at any given time. So it was a double hit. Less coaches, less scholarships. Add in a few guys who did well and left early and a few guys who did not do well and transferred out. With less schollies, we had to nail each guy. We didn't but no one does. But when you have 13 spots it's not as noticeable.

Surprised you didn't bring up about JAB and Hop spending a big portion of the off season tied up with USA Basketball. Perhaps they bit off more than they can chew. I think all of that played a big part in the lack of perceived recruiting success.

I would put JAB's age down the list. I think even though there was a plan in place for Hop to take over, I think that didn't help either. Not sure what the recruits were told behind closed doors, but there was always the future uncertainty. Then throw in the 9 game suspension due to the sanctions and Hop's trial period as HC and there was a lot on the fire for other coaches to negative recruit against Syracuse.

Now, that the sanctions are over, you can talk about age. But I would also talk about Coach K in the same sentence. Their situation is very similar.

I think much of what you have written has merit.

Perhaps JB and Hop shouldn't have been coaching team USA. But one can't argue that the sanctions prevented us from scouting/recruiting when the coaches had time to coach another team. That doesn't hold up.

As for coach K at Duke... I think the succession plan there will be much better and private. One day he'll just decide to announce his retirement, meanwhile the University probably already knows who his replacement is, but are smart enough to keep it secret. Duke is also a blue blood program, and I suspect it will go on long after Cosch K retires.

I respect your opinion, but I'm holding firm that JB's age is the single biggest factor. It's also a factor which cannot improve or be changed. Go Orange!

 

[Alsacs]

It's not just recruiting as Cusefan0307 has said our playing style just sucks to watch.

It's not just the all zone. We have a clogged toilet offense. That doesn't make scoring easy and relies on player making tough shots. JB has done nothing to fix or update the offense. If it relies on having a PG then freaking recruit PGs a lot harder. Instead we are putting our eggs in the basket of Frank Howard.

Teams will stack the paint and hedge on all ball screens by bigs who can't shoot and we will be relying on hero ball shots and hoping our defense has improved enough to make a difference.

JB has done enough to call his shots by these criticisms are all legit and that is what is frustrating. He hasn't evolved recently and takes all criticism personally. The fact we lost Hopkins was huge.

 

[Toga]

It's not just recruiting as Cusefan0307 has said our playing style just sucks to watch.

It's not just the all zone. We have a clogged toilet offense. That doesn't make scoring easy and relies on player making tough shots. JB has done nothing to fix or update the offense. If it relies on having a PG then freaking recruit PGs a lot harder. Instead we are putting our eggs in the basket of Frank Howard.

Teams will stack the paint and hedge on all ball screens by bigs who can't shoot and we will be relying on hero ball shots and hoping our defense has improved enough to make a difference.

JB has done enough to call his shots by these criticisms are all legit and that is what is frustrating. He hasn't evolved recently and takes all criticism personally. The fact we lost Hopkins was huge.

The fact both Boeheim and Hopkins were largely missing from the recruiting trail for a year was also huge.

 

[Alsacs]

The fact both Boeheim and Hopkins were largely missing from the recruiting trail for a year was also huge.

These facts would counter the narrative that sanctions limiting us two coaches on the road were killer.

JB and Hop on USA basketball duty for 2 of these offseasons would say we couldn't have had all the coaches on the road recruiting.

It's okay to have the opinion JB got complacent and that hurt the program. Hopkins was doing a lot more than just associate HC duties.

The offense can envolve. Instead its all ball screens and jump shots. We don't recruit many skilled big guys who can score. It's been 3 years now since Rak.

 

[JazzNC]

It's not just recruiting as Cusefan0307 has said our playing style just sucks to watch.

It's not just the all zone. We have a clogged toilet offense. That doesn't make scoring easy and relies on player making tough shots. JB has done nothing to fix or update the offense. If it relies on having a PG then freaking recruit PGs a lot harder. Instead we are putting our eggs in the basket of Frank Howard.

Teams will stack the paint and hedge on all ball screens by bigs who can't shoot and we will be relying on hero ball shots and hoping our defense has improved enough to make a difference.

JB has done enough to call his shots by these criticisms are all legit and that is what is frustrating. He hasn't evolved recently and takes all criticism personally. The fact we lost Hopkins was huge.

I agree our style of play has changed. It's not as fun to watch as it was in the days where we ran and threw the alley-oop better than anyone. BUT, I truly don't think our style of play is hurting us as much as JB's age and loss of Hop. Teams like Wisconsin and UVA are about as exciting as watching paint dry, and they still found ways to recruit. I really believe it's a lack of perceived direction, stability and trust that JB will coach until he's 79. This is frightening kids away.

 

[kcsu]

We all know Jim should have stepped down after the last final four. We all know Hop left because Jim was reneging on his word. Having said that Jim looks much younger than his age. He still seems to have the fire and we all know that he is a great coach. My issue is that Wildhack and Jb had better be on the same page. Jim owes it to the program to let him know exactly when he is going to retire. Zero ambiguity. Wild needs to be in position to plan. This transition is critical. I agree that it should remain private but there has to be a plan in place. For my part if his son comes to SU i think that 4 years from that point is fairly obvious. If not i would expect 2 no more than 3.

 

[JazzNC]

Tyler Lydon was the focal point of the team? Malachi Richardson? Chris McCullough? Jerami Grant? Our problem isn't that we have one guy who is the focal point of the team. The problems is that we have guys with so much potential that the pros pluck them before they can achieve it in Syracuse.

I actually agree with this. The one and done rule has killed college basketball. JB's model works when he has 85% program guys that know the system and buy into the zone, with one elite go to guy.

But today's game has changed. More and more kids leave early whether they are ready or not. They seem to be ok with getting a paycheck in Europe too.

What this brings me back to, is JB's system is very hard to utilize in today's game. Instead of evolving he's trying to hang on to what made him and SU so great.

But times change. Like the no huddle offense in football, the game is changing. Not even the center position is the same anymore.

I guess what I'm saying is that the model that made SU a top program is now antiquated, And JB, bless him, is trying to put a wooden block into a round hole. Love the man, his fiery competitiveness, and his passion. He deserves the right to coach as long as he wants. I just wish he had the wisdom and foresight to see it's time to move on.

 

[Toga]

We all know Jim should have stepped down after the last final four. We all know Hop left because Jim was reneging on his word. Having said that Jim looks much younger than his age. He still seems to have the fire and we all know that he is a great coach. My issue is that Wildhack and Jb had better be on the same page. Jim owes it to the program to let him know exactly when he is going to retire. Zero ambiguity. Wild needs to be in position to plan. This transition is critical. I agree that it should remain private but there has to be a plan in place. For my part if his son comes to SU i think that 4 years from that point is fairly obvious. If not i would expect 2 no more than 3.

Agree with all this. When I met him last week I was surprised how well he looked.

 

[JDubbin]

It's not just recruiting as Cusefan0307 has said our playing style just sucks to watch.

It's not just the all zone. We have a clogged toilet offense. That doesn't make scoring easy and relies on player making tough shots. JB has done nothing to fix or update the offense. If it relies on having a PG then freaking recruit PGs a lot harder. Instead we are putting our eggs in the basket of Frank Howard.

Teams will stack the paint and hedge on all ball screens by bigs who can't shoot and we will be relying on hero ball shots and hoping our defense has improved enough to make a difference.

JB has done enough to call his shots by these criticisms are all legit and that is what is frustrating. He hasn't evolved recently and takes all criticism personally. The fact we lost Hopkins was huge.

How is "we have a clogged toilet offense" a legit criticism? It's not. It's a personal view that's not even statistically backed, but you have no problem throwing it out there. Let's compare total Points Per Game, since that has some offensive significance, doesn't it? Xavier's offense has been praised and lauded with Mack as it's architect numerous times on this board. Their pretty offense lead to scoring 74.55 points per game. Syracuse's clogged toilet offense lead to 76.29... but our offense is "hero ball." Which would you take? The one that looks prettier or the one that gets results? Arizona, an all-time board favorite, scored 76.57 per game. Our defense was not good last season, we all agree. But this offense-looks-bad criticism does not have statistical backing and is simply not true. Why continue to push it?

 

[Alsacs]

How is "we have a clogged toilet offense" a legit criticism? It's not. It's a personal view that's not even statistically backed, but you have no problem throwing it out there. Let's compare total Points Per Game, since that has some offensive significance, doesn't it? Xavier's offense has been praised and lauded with Mack as it's architect numerous times on this board. Their pretty offense lead to scoring 74.55 points per game. Syracuse's clogged toilet offense lead to 76.29... but our offense is "hero ball." Which would you take? The one that looks prettier or the one that gets results? Arizona, an all-time board favorite, scored 76.57 per game. Our defense was not good last season, we all agree. But this offense-looks-bad criticism does not have statistical backing and is simply not true. Why continue to push it?

If you think our offenses have been good the last 5 years I don't know what to tell you.

We play a slow pace and just because Andrew White made a ridiculous amount of tough shots doesn't mean our offense has been good.

Our offense has been dependent on how many 3's we have made. There is no ball movement or post offense since Rak. It has been ISO ball.

 

[JDubbin]

If you think our offenses have been good the last 5 years I don't know what to tell you.

We play a slow pace and just because Andrew White made a ridiculous amount of tough shots doesn't mean our offense has been good.

Our offense has been dependent on how many 3's we have made. There is no ball movement or post offense since Rak. It has been ISO ball.

Can you back that up statistically? What is your definition of "good?" Is it an eye test thing only? Again, we scored more points per game than Xavier... do the results actually matter to you? Andrew White made a ridiculous amount of tough shots is your criticism? Andrew White is a good player who made shots, how is that a criticism? Our offense is dependant on how many 3's we made? So is about every offense in America... the Cavs and the Warriors offense's are reliant on how many 3's they make as well. You are taking your personal preference on offense and trying to turn it into a criticism of JB, but our offense was FINE last year. For someone who claims to be objective in your observations, this one certainly is not.