JB defenders...a message to you...

[realorange]

This is exactly the kind of post I talked about in my original post..."What did you expect JB to do?" I expected he and his staff should monitor #51's work and make sure he's going to class and doing his work on time and complete. What's so hard to understand? We have a staff of education advisors. What were those people doing? I don't need to be "enlightened" to know the ball was dropped. JB is the coach. The buck stops with him.

I stand by my original post.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the staff did exactly as you are intimating they didn't do? It could simply be the old story of leading a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I guess you would have put a gun to his head and threatened his family if he didn't do his class work. Damn JB for not doing that.

 

[Ghost]

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the staff did exactly as you are intimating they didn't do? It could simply be the old story of leading a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I guess you would have put a gun to his head and threatened his family if he didn't do his class work. Damn JB for not doing that.

Yeah, I feel like this would be the reaction if this were pre-Bernie Fine, and it was Mookie and not our starting center. I think our record, the press surrounding us in the wake of a scandal, etc...has increased the sensitivity a bit because it's mixed with so much disappointment.

Hell, Mookie got kicked off a couple weeks ago and I don't remember any posts calling for JB's head due to his lack of control over teh program. It's all misdirected (or somewhat properly directed tbh) anger about losing a key component to what could (and my still be!) a special season.

 

[Millhouse]

That SI article a few weeks back talked about how Boeheim doesn't ask his assistants for help during the games because he knows what he wants to do.

Well, what the hell are the assistants doing then? We're going to hand the job to a guy who doesn't do anything during games except give high fives and isn't able to babysit just because he's able to recruit players to come play for a hall of famer who will let them do whatever they want?

Maybe we should re-evaluate Hopkins recruiting ability. His big selling points are, you get to play for Boeheim and we will leave you alone. Well, Boeheim is 90 years old and can't control his mouth to the media - he won't be here forever - and when he's done, the days of paying no attention to players (and assistants like Fine apparently) will be over. Do we know that Hop can recruit in that environment? Are we comfortable with his ability to think WWJ(B)D during a game considering he has no input now

 

[Dick_in_MI]

One thing is for certain. We can put to rest the statement that all this bad stuff off the court "happens to every other program too". Not anymore. It's just us.

Not sure if you are being serious with this comment or not.

Of the Bernie/drugs/Melo trifecta, Melo bothers me the least. I mean, as a fan it bothers me a LOT.

But other than that, a kid flunked out. It's not an intitutional control type of thing at all. And it does happen at other schools. MSU has had kids flunk out in-season. Of course Izzo also let Mateen Cleaves play through every one of his 3 arrests. Local product Marcus Taylor also miraculously sat behing the MSU bench for 4 years of high school before signing with them, in seats that you or I could not have gotten. So much for institutional control.

I have said elsewhere that the Bernie thing and the drug thing are both black eyes. It might be that in another year the University would have hidden Fab's academic issues too. But if they gave him the boot then that is actually a positive thing despite how the pundits spin it. How many other schools would have booted a key player just before the NCAA's? Few to none.

 

[Ward]

I wonder about how long JB lasts if we get upset early. This is 3 or 4 times this year he has allowed his program to embarrass the university with negative headlines. I'm fully aware that crazy things go on everywhere, but why is it they seem to be able to find ways to slip it under the radar. It may be very ignorant to say but if JB is going to allow all this stuff to go on, would it be too much to ask to just make sure they keep it under wraps? Every winning program has dirt in their program, including Duke and that's a fact. I think, right or wrong, you almost have to be dirty to win and put up with kids who have baggage. It's no coincidence the winningest programs in football and basketball have kids with a lot of off the field/court problems. I guess what I'm saying is if you're going to let the kids run wild at least do a better job at covering it all up or finding ways around the rules. To be honest I don't care if they sent kids to Fabs classes with him and had "tutors" do his work for him, that's what I would guess a majority of big time successful programs do. Because you know what Fab would be playing, and thats how most programs would handle it. If you're going to be crooked just go all the way with it and then make sure you do whatever is necessary to hide the evidence, not keep getting caught.

 

[arbitragegls]

Should JB be fired...NO. Should his program, which is actually Syracuse's program go through a transformation--YES. My concern is that we are having one problem after another seemingly each successive year with the problems being just a tad different year to year. It's no fun having the expectation that something bad is going to happen so the enjoyment of the year...as this year's trip to the NCAA as a #1 seed is sucked out of each of us.
Now however, we need to view the overall program from JB through HOP all the way down insofar as responsibility, actions, etc. JB is the leader and the buck stops there...but what of HOP and others...what are they doing to right the ship and/or keep it on a straight and good path. As a former CEO of a large organization I realize that the head man is the one who lives and dies by the workings of his staff and those below the primary management. But how is this all happening with $100,000s being paid for support staff...and no one steps up and says me bad.

I believe JB survives...with changes. My question is whether HOP and others survive and or should survive based on what is and has taken place over the past several years. A coach in waiting needs to be stronger insofar as players are concerned and the players actions (unless of course JB is truly autocratic).

So before taking JB's head let's determine role responsibilities and then straighten the roles, actions and responsibilities out. Then we can consider who should stay and who should leave.

 

[Millhouse]

Should JB be fired...NO. Should his program, which is actually Syracuse's program go through a transformation--YES. My concern is that we are having one problem after another seemingly each successive year with the problems being just a tad different year to year. It's no fun having the expectation that something bad is going to happen so the enjoyment of the year...as this year's trip to the NCAA as a #1 seed is sucked out of each of us.
Now however, we need to view the overall program from JB through HOP all the way down insofar as responsibility, actions, etc. JB is the leader and the buck stops there...but what of HOP and others...what are they doing to right the ship and/or keep it on a straight and good path. As a former CEO of a large organization I realize that the head man is the one who lives and dies by the workings of his staff and those below the primary management. But how is this all happening with $100,000s being paid for support staff...and no one steps up and says me bad.

I believe JB survives...with changes. My question is whether HOP and others survive and or should survive based on what is and has taken place over the past several years. A coach in waiting needs to be stronger insofar as players are concerned and the players actions (unless of course JB is truly autocratic).

So before taking JB's head let's determine role responsibilities and then straighten the roles, actions and responsibilities out. Then we can consider who should stay and who should leave.

and if he's autocratic, we shouldn't be handing the job over to someone who doesn't make any decisions.

either way, this sucks for hop. goes back to him running his own program somewhere else

 

[RoysRunts]

It all begins at the Program

 

[dasher]

Hop is the next coach. End of story. The University made a deal with him. He said no to Charlotte for big bucks because of that deal. Hop also runs half of every practice. That is coaching. Anyone think Knight asked his assistants for advice?

 

[PhatOrange]

Is it really the moral high ground? Or is it just the min expected? This year we have been hit with 3 blockbuster events. I have always been one of jb's biggest supporters but the program has lacked discipline for his 36 years. It just has. And over the last few years we have been making excuses for kids when we shouldn't have been. Edelin, Devo, the list does go on.

In 36 years they're are bound to be some bad apples.

We're Syracuse because of JB - period. If a few bad things happen along the way b/c JB isn't a babysitter, then so be it, I'd rather we have what we have than be like Northwestern.

People who believe we can have dictator type structure and discipline, with a team full of choir boys and still win as much as we win are FOS and living in fantasy land.

 

[dollarbill44]

There are too many people who think they know what goes on behind the scenes with this program (and other D1 programs) when in reality, very few on here do.

He's not Pat Knight. He's not going to publicly berate everyone in his program that messes up, whether that is a player, an assistant coach, an academic advisor, etc. Unless you are an insider, you don't know if these things get addressed internally.

This is likely why JB is so defensive - everyone knows what he should be doing all the time and they're not afraid to tell him. He doesn't take criticism well and he has admitted as much. I can imagine it is frustrating to have everyone tell you every time you make a mistake, or what they think is a mistake. There aren't many people who can take that for 35+ years. Why do you think there aren't many coaches that last very long? Which leads me to my next point, that JB's teams have had seemingly so many "issues". If we were going through a new coach every 5-7 years like most programs, you don't have one coach accumulate "bad apples".

 

[kcsu]

This is about a player who decided his future without any regard for his teamates. At best Fab Melo is a spoiled petulant child. At worst Fab is a bully who beats up his girl friend. In either case Fab is lazy and not very bright. He will never be welcome in Syracuse again and i doubt that he has much of a run in the NBA. As to JB he is what he is and isnt going to change.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

This is 3 or 4 times this year he [Boeheim] has allowed his program to embarrass the university with negative headlines. I'm fully aware that crazy things go on everywhere, but why is it they seem to be able to find ways to slip it under the radar. It may be very ignorant to say but if JB is going to allow all this stuff to go on, would it be too much to ask to just make sure they keep it under wraps? quote]

Really?? Just...wow. JB ALLOWS his program to embarrass the university? Allows?? So you are telling us you believe that JB was fully aware of Bernie Fine's strange affection toward Bobby Davis? You believe Boehaim encouraged Laurie Fine and another assistant coach's wife to ball his players? You believe JB encouraged Melo to cheat on tests and plagarize papers??

With fans like these who needs Georgetown?

 

[Victory Lap]

Hop is the next coach. End of story. The University made a deal with him. He said no to Charlotte for big bucks because of that deal.

Don't think for a second that Hop turning down $$ to stay at Syracuse will guarantee him the job. I can't imagine the chancellor or AD seriously considering that as a reason to keep him. Of course, that is assuming **** hits the fan, of which I'm not convinced. Regardless, Hop's foregoing of another job will not save him.

 

[Garbs]

Don't think for a second that Hop turning down $$ to stay at Syracuse will guarantee him the job. I can't imagine the chancellor or AD seriously considering that as a reason to keep him. Of course, that is assuming **** hits the fan, of which I'm not convinced. Regardless, Hop's foregoing of another job will not save him.

I think he means that Hop has it in his contract that he is the next head coach

 

[44cuse]

That's kind of my point. Do you live in Raleigh? I don't know that that's true. Would you think Iowa had lots of troubelmakers? Probably not, but from living there - I know they did at least while I was there. It just usually never hits the radar - Pierre Pierce was the exception, but he probably assaulted half the city before he was finally removed from the team (bit of an exaggeration). Illinois had problems, you never hear about them though.

People in Iowa (prior to Bernie) would probably have said Syracuse runs a clean program unless they were around and recall back when we were on probation. I just kind of assume all these elite schools have the same problems.

I don't know, I just assume we all have bad eggs - and mostly the stories stay local or get covered up altogether.

The fact that we do not run the tightest most disciplined ship is not an unknown in the world of basketball. One of this programs selling points, for better or for worse, has been the freedom players are allowed here. Duke is military precision...Cuse is Fab Melo eating hot dogs outside the team hotel in NYC at the BET at 9:30PM.

It doesn't make me love our program any less. But to pretend that there are not different styles of programs (not saying you were doing that) is crazy. Some may like our profile, others may not. But it is what it is.

44cuse

 

[dollarbill44]

The fact that we do not run the tightest most disciplined ship is not an unknown in the world of basketball. One of this programs selling points, for better or for worse, has been the freedom players are allowed here. Duke is military precision...Cuse is Fab Melo eating hot dogs outside the team hotel in NYC at the BET at 9:30PM.

44cuse

Holy crap! They let the players outside? Now I see what people have been saying about a lack of institutional control.

 

[Victory Lap]

I think he means that Hop has it in his contract that he is the next head coach

Understood, but I promise you the University's lawyers can get out of that. That shouldn't be a problem for any semi-competent attorney.

 

[AirForceOrange]

their record might end up being 2 and 33 once the vacating is done

Why are you a poster on a Syracuse FAN Message Board? Just wondering, as a fan to me is some one who supports their team through the good and the bad times, not calls for the head of the coach, players and anyone else associated with the team when things aren't going right.

I wish people would wait until ALL the facts come out from these issues and then allow the school leadership (AD, President, Board of Trustees, etc.) look at the facts and make the decision to do what is best for the team and university.

 

[44cuse]

Holy crap! They let the players outside? Now I see what people have been saying about a lack of institutional control.

Poor example. But examples weren't the point. There are plenty of other examples on here over the last couple of days.

44cuse

 

[Cusefan95]

Understood, but I promise you the University's lawyers can get out of that. That shouldn't be a problem for any semi-competent attorney.

If the university is willing to meet Hopkins price, they can have an amicable divorce. If not, it turns into another messy as hell disaster that paints the university in a bad light and paves the way for Syracuse to turn into the next Depaul or Houston (which may happen anyway).

 

[KingOtis]

You would probably be thrilled if upstanding Tom Izzo was the next coach here, because he runs a super-clean program, but if any of the many rumors about that team over the years are true that program has had years that were worse than ours by a large margin. I'm sure somewhere here can back me up on this - I know we have a few midwesterners.

Consider this a confirmation. My brother went to MSU. They sweep everything under the rug up there.

 

[br801]

If the university is willing to meet Hopkins price, they can have an amicable divorce. If not, it turns into another messy as hell disaster that paints the university in a bad light and paves the way for Syracuse to turn into the next Depaul or Houston (which may happen anyway).

I'm pretty sure the Mayans predicted this exact scenario would come to pass.

 

[KingOtis]

Duke doesn't seem to have any problems, but we hate them.

Remember Quin Snyder? You probably haven't heard a quarter of what he did while he was the HC at Mizzou. And he wasn't just a Coach K disciple. He was THE Coach K disciple.

 

[moqui]

If only we had a tough as nails disciplinarian, or maybe a straight-as-a-string, humble model of probity and rectitude, then nothing embarrassing to the University would ever occur