Jb trashes Kenpom in presser | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Jb trashes Kenpom in presser

OrangeDW said:
How come you never posted when the team was winning?
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Why should that matter? I think it’s more disturbing that some people have excel spreadsheets tracking posting patterns.
 
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I can't even listen to this whole thing without wanting to throw my shoe at the computer.

1) He mentions this team "isn't good enough" and with "the resources it has", isn't good enough and is playing as well as it can.

Let me ask you this, Jimbo -- who is responsible for this team not being good enough? Who is responsible for these players not being talented enough to compete?

2) He has a line at the 7:45 mark regarding how they've played 25 pretty good games and this one wasn't good. Has the old man forgotten about Brooklyn? How about the season opener against Virginia that netted a cool 34 points?

Ridiculous.
 
BurrowsSMG said:
Hey, Jim wasn't yelling at me citing KenPom this time! I did pull Buddy's numbers on Synergy and teams attack him over 13 percent of the time, which is the most on the team. I think Girard is around 11 percent and no one else is above 6 if I remember correctly. Buddy also grades into the 25th percentile defensively which is by far the worst among the regulars. I think JG is the next closest at like 31 percent.

The percentile grades are based on points per possession and Synergy pays a lot of money for people to sit there and watch play-by-play, which is why NBA and college teams pay a lot of money to use it.
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So he was mad someone pointed out that Buddy is bad on defense?
 
bpo57 said:
I see kenpom's top ten with Ohio State, WV and Michigan State in it. Yikes. Hard to take it too seriously. Those three don't deserve to be in anybody's top 20.
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You tend to get some fairly significant deviations from KP to AP rankings, once you get to about #8 for example since it is margin based rather than W/L based. Like all good analytics they should still never be taken as gospel, since they have known limitations.

If I gave you 7 to 1 odds for the following group to win the National Title would you take it? Based on KenPom rankings in Mid-December, I took 10 teams that had strong KP rankings but were still lagging in odds to win the National Title, with a targeted fixed payout. **

Baylor 50-1
Florida St 80-1
Butler 125-1
Purdue 80-1
Ohio St 28-1
Iowa 125-1
Penn St 80-1
Seton Hall 80-1
West Virginia 70-1
San Diego St 70-1

If I had avoided Ohio St, which cost me the most, it would be 9-1. For the most part the KP rankings projected fairly well as all those teams with the exception of Ohio St.

** I am a pansy when it comes to betting so the payout is low.
 
This wasn’t that bad.

But, didn’t HE bring up KenPom? Without provocation? As a way to justify his being snappish for no reason? Not sure what set him off.

He’s either missing the point or glossing over the idea of us ‘not having enough guys.’

“The whole game’s changed—you can play as long as you want.” That sounds kinda oppo-Trumpian, in his explanations about exercise.

Why is he so bent about someone writing about us being tired? Who wrote that? Maybe he should give them a reason why we sorta suck at the ends of halves instead of just hammering that no one ever gets tired.
 
MikeSU02 said:
Check the responses to this tweet. JB def got his “advanced stats” person wrong on this one.

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BurrowsSMG said:
Hey, Jim wasn't yelling at me citing KenPom this time! I did pull Buddy's numbers on Synergy and teams attack him over 13 percent of the time, which is the most on the team. I think Girard is around 11 percent and no one else is above 6 if I remember correctly. Buddy also grades into the 25th percentile defensively which is by far the worst among the regulars. I think JG is the next closest at like 31 percent.

The percentile grades are based on points per possession and Synergy pays a lot of money for people to sit there and watch play-by-play, which is why NBA and college teams pay a lot of money to use it.
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I get why he doesn't believe them.

For his entire career part of his competitive edge has been his intuitive sense for the game and what matters. It was a trait unique to him and his brain. There's absolutely zero way he could explain why certain things were true about basketball, they just were, and it was self-evident and known to him. And those facts manifested themselves in his winning record.

Now, some nerds come along and have cracked that code. Add on to it that analytics just kinda seem punitive and feel like the stats want to be a dick to players depending on the story told with them, and then it's his son under the microscope, and some dissonance sets in, because the thing is - that intuitive Boeheim sense is fully aware of Buddy's limitations, but in his calculus, he's decided on the net Buddy is worth it, and that's what matters, how the math gets you there doesn't. But certain analytics look at things much more granularly, and part of Boeheim's wizardry is that he can cut to the chase on all of that. And he doesn't really want to deal with your crap, Pomery and Synergy, because sure, maybe you have some analytical insights... but you don't win basketball games like Jim Boeheim does. Andohbythewayleavemysonoutofthis.

I think that's where he's coming from, and I get it.
 
Love me some JB. A few thoughts:
  • That paper fold at the end of the presser is simply awesome. "This presser is over"
  • This team has great heart, but they don't have great talent. Unfortunate, but that is the reality.
  • The idea of JB respecting Kenpom reminds me of the scene in moneyball where the old scouts are flabbergasted by this young whippersnapper. It's simply not going to happen.
  • JB is going to get some size in here next season come hell or high water. There is no way he is going to watch his team get bullied inside like this for another season. Hello, transfer portal, souls are on sale here.
  • JB is what he is - a great coach. 20 years from now we will all look back and remember that.
 
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People on this board are upset about this presser? I thought he stated the obvious. The fact that we haven't won as many games as we would like does not negate his frustration regarding the efficacy of specific stats. The point of this presser IMO, is that Louisville is better than us and no statistical analysis will change that. We would have had to be a different team or have a fantastic night to win against them. Why are the people on this thread so confused about this? Now, who is at fault for the deficiencies has been and will continue to be a part of many threads.
 
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tptcuse said:
People on his board are upset about this presser? I thought he stated the obvious. The fact that we haven't won as many games as we would like does not negate his frustration regarding the efficacy of specific stats. The point of this presser IMO, is that Louisville is better than us and no statistical analysis will change that. We would have had to be a different team or have a fantastic night to win against them. Why are the people on this thread so confused about this? Now, who is at fault for the deficiencies has been and will continue to be a part of many threads.
[/QUOTE

JB should demand the firing of the GM. ]
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He is who he is. At his age after so much success its sad to see him so thin skinned but its part of his DNA.
I thought his presser was fine other than that. He defended and praised the kids more than usual. He was honest in his assessment of the game and the team in general. Facts are facts. We are an average team that fights hard and benefits from a HOF coach. We lack talent at the 4 and 5 positions.
Until that is rectified we will remain an average team.
 
jncuse said:
You tend to get some fairly significant deviations from KP to AP rankings, once you get to about #8 for example since it is margin based rather than W/L based. Like all good analytics they should still never be taken as gospel, since they have known limitations.

If I gave you 7 to 1 odds for the following group to win the National Title would you take it? Based on KenPom rankings in Mid-December, I took 10 teams that had strong KP rankings but were still lagging in odds to win the National Title, with a targeted fixed payout. **

Baylor 50-1
Florida St 80-1
Butler 125-1
Purdue 80-1
Ohio St 28-1
Iowa 125-1
Penn St 80-1
Seton Hall 80-1
West Virginia 70-1
San Diego St 70-1

If I had avoided Ohio St, which cost me the most, it would be 9-1. For the most part the KP rankings projected fairly well as all those teams with the exception of Ohio St.

** I am a pansy when it comes to betting so the payout is low.
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I actually grabbed Baylor at 30 to 1 right before the Kansas game in January. I also have Houston at 100 to 1 which I think is a steal.

I just get confused when i watch a team lose over and over again like those three and still not drop in the rankings.
 
rrlbees said:
Absolutely loved the presser. JB was pretty much spot on about everything and was funny at the same time.
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What?

He made himself seem like an old man wagging his finger at the clouds with the KenPom thing, while clearly showing he has no clue about Synergy, advanced stats, etc.

That isn’t funny. We’re 14-12 and our old coach somehow made himself look older.

Next year we have no impact recruits coming in and are losing our best player and JB is mocking Synergy stats showing clearly how terrible Buddy is on D, while mistakenly yelling about KenPom?

I guess I missed the joke.
 
MikeSU02 said:
What?

He made himself seem like an old man wagging his finger at the clouds with the KenPom thing, while clearly showing he has no clue about Synergy, advanced stats, etc.

That isn’t funny. We’re 14-12 and our old coach somehow made himself look older.

Next year we have no impact recruits coming in and are losing our best player and JB is mocking Synergy stats showing clearly how terrible Buddy is on D, while mistakenly yelling about KenPom?

I guess I missed the joke.
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Kadary Richmond says hello.
 
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