JB calling into Axe about recruiting now

[SWC75]

There's an awful lot of postmortem in this thread for a team and a recruiting class that hasn't played a game yet.

November is four months away but people are already carving up the turkey.

 

[SoBeCuse]

This is getting crazy. So let's take last year Wisconsin and Greg Gard. Because Syracuse has a better Ken Pom AdjO that means Syracuse has a better offense? What is this amateur hour? Wisconsin runs beautiful stuff. Gard doesn't use Bo Ryan's system much either now, FYI.

Wisconsin runs good enough stuff to beat Villanova. I doubt Syracuse could've put 50 on Villanova. Villanova would get up on all the players and Syracuse would be grinded into a hault because there isn't enough movement and it is too dependent on ISO ball and very good PG play. Wisconsin wasn't bothered much because they run good stuff, they are sound, and have a good system as well as good talent. We aren't at their level of offensive scheme and ability.

 

[Alsacs]

So after others did the research...you totally made this statement up. Your schtick is growing so tired.

I love you. All is well in your echo chamber. 007 did not say our offense has been good either.

If you can't wake up and see the fact we have been a mediocre program than it's your right to live in Fantasyland.

 

[Alsacs]

Probably a better metric to look at Al is KenPom's adjusted offensive efficiency index. This looks at points scored per possession adjusted for opponent (this is important because the ACC has some of the best Ds in Div 1).

Over the past 5 seasons, starting with 2017, SU has ranked: 30, 50, 118, 29, and 25 using this metric. The 118 is the anomaly in that span (interestingly, that was Christmas sr season).

To my eye, SU's offensive efficiency has been driven by the play of PG for the past several years. We were ranked 29 with Ennis as PG, and 25th with MCW. Last year's efficiency was despite poor PG play, which points to how prolific White and other the shooters performed.

2017 Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings

Do you think our offense has been good?
I would say we have won with our defense all the way recently besides this past year.

 

[Alsacs]

This is getting crazy. So let's take last year Wisconsin and Greg Gard. Because Syracuse has a better Ken Pom AdjO that means Syracuse has a better offense? What is this amateur hour? Wisconsin runs beautiful stuff. Gard doesn't use Bo Ryan's system much either now, FYI.

Wisconsin runs good enough stuff to beat Villanova. I doubt Syracuse could've put 50 on Villanova. Villanova would get up on all the players and Syracuse would be grinded into a hault because there isn't enough movement and it is too dependent on ISO ball and very good PG play. Wisconsin wasn't bothered much because they run good stuff, they are sound, and have a good system as well as good talent. We aren't at their level of offensive scheme and ability.

So after others did the research...you totally made this statement up. Your schtick is growing so tired.

 

[iommi]

If they love these guys than I guess they didn't 'settle' for them. Both committed in the fall before their seniors seasons so I thought that they were probably #1 or tied for #1 on the coaches priority lists, as opposed to Washington who clearly was #2 behind Greene. Even #2 choices can turn out to be good players. The coaches are not 'uniformed'.

Ha. Our coaches obviously love all the players who sign NLI's but they love some guys we offer more than others. You know this. Jeeze. I didn't say we settled for OB or BS. Settled would be way down our list. I never said they were.

Okay, I'll bite and name a few names that everyone who follows recruiting would know would be higher up our list. We were going to sign Brandon Randolph, a wing who wound up at Arizona. Now, Randolph is a wing and not even close to a 4. Nonetheless, we would've taken him over OB if it was a one or the other deal (which it really isn't). We offered Billy Preston, who wound up at Kansas. It's not debatable that we would've taken him over OB if it was an either/ or situation.

If we call Sidibe a center, it's also not debatable whether we'd have taken Nick Richards or Mo Bamba if we could only take one guy. Those guys were two of the top centers in the country. There were several others on our list too.

HW wasn't #2, #3 or #38 after QG. He was whom we reached out to after QG chose Kentucky. HW was off our radar because we employed a stupid all-or-nothing approach with QG. We had no one under Green. We blew off guys who were on our list to try to show QG he was our guy. I'm sure you heard about that.

OB and BS were tremendous players to add to our program. Our staff identified them as underrated. Not sure how you'd define "#1 priority" but I'm hopeful both will be great players and obviously the staff is too.

 

[Cusefan0307]

There is no doubt that recruiting has dipped in the past couple years. I don't see it drastically improving in the near future, but I think we can still be successful.

Recently JBs player comments have tended to follow (not always) a cycle where they are great players when the come to him, underachievers while playing for him and misguided when contemplating an early departure for the NBA. That's started to shift a bit with Lydon.

However the damage and perception still exist. We tend to focus on how those comments affect the player-rightfully so- but the greater impact of those words falls on the AAU coaches. It's logical to assume some of those coaches don't like to see their players publicly undressed.

What's successful?

I think the fans are going to get louder with their criticism until we have a season where we finish with 25 wins, win an ACC tournament game, and go to at least the sweet 16. I'm not sure that's this year, but that's the success people are used to around here.

 

[iommi]

There's an awful lot of postmortem in this thread for a team and a recruiting class that hasn't played a game yet.

November is four months away but people are already carving up the turkey.

No one is burying us or our players. Who is writing off our season? The off-season and recruiting is about working to field the best possible team in the fall.

Again, you don't follow recruiting but you want to defend how we have been recruiting. Have any movies you haven't watched that you'd care to review? Oh, I get it. You've read the reviews so you think you can rate the movies.

 

[reedny]

Oops. I guess I made a mistake of being ranked #30 is a good thing.(No sarcasm intended) Let me put it another way (with sarcasm intended): our offensive was woefully boring to watch.

I genuinely believe our numbers would've looked a lot worse without AW3 jacking up contested shots with the shot clock expiring (as someone else mentioned). I mean this totally complimentary towards White. Our offense is tough to watch and easy to defend.

If the team was fun to watch and tough to defend by opposing teams, you wouldn't have to defend the product we've been putting out there. Our problem last year was our defense, but our offense wasn't good either. We are so easy to defend. Teams don't have to game plan for us. They know exactly what we are going to do (on both ends). Any chance we change our out of bounds plays????? Nah, what am I thinking? Crazy talk.

Agree. And one big reason we're easy to defend is that we're jump-shooters with little, if any, low block offense. That's partly recruiting, and certainly injuries have hurt us also. At any rate, the scouting on SU is simple: pack the lane and stick to their shooters. On the few nights when we can't miss, we win. But usually the formula works and we struggle against the better teams in the league and, occassionally when our jumpers aren't falling, we get blown out. It's been ugly to watch, but there's no mystery. Recruit bigs that can score and rebound (Sidibe may be an improvement), and guards that can shoot and penetrate. That will give us two dimensions, a drastic improvement over the jumpshooting teams we've been watching the last few years (and yes, even our FF team was that way -- we just got lucky because our guards got incredibly hot in the tournament).

 

[Cusefan0307]

We play 4 on 5 with way to many teams. Guys like Roberson, Keita, and Chukwu don't help our offense. The guy guarding them can just clog the paint.

 

[Alsacs]

We play 4 on 5 with way to many teams. Guys like Roberson, Keita, and Chukwu don't help our offense. The guy guarding them can just clog the paint.

This backs the theory we don't recruit offensively skilled bigs and recruit for zone defense.

Hell we got Rak Christmas and it took about 2.5 years to develop his skills.

We play 4 on 5 way too much offensively and then it becomes ISO someone take a 1 on 1 shot.

 

[Funk Doc]

This backs the theory we don't recruit offensively skilled bigs and recruit for zone defense.

Hell we got Rak Christmas and it took about 2.5 years to develop his skills.

We play 4 on 5 way too much offensively and then it becomes ISO someone talk a 1 on 1 shot.

I always wonder if Rak had that earlier on, but wasn't offered the opportunity he was as a senior. His senior year was one of my favorite individual player performances!

 

[Alsacs]

I always wonder if Rak had that earlier on, but wasn't offered the opportunity he was as a senior. His senior year was one of my favorite individual player performances!

He showed glimpses in 2014 when we gave him the ball. The guards never gave him the chances though his Junior year.

I remember Rak posting up for a couple of huge baskets against Pitt in the Dome game that year.

 

[iommi]

We play 4 on 5 with way to many teams. Guys like Roberson, Keita, and Chukwu don't help our offense. The guy guarding them can just clog the paint.

I'm hopeful Sidibe will bring enough offense to keep defenses honest this year.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I'm hopeful Sidibe will bring enough offense to keep defenses honest this year.

We haven't had guards who fed the post well since about Scoop. Think about that. When we had Arinze and Rick was the last time we had a balanced team that had scoring in the low post as an equal part of the offense. Rak's senior year doesn't count, because he's all we had, and we still didn't feed him all that great.

 

[iommi]

We haven't had guards who fed the post well since about Scoop. Think about that. When we had Arinze and Rick was the last time we had a balanced team that had scoring in the low post as an equal part of the offense. Rak's senior year doesn't count, because he's all we had, and we still didn't feed him all that great.

Yeah, I agree. Even Ennis wasn't great at feeding the post. Odd for such a solid half court point guard.

 

[RF2044]

We haven't had guards who fed the post well since about Scoop. Think about that. When we had Arinze and Rick was the last time we had a balanced team that had scoring in the low post as an equal part of the offense. Rak's senior year doesn't count, because he's all we had, and we still didn't feed him all that great.

Triche way more than Scoop, IMO [nothing against Antonio]. At least BT looked inside, not sure that Scoop [amongst many other PGs here] did that much, if at all.

 

[JDubbin]

This is getting crazy. So let's take last year Wisconsin and Greg Gard. Because Syracuse has a better Ken Pom AdjO that means Syracuse has a better offense? What is this amateur hour? Wisconsin runs beautiful stuff. Gard doesn't use Bo Ryan's system much either now, FYI.

Wisconsin runs good enough stuff to beat Villanova. I doubt Syracuse could've put 50 on Villanova. Villanova would get up on all the players and Syracuse would be grinded into a hault because there isn't enough movement and it is too dependent on ISO ball and very good PG play. Wisconsin wasn't bothered much because they run good stuff, they are sound, and have a good system as well as good talent. We aren't at their level of offensive scheme and ability.

This is getting crazy, Syracuse ranks 100+ SPOTS HIGHER in PPG than Wisconsin Was 2016 and is a couple spots higher in Pomeroy! Yet, instead of any type of statistical backing of your argument you go with "I doubt Syracuse could post 50 on Villanova." Seriously? That's your argument? Some random arbitrary example that was never played out and cannot be backed or verified? This is a perfect example on the lack of objectivity on this board. The fact that you can post what you did, then grab a bunch of likes from the like minded is seriously off-putting. Wisconsin scored 4 points less per game than Syracuse this season, with less adjusted efficiency, and you get backed on that? Ridiculous.

 

[iommi]

Triche way more than Scoop, IMO [nothing against Antonio]. At least BT looked inside, not sure that Scoop [amongst many other PGs here] did that much, if at all.

Scoop looked inside but it was usually to clang a lob off the backboard. He fed the post occasionally but you're right, BT was better at it. I'm not sure we emphasize those passes inside to our bigs. How many times in his career did Dajuan stand there with his hand up, looking for a pass, only to be ignored?

FH has looked to feed the post on occasion. I hope that happens more often. It's something HW is adept at.

 

[bevosu]

Rak played the 9th most minutes on the team his freshman year and shot 57%. Took the 8th most FG attempts

He shot 53% his soph year...played the 5th most minutes. 5th most FG attempts

Baye was the only player with a higher FG % on those two teams...Baye took limited shots.

Raks junior year he shot 61%...took 5th place in shot attempts..less than half the shots that Grant took in 4th place.

We had some decent guards...MCW...Scoop...Triche...Ennis.

He had the highest FG% on the team every one of those years...not counting totally bench guys. They just didn't attempt to get him the ball until his senior year.

That's on the coach imo.

 

[SWC75]

No one is burying us or our players. Who is writing off our season? The off-season and recruiting is about working to field the best possible team in the fall.

Again, you don't follow recruiting but you want to defend how we have been recruiting. Have any movies you haven't watched that you'd care to review? Oh, I get it. You've read the reviews so you think you can rate the movies.

We've had post after post about how disappointing the recruiting is and how the program is slipping before the recruits or team has played a game. What the coaches say about them has been dismissed as phony or irrelevant. This seems ridiculously premature to me.

What is your basis for rating the recruits? Reading the recruiting boards? Top 100s? Star ratings? Aren't those the equivalent of movie reviews of movies you haven't seen?

I'm not claiming to know any more than the You-Tube highlights show me and the coaches comments cause me to surmise. I don't know how they are going to work out. But I'm hopeful they will be good players and that we will have a good team and see no reason not to be on July 2nd.

 

[RF2044]

We've had post after post about how disappointing the recruiting is and how the program is slipping before the recruits or team has played a game. What the coaches say about them has been dismissed as phony or irrelevant. This seems ridiculously premature to me.

What is your basis for rating the recruits? Reading the recruiting boards? Top 100s? Star ratings? Aren't those the equivalent of movie reviews of movies you haven't seen?

I'm not claiming to know any more than the You-Tube highlights show me and the coaches comments cause me to surmise. I don't know how they are going to work out. But I'm hopeful they will be good players and that we will have a good team and see no reason not to be on July 2nd.

Are you kidding? What's his basis?

SWC, you're really barking up the wrong tree on this one, as anybody who follows hoops recruiting closely know that Iommi is a sports writer who watches most of our recruits first hand.

That's his basis.

 

[Alsacs]

This is getting crazy, Syracuse ranks 100+ SPOTS HIGHER in PPG than Wisconsin Was 2016 and is a couple spots higher in Pomeroy! Yet, instead of any type of statistical backing of your argument you go with "I doubt Syracuse could post 50 on Villanova." Seriously? That's your argument? Some random arbitrary example that was never played out and cannot be backed or verified? This is a perfect example on the lack of objectivity on this board. The fact that you can post what you did, then grab a bunch of likes from the like minded is seriously off-putting. Wisconsin scored 4 points less per game than Syracuse this season, with less adjusted efficiency, and you get backed on that? Ridiculous.

If you think our offense was better than Wisconsin last year I can't disagree anymore.

Wisconsin had Ethan Happ who could post. Bronson Koenig who was a good PG, Nigel Hayes and other role players.

Syracuse offense is stagnant. How people can't be objective about this is baffling. We have no system. Fran Franscilla described our offense as simple and just let the players do their thing.

We run the same offense no matter the personnel. The more non-scoring threats we put on the floor increases the guys who flood the paint.

I don't expect a top 10 offense every year but our offense completely depends on making jump shots and that makes it hard to be a good offense.

 

[007]

Are you kidding? What's his basis?

SWC, you're really barking up the wrong tree on this one, as anybody who follows hoops recruiting closely know that Iommi is a writer who watches most of our recruits first hand.

That's his basis.

Yup. iommi watches many of them play live, often talks with their coaches, and knows the game. I'm sure SWC75 was not aware of most of that background. He is now.

 

[iommi]

We've had post after post about how disappointing the recruiting is and how the program is slipping before the recruits or team has played a game. What the coaches say about them has been dismissed as phony or irrelevant. This seems ridiculously premature to me.

What is your basis for rating the recruits? Reading the recruiting boards? Top 100s? Star ratings? Aren't those the equivalent of movie reviews of movies you haven't seen?

I'm not claiming to know any more than the You-Tube highlights show me and the coaches comments cause me to surmise. I don't know how they are going to work out. But I'm hopeful they will be good players and that we will have a good team and see no reason not to be on July 2nd.

Why do you think people are critical of our recruiting? We have been getting our rear ends handed to us by other programs. We have missed on our top targets. I can go on.

My basis for rating the recruits? Research. I read the ratings, follow guys on Twitter and elsewhere who watch them in person, I watch clips and highlights, all of that. More importantly, I've interviewed some of them and some of their coaches. I've seen some of them play in person, or on tv or on YouTube. Full games. Guys like Matt Moyer. I saw him play and interviewed him twice. Tyus Battle is someone I've followed very closely since he was about 15. Saw him play live a bunch of times. I did a play-by-play writeup that I posted in his recruiting thread of one of Tyus' high school games. I interviewed him before he got to campus. Sidibe I've watched live and on tv several times. I interviewed him. In fact, I interviewed him and his coach literally moments after he committed, then interviewed his coach again near the end of their season to get a progress report. I also interviewed Howard Washington before he came to campus. I also watched two of his games on YouTube. Watching those games, I was able to watch his teammate, Oshae Brissett.
I've also communicated with other people in the know. I'll leave it at that.

To know whether these guys are good, you have to watch them play. I have. The interviews help get an idea as to what they perceive to be strengths and weaknesses, why they chose Syracuse and how they think they will fit in.

I think these players are good players and will do well at Syracuse. When have I said otherwise? You must have me confused with someone else. We could have a good team this coming season, you're absolutely right but our recruiting has taken a downturn. Period.