JB Extension=Damage Control

[JOC44]

While this may be true, it does not warrant an extension. The AD had an out, let JB stay a year then find his man.

Even if that remains the plan, you still extend JB because if you don't you can't recruit. That's the reason college football coaches often get rolling extensions so they have five years remaining in their deals. It lets them tell recruits they aren't going anywhere.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Even if that remains the plan, you still extend JB because if you don't you can't recruit.

Um, recruits aren't naive. Coaches who negatively recruit against us also aren't naive. They will still beat the drum that JB could retire or kick the bucket at any time. The level of uncertainty hasn't improved - it's only gotten worse and potentially dragged out indefinitely.

 

[Townie72]

I have supported JB with his many flaws over this past season. But truth be told, I was looking forward to his retirement and Hops taking over the team. Or even another bright up coming coach. JB appeared to be going out his way. Now I fear he may not get to go out his way. At his age the odds are that he'll be asked to leave (never every fired!) due to coaching inadequacies , or worse have to step do due to health reason. Now with a HCIW gone and an even more inexperienced head assistant coach on the bench, that does not bode well. Imagine JB going down during OOC play and not being able to return. These things never work out well.

As a retiree, I have seen things go two ways. Guys in their 70's dieing on the job, or working successfully while approaching 80.

As a fellow retiree, I'm surprised you don't have more empathy for JB.

This idea that he is hanging on for dear life and engineered this doesn't square with my experience. Especially if the person doesn't need the money and has other interests beyond the job. (There are people who only enjoy working and/or are working because they have to.)

When I watch JB he radiates what I felt at the end of my working days, a lack of patience with the BS and the lies that underlie all "corporate" jobs. Telling a reporter. "That's a stupid question." said it all to me.

 

[Townie72]

This will not end well. Think 'icons' like JoePa or Bobby Bowden wearing drool bibs and 'coaching' from some tower a half mile from the field. Plus they were basically reduced to the role of being wheeled in and closing with starry-eyed recruits while others did the real coaching. Does that sound like JB to you?

This was a game of chicken and the AD blinked first.

I love what Jim has done for us and the school, but history is doomed to repeat itself. I wish they'd stood firm.

You are assuming that JB drove this. Any evidence to support that?

What if it were Wildhack who didn't have any confidence in Hop's ability to do the HC job at SU? Especially after this season's brief guest coach appearance.

If you are depending on JB's statemetns to support your claims, then consider that JB knew what was going on internally and didn't want to tell people lies. So he hedged and hedged.

 

[Antiprodigy]

Most people on here are looking at this from the inside. And many of those doing so, are looking with clouded glasses. Including some very knowledgeable posters.

From the outside, except for the most ardent college basketball fan, this at worst looks like SU is losing a long time assistant coach. Most people will see an assistant coach making a move for more money and a HC position. It is a no-brainer. That's what assistant coaches do.

The response by the school is to publicly announce a significant extension for its HC. This really is not an uncommon occurrence. At the hint of an event rocking the boat, you show signs of support for the current administration.

Too many people reading way too much into things. Especially with much more advanced knowledge (ie. prejudices) about the program.

 

[SBU72]

As a fellow retiree, I'm surprised you don't have more empathy for JB.

This idea that he is hanging on for dear life and engineered this doesn't square with my experience. Especially if the person doesn't need the money and has other interests beyond the job. (There are people who only enjoy working and/or are working because they have to.)

When I watch JB he radiates what I felt at the end of my working days, a lack of patience with the BS and the lies that underlie all "corporate" jobs. Telling a reporter. "That's a stupid question." said it all to me.

Actually I really don't. As I pointed out I have seen both sides of the health issue. I never understood why guys stay in their jobs so long. What I didn't say that the healthy 75+ yr old was/is not performing up to even the company standards much less his own. There are plenty of other jobs associated with b-ball that would have welcomed JB expertise. My fear is that he could do more harm than good.

 

[JazzNC]

JazzNC, are you crazy? ("Truth is none of us actually know what went down.".

Read these posts. Do you see any doubt in these people's minds or posts?

Of course, those that don't like JB and never have, seem to have one set of facts. And those that think the program is dying slowly have another set of facts.

I have ventured a guess, but I think I have couched it in those terms. It's just a guess.

Read what each of their interpretations are and you can pretty well figure out where they are coming from. These positions reflect their longstanding biases.

We are all speculating, myself included.

That said, one thing that has not been mentioned, and is relevant whether you believe what was said in the press conference or you think otherwise...

Basketball is a business and colleges are corporations. You can apply this to the coaching situation and Lydon's situation.

If you are the owner of a big name company and things become unsettled your first responsibility is to calm the storm and reclaim your brand name. None of us know what the truth at SU is. If you think the comments by Boeheim and SU were not scripted, you likely don't understand business. Maybe JB will stay for 5 more years, maybe it was a damage control statement, we don't know. But SU is just a corporation trying to maintain its image. They believe saying JB staying for 5 more years helps their brand, and keeps recruits from bailing. I love JB, and think he's earned this chance...I'm just not particularly optimistic that he can get it done because of how difficult it is to recruit when you're in limbo, and other schools will negatively recruit against us.

As for Lydon, he's taking the money. He's never going to be a superstar NBA player, but he has the opportunity to secure his financial future. He's taking care of his brand, and I don't blame him.

 

[Townie72]

We are all speculating, myself included.

That said, one thing that has not been mentioned, and is relevant whether you believe what was said in the press conference or you think otherwise...

Basketball is a business and colleges are corporations. You can apply this to the coaching situation and Lydon's situation.

If you are the owner of a big name company and things become unsettled your first responsibility is to calm the storm and reclaim your brand name. None of us know what the truth at SU is. If you think the comments by Boeheim and SU were not scripted, you likely don't understand business. Maybe JB will stay for 5 more years, maybe it was a damage control statement, we don't know. But SU is just a corporation trying to maintain its image. They believe saying JB staying for 5 more years helps their brand, and keeps recruits from bailing. I love JB, and think he's earned this chance...I'm just not particularly optimistic that he can get it done because of how difficult it is to recruit when you're in limbo, and other schools will negatively recruit against us.

As for Lydon, he's taking the money. He's never going to be a superstar NBA player, but he has the opportunity to secure his financial future. He's taking care of his brand, and I don't blame him.

Of course they talked about what they were going to say before the PC.

But the idea that the thing was "scripted" is bizarre. JB went off on his own tangent. His agenda seemed to be to stick it to the reporters that had gotten it wrong. He was bristling at the suggestions that he had engineered Hop's departure and that he is too old and that he is uninvolved in recruiting or practices.

Widhack was pouring oil on the waters. JB was on the attack.

The sports local sports press had gone off the deep end looking for and or imagining the sensational. These guys are, of course, the very bottom of the journalism totem pole. I love to see them slapped around with a dose of "Here's what really happened."

Now as to business knowledge. I spent 40 years in responsible positions in Marketing and Planning for Fortune 100 corporations. I have been involved in the planning for and conduct of dozens of press interactions to explain what we were doing and why.

Your own understanding of the difference between corporations and universities seems a bit weak. My wife worked at a senior position at a very prominent university. Her descriptions of how things worked in her world left me slack-jawed. No corporation could or would operate like they do. That's why the operation of the athletic departments is so frequently screwed up.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Of course they talked about what they were going to say before the PC.

But the idea that the thing was "scripted" is bizarre. JB went off on his own tangent. His agenda seemed to be to stick it to the reporters that had gotten it wrong. He was bristling at the suggestions that he had engineered Hop's departure and that he is too old and that he is uninvolved in recruiting or practices.

Widhack was pouring oil on the waters. JB was on the attack.

The sports local sports press had gone off the deep end looking for and or imagining the sensational. These guys are, of course, the very bottom of the journalism totem pole. I love to see them slapped around with a dose of "Here's what really happened."

Now as to business knowledge. I spent 40 years in responsible positions in Marketing and Planning for Fortune 100 corporations. I have been involved in the planning for and conduct of dozens of press interactions to explain what we were doing and why.

Your own understanding of the difference between corporations and universities seems a bit weak. My wife worked at a senior position at a very prominent university. Her descriptions of how things worked in her world left me slack-jawed. No corporation could or would operate like they do. That's why the operation of the athletic departments is so frequently screwed up.

We all know your "wife" is secretly Jimmy

 

[Townie72]

We all know your "wife" is secretly Jimmy

Why do you continually waste space on here with these absolutely insipid attempts at humor?

 

[SoBeCuse]

So is this extension just so for short term recruiting stability? Will he actually stay beyond next year?

I don't necessarily think that an extension means he's going to be around that much longer.

That is my perception as well. Wildhack said things like "best option RIGHT NOW" and "you always have your ear to the ground." In the immediate it is the best idea probably to stabilize recruiting I would imagine and keep continuity with current players rather than wholesale changes. But those will come sooner than later, IMO.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Why do you continually waste space on here with these absolutely insipid attempts at humor?

brb... googling insipid definition

 

[Townie72]

That is my perception as well. Wildhack said things like "best option RIGHT NOW" and "you always have your ear to the ground." In the immediate it is the best idea probably to stabilize recruiting I would imagine and keep continuity with current players rather than wholesale changes. But those will come sooner than later, IMO.

Or they won't, depending on what the ear to the ground hears.

 

[Forloveoforange]

You are assuming that JB drove this. Any evidence to support that?

What if it were Wildhack who didn't have any confidence in Hop's ability to do the HC job at SU? Especially after this season's brief guest coach appearance.

If you are depending on JB's statemetns to support your claims, then consider that JB knew what was going on internally and didn't want to tell people lies. So he hedged and hedged.

The guest coach appearance was last year, but yes, that could be what changed everything. I don't think it was necessarily the losses, but maybe just persona.

Its kind of strange that a coach-in-waiting situation was ever made.

Lets just take it one year at a time. And quit freaking out.

Lets see if the players will actually do what Coach wants them to do next year, like guard 3 point shooters. If we could have guarded 3 point shooters this year, we would have been fine.

 

[NineOneSeven]

The guest coach appearance was last year, but yes, that could be what changed everything. I don't think it was necessarily the losses, but maybe just persona.

Its kind of strange that a coach-in-waiting situation was ever made.

Lets just take it one year at a time. And quit freaking out.

Lets see if the players will actually do what Coach wants them to do next year, like guard 3 point shooters. If we could have guarded 3 point shooters this year, we would have been fine.

That's it? Very wrong.

 

[Forloveoforange]

That's it? Very wrong.

I didn't say very fine, so how is that very wrong? Maybe I should have said finer.

 

[JazzNC]

Of course they talked about what they were going to say before the PC.

But the idea that the thing was "scripted" is bizarre. JB went off on his own tangent. His agenda seemed to be to stick it to the reporters that had gotten it wrong. He was bristling at the suggestions that he had engineered Hop's departure and that he is too old and that he is uninvolved in recruiting or practices.

Widhack was pouring oil on the waters. JB was on the attack.

The sports local sports press had gone off the deep end looking for and or imagining the sensational. These guys are, of course, the very bottom of the journalism totem pole. I love to see them slapped around with a dose of "Here's what really happened."

Now as to business knowledge. I spent 40 years in responsible positions in Marketing and Planning for Fortune 100 corporations. I have been involved in the planning for and conduct of dozens of press interactions to explain what we were doing and why.

Your own understanding of the difference between corporations and universities seems a bit weak. My wife worked at a senior position at a very prominent university. Her descriptions of how things worked in her world left me slack-jawed. No corporation could or would operate like they do. That's why the operation of the athletic departments is so frequently screwed up.

I don't really know where to begin to respond to this. You have made many incorrect assumptions about me, my background, experience, etc. You seem to have taken it personally.

I'm merely stating a plausible opinion which you happen to disagree with. That's ok. But to throw around credentials or imply that your opinion has more credence than mine is not only disrespectful but incorrect.

The fact is unless you yourself are JB, you don't know what went down. Of course Universities are not run exactly like corporations, but the concept that they are money driven with a brand to protect is true.

Just like when SU was in the midst of the Bernie Fine scandal, I'm sure there was agreement about what would be discussed, and congruency in responses was paramount. All I'm saying is that I'm sure they were all on the same page before this press conference. In that respect, it was scripted with agreed upon ad lib.

If you think this press conference was not delivered to pacify the media and fans, I suggest you are perhaps a bit naive.

But let's end this on a positive note. We are all on this board because we are SU fans. Let's hope that SU, JB and Wildhack have played their hand wisely and JB retires with another National Championship. We're really not on opposite teams...we're all just guessing. ✌

 

[FrancoPizza]

If we could have guarded 3 point shooters this year, we would have been fine.

The problem is the college basketball landscape is evolving... and lowering the ceiling of the 2-3 zone's effectiveness, especially when it is the only thing an opponent has to prepare for. Can we stop pretending that players and coaches don't adapt? Look at the triple option in football. It had a period of success before its effectiveness diminished. This is not crazy talk.

Does this mean we abandon the zone? No - it has its usefulness but it needs to be considered a situational weapon. And, as teams like Louisville show us in year in and year out, there are various pressure packages that can be deployed in tandem with a zone to disrupt tempo. Based on the presser and 21 years of history, there are zero signs that JB will think outside his box even as he's been given a new lease on his career. It will be a very short lease if he doesn't take his blinders off, unfortunately. One more NIT may be JB's final curtain call.