JB on ESPN2 talking Red

[Dcuse]

Red has known JJ since he was a kid and he doubled down on him for three seasons. Did he miss something?

Yes, he forgot to get out his crystal ball to see JJ would hurt his shoulder and hand causing a ridiculous click in his release making it near impossible to make even a free throw. That's on the coach.

 

[phil77]

Also, players are supposed to get better on their own. Thats just a known thing. This hand holding thing that development is purely on the coach is outrageous. And these guys were not going above and beyond to get better. I played high level division 1 sport and not once did I blame my coach for not preparing me or anything like that, it was on me. And if I played poorly, I owned up to it and worked my butt off to prevent it for the future

I do agree that the players should be working hard on their individual skills with direction from the staff. A coaching staff needs to be proactive and tell the player what to work on and help them make adjustments, like shooting form. Post moves. How to react to a double team etc They should do some technical coaching, and then the players should take the technical coaching and work on it on their own time if they want to be great.

One thing I will be putting responsibility on the coaches is being able to put players in the correct positions to maximize their talents while also helping the team overall.

If they are lazy and not hustling, pull them out and coach them as to why they are pulled out and put them back in.

If you are telling them in the huddle to do one thing and a players does something different than what you want, pull him from the game, coach him up, and put him back in.

If Donnie is sitting at the three-point line doing nothing, tell him to get is ACE into the post and in the paint and if he doesn't pull him out of the game explain to him what is going on and put him back in.

If JJ isn't passing off his drives where he creates tons of space for players and instead chucking up some of those weird ACE shots, then pull him out the game, tell him what you need, and get him back in.

 

[Cuse99&01]

Now the lead headline on ESPN.com:

Jim Boeheim says Syracuse players cost Adrian Autry his job

Jim Boeheim defended Adrian Autry as "a good coach," saying his dismissal at Syracuse was a result of poor performance by the Orange's best players and lack of NIL funding.

www.espn.com

This is really, really bad. Someone needs to shut him up. He's poisoning the well.

This can't be helpful for bringing future recruits/transfers in. I guess having him around (as whatever his job title was) to help with the transition of Autry to head coach could be rationalized 3 years ago, I can't see what the benefit of having him around with the new AD and coach would be.

 

[Fly Rodder]

The search function here is fantastic. Every offseason from May up to the start of the season is littered with posts from people about how great the players are going to be. Then November and December they shift to about how the players are under performing and then January to March is about how the players suck, and can't wait for the next crop. Rinse, repeat.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Yes, he forgot to get out his crystal ball to see JJ would hurt his shoulder and hand causing a ridiculous click in his release making it near impossible to make even a free throw. That's on the coach.

So, the coach continues to start him and pays him a million-plus? It doesn't take a crystal ball. That's basic observation.

 

[Cuse99&01]

The search function here is fantastic. Every offseason from May up to the start of the season is littered with posts from people about how great the players are going to be. Then November and December they shift to about how the players are under performing and then January to March is about how the players suck, and can't wait for the next crop. Rinse, repeat.

^this is spot on

 

[LAorange44]

The search function here is fantastic. Every offseason from May up to the start of the season is littered with posts from people about how great the players are going to be. Then November and December they shift to about how the players are under performing and then January to March is about how the players suck, and can't wait for the next crop. Rinse, repeat.

Cycle of hope whether it applies to players or coaches

 

[Sdot]

Yes, he forgot to get out his crystal ball to see JJ would hurt his shoulder and hand causing a ridiculous click in his release making it near impossible to make even a free throw. That's on the coach.

Red and co knew about JJ shoulder injury before he even signed with cuse.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Yes, he forgot to get out his crystal ball to see JJ would hurt his shoulder and hand causing a ridiculous click in his release making it near impossible to make even a free throw. That's on the coach.

this you from March 2024?

Oh good...another poster that thinks JJ is no good.

 

[Dcuse]

Red and co knew about JJ shoulder injury before he even signed with cuse.

Really? and he knew it would linger to the point where his shot would never come back?

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Yes, he forgot to get out his crystal ball to see JJ would hurt his shoulder and hand causing a ridiculous click in his release making it near impossible to make even a free throw. That's on the coach.

The shoulder thing happened before he came to Syracuse, right? That should have been the end of that recruitment. Or after his first unsuccessful season at SU. Sometimes you have to cut a guy loose. Especially a 2G who can’t shoot.

 

[MSOrange]

Yes, he forgot to get out his crystal ball to see JJ would hurt his shoulder and hand causing a ridiculous click in his release making it near impossible to make even a free throw. That's on the coach.

But maybe it's not a good idea to build a team with said player being a key part. Is that his fault at all?

 

[Dcuse]

So, the coach continues to start him and pays him a million-plus? It doesn't take a crystal ball. That's basic observation.

Only for you and this guy.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Dec 2, 2023

JJ Starling is Louis McCrosky but worse on the defensive end.

Benny doesn’t belong on the court.

Copeland would be excellent playing at the Rucker but not in organized basketball.

McLeod is the same guy who barely played for a 9 win team last year.

If the players are going to be blamed for not executing Red’s plan then Red needs to sit them immediately, if these guys are executing his plan then he needs to change things up immediately. He needs to realize that his job is going to ultimately depend on this group of sophomores, after last season and through this one thus far I wouldn’t bet on them.

Incorrect. He will be judged on how the team with his own recruits does.

And judged he has been. Relieved of his job. And you and Jim are here blaming the players. You've been shaming posters for being critical of JJ for three years and now you're shaming posters for being critical of Red because the players failed him and weren't good afterall. At least you're consistently wrong.

 

[CuseTG2003]

This can't be helpful for bringing future recruits/transfers in. I guess having him around (as whatever his job title was) to help with the transition of Autry to head coach could be rationalized 3 years ago, I can't see what the benefit of having him around with the new AD and coach would be.

My thoughts exactly. He's not wrong about the players, but he's wrong about Red. Just wish he'd keep his thoughts to himself.

 

[pearl31]

So, the coach continues to start him and pays him a million-plus? It doesn't take a crystal ball. That's basic observation.

this this this

 

[PoppyHart]

JB spent 45+ years not taking accountability. This is just the latest example.

Of course, nothing that occurs in a team environment (sports, office work, musical/theatrical productions) are ever 100% one person's fault. It's a communal effort. But it's completely disingenuous imo to say that Red doesn't deserve the lion's share of the blame here. Not close to a 50-50 split.

If Red had one iota of a track record, then one could try to point to JJ, Freeman etc... as coach killers. But he doesn't have that rope, and even if he did, it would be his responsibility to course correct, mitigate deficiencies, etc...

As many have pointed out, nobody forced him to retain JJ, and many saw the writing on the wall. Freeman had a terrible attitude on several occasions. Was he ever benched?

His record in the second half of games, many of which were close at halftime, was abysmal. In 3 years, it's hard to think of a game where you look back and say, "man, we had no business winning that game. we really stole that one".

 

[JRHEETER]

Yes, he forgot to get out his crystal ball to see JJ would hurt his shoulder and hand causing a ridiculous click in his release making it near impossible to make even a free throw. That's on the coach.

Its on the coach that kept playing him extended minutes

 

[sufandu]

Also, players are supposed to get better on their own. Thats just a known thing. This hand holding thing that development is purely on the coach is outrageous. And these guys were not going above and beyond to get better. I played high level division 1 sport and not once did I blame my coach for not preparing me or anything like that, it was on me. And if I played poorly, I owned up to it and worked my butt off to prevent it for the future

I think the players hold a higher level of responsibility for improving individual skills. It's on the coach to teach them how to operate as a team. As disjointed as the team appeared far too often, I put more on the coaching. However, I agree the players needed to do more. Free throw shooting is 100% player responsibility.

 

[emjkay]

Hasn't JB done enough damage to this program?. Now his knee jerk reaction when asked is to put blame on two people. .These players didn't make poor coaching decisions.

 

[Brooky03]

This can't be helpful for bringing future recruits/transfers in. I guess having him around (as whatever his job title was) to help with the transition of Autry to head coach could be rationalized 3 years ago, I can't see what the benefit of having him around with the new AD and coach would be.

The job doesn’t change his access to media/interviews. It’s not like firing him makes him go away.

And nobody has explained to me yet how any of this would affect recruiting appreciably. He’s not part of the program in any meaningful way, as we know. Recruits wouldn’t be in contact with him except if they wanted to shake his hand or something, I suppose. Recruits are/will be aware of SU’s NIL situation regardless of what anybody says publicly. Recruits care about the zeroes on the checks being written to them. Recruits are involved, to a degree, in conversations about the teammates they’ll have, so “well I’ll get paid, but will I be playing with bums?” is barely a consideration, if at all.

Being kind-ish towards Red obviously doesn’t affect recruits. Dumping on two players who objectively played below expectations wouldn’t affect recruits; these are D1 athletes who hold themselves to high standards. A dude on the periphery being critical isn’t something they’re going to be worried about.

What am I missing? ‘It puts Syracuse in a bad light.’ So? The nearly dead program with figurative and literal dark clouds overhead wasn’t portrayed as all unicorns and rainbows? …. And that’s… bad?

 

[SanDiegoCuse]

Its on the coach that kept playing him extended minutes

And paying him ridiculous money to return.

 

[Sdot]

Really? and he knew it would linger to the point where his shot would never come back?

They knew it was a nagging injury. And don’t forget JJ did not get that hitch until his start of junior year really.

 

[Scooch]

The search function here is fantastic. Every offseason from May up to the start of the season is littered with posts from people about how great the players are going to be. Then November and December they shift to about how the players are under performing and then January to March is about how the players suck, and can't wait for the next crop. Rinse, repeat.

Nailed it.

Same applies to NIL recently. Every summer we have plenty, built the roster we wanted, etc. Then by March we hear that we’re poor and it’s amazing we can even pay the electric bill at the Dome.

 

[Scooch]

It’s funny that Boeheim picked on Starling.

Boeheim is why JJ didn’t come here originally.