JB's best year

[supp]

Umm, we had John Wallace and Burgen up front. Far better that year than our forwards.

Z was a better PG than Frank (I have happily eaten crow on Frank this year, and Z is a favorite.)

Also the bench was far better, because we had one.

Guys stepped up big. There weren't huge expectations. We lost Lloyd to grades. No one knew how good Z could be. We didn't have a ton of outside shooting. But Burgan and Hill made big jumps year over year. Janulis and Cipolla provided some shooting. And Wallace was right there with Melo for the single greatest season I've ever seen. That wasn't a hugely talented team. How many of those guys even got a sniff at the pros? But there were a bunch who really played out of their minds that year. I'm on board with that year being Boeheim's best job ever.

 

[Finwad32]

Guys stepped up big. There weren't huge expectations. We lost Lloyd to grades. No one knew how good Z could be. We didn't have a ton of outside shooting. But Burgan and Hill made big jumps year over year. Janulis and Cipolla provided some shooting. And Wallace was right there with Melo for the single greatest season I've ever seen. That wasn't a hugely talented team. How many of those guys even got a sniff at the pros? But there were a bunch who really played out of their minds that year. I'm on board with that year being Boeheim's best job ever.

Yeah, I agree.

I remember the 90's different than most here though I suppose. Outside of Wallace, I remember the 90's as largely less talented teams overall, even pre 2003. I feel like at that point we jumped into a different category in terms of the players we were getting across the board consistently. We always had a guy or two or even 3 that had the potential, but there were a lot of guys on the back end not as talented.

In the past decade, our 6-man is usually a bonafide NBA talent. Not saying they all made it that far or developed...

 

[85SUAlum]

Not sure if this is JB's best year, but it's definitely up there for exceeding expectations.
I used to be a big critic of JB, especially when we had talented teams that seemed to under-perform in the tourney (see Richmond Spiders).
However, he's won me over over the years with what he's been able to do with teams where talent and expectations were lower than normal.
JB seems to have a knack of getting the most out of what he has to work with, and this year has been a pleasant surprise.
Especially with the loss of TT, Geno Thrope bailing, and Washington going down with injury (which was the biggest loss this year).
Add in Moyer and Sidibe not at 100% and it's pretty remarkable what this team has accomplished when they could have just folded up the tents and packed it in.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah, I agree.

I remember the 90's different than most here though I suppose. Outside of Wallace, I remember the 90's as largely less talented teams overall, even pre 2003. I feel like at that point we jumped into a different category in terms of the players we were getting across the board consistently. We always had a guy or two or even 3 that had the potential, but there were a lot of guys on the back end not as talented.

In the past decade, our 6-man is usually a bonafide NBA talent. Not saying they all made it that far or developed...

Yeah, as far as NBA talent - after Dave Johnson in 1992, I think Wallace was our only first round pick for the rest of the decade in 1996. Then we had Etan in 2000. After Melo in 2003, we started having guys go first round pretty regularly again.

 

[Col. Bleep]

I've always thought Boeheim's coaching ability shows most when he is undermanned.
He does his best jobs when he has the least talent.

Getting '96 team to the final and giving Kentucky a real fight for the title was extraordinary.
Right behind is getting 20 wins out of this group...the Magnificent Seven.

 

[OttoMets]

I’ve always thought 2001 was one of his better jobs. We lost a lot from a really good 2000 team. Damone Brown was the only returning starter. Shumpert was 6th man the previous year. Williams and Griffin were bench guys that had their moments. Nowadays that’s considered having a decent amount of talent back, but not in 2001. And we had little after those 4 guys. No bench, and Billy Celluck/Jeremy McNeil started at center.

Going 25-9 was a great job with that team.

1991-92 as well. Dave Johnson was a returning star, Autry returning starter. Guys like Hopkins and McRae role players. In that era, they weren’t expected to be very good but they won their 20+ and were a bad call away from being in the sweet 16.

Exactly. These and 1996 are suddenly underappreciated with a surprise play-in game bid. And why no love for 2010? Yeah, they had talent. Most teams have talent. Boeheim picked some bad apples out of an up-and-down team, made a major coaching change, and ripped off the best regular season to that point in school history.

Obviously nobody (or next to nobody) can really judge how good Boeheim's "coaching" is, but from an outsider's perspective it's very impressive to take a troubled group or a lot of newcomers and build a very successful team. Especially when it involves a strategic change like going all-zone, moreso when it's done by coaching up a lot of three-star kids who haven't done much before. (This is why I raise my eyebrows at summer 2016 "we're going to the Final Four" posts...this stuff isn't easy.)

In no order, 2001, 1996, 2003, 1992, and 2010 are among Boeheim's best work. Let's say he's submitting what he's proudest of as a portfolio of his career, I'd have to think those years are featured prominently.

 

[CusefanATL]

Given the talent on hand, the front court youth and inexperience, the defections, the injuries, be they season ending, nagging and/or debilitating, the schedule as well as the fatigue, both mental and physical, this result is, in my mind, extraordinary.

Not his best year. If committee gave the bid to ND instead of us, we would have inevitably gotten the "time for boeheim to step down" posts. Which would have been significantly more wrong than this post, but it doesnt mean this whole "best year" isnt wrong as well.

In almost all circumstances, you're never as good as you think you are and you are never as bad as you think you are.

Except in the years that you actually are. This is not 1 of those years.

Our talent level dictates a top 40-50 team, hell we have 2 NBA players and possible 3rd in Frank - maybe our depth doesnt. We were basically ranked 44th.

Geno certainly quit on us - but Boeheim isnt exactly the easiest person to deal with in a situation like that. I truly believe Geno could have been a game changer - or at least someone that gave tyus and frank 5 min off a night.

 

[OttoMets]

Exactly. These and 1996 are suddenly underappreciated with a surprise play-in game bid. And why no love for 2010? Yeah, they had talent. Most teams have talent. Boeheim picked some bad apples out of an up-and-down team, made a major coaching change, and ripped off the best regular season to that point in school history.

Obviously nobody (or next to nobody) can really judge how good Boeheim's "coaching" is, but from an outsider's perspective it's very impressive to take a troubled group or a lot of newcomers and build a very successful team. Especially when it involves a strategic change like going all-zone, moreso when it's done by coaching up a lot of three-star kids who haven't done much before. (This is why I raise my eyebrows at summer 2016 "we're going to the Final Four" posts...this stuff isn't easy.)

In no order, 2001, 1996, 2003, 1992, and 2010 are among Boeheim's best work. Let's say he's submitting what he's proudest of as a portfolio of his career, I'd have to think those years are featured prominently.

Thinking about this more, I'd say that virtually all of the 1990s constituted a terrific job by Boehiem. He went into the decade with probably the best talent he ever had but an increasing rep as a roll-the-ball-out coach who couldn't win the big one. Within a year he got the rug yanked out from under him and then Villanova and Richmond happened (which played into the Boeheim stereotype). What'd he do?

-Regrouped an undertalented and young group in 1992, one of his better years, in the opinion of some of us. Won the Big East Tournament and really got boned against UMass.
-Somehow kept the kids' heads on basketball during the probation year in 1993 and won his way back to the Big East title game (25 years ago today, if I'm not mistaken...damn, time flies).
-Had two more solid seasons in 1994 and 1995 with veteran, if unspectacular, teams. Again, twice took top-two seeds down to the buzzer to end the season.
-1996, obviously. The Sandlot says it best - aside from Wallace, it was "a bunch of rejects and a fat kid." But they were right there with Kentucky with two minutes to play.
-1997...eh. Tough when you don't have a capable point guard. Don't know what Boeheim could've done here in hindsight.
-1998 - nice rebound season after years of mediocre recruiting and all the pre-sanctions talent long gone.
-1999 - kind of a lull, with much of the talent but not enough of the experience or maturity in place. And even this "down" year would be remembered better if they hadn't sleepwalked through the 8/9 game to open the tournament.

 

[OrangeDW]

Not his best year. If committee gave the bid to ND instead of us, we would have inevitably gotten the "time for boeheim to step down" posts. Which would have been significantly more wrong than this post, but it doesnt mean this whole "best year" isnt wrong as well.

In almost all circumstances, you're never as good as you think you are and you are never as bad as you think you are.

Except in the years that you actually are. This is not 1 of those years.

Our talent level dictates a top 40-50 team, hell we have 2 NBA players and possible 3rd in Frank - maybe our depth doesnt. We were basically ranked 44th.

Geno certainly quit on us - but Boeheim isnt exactly the easiest person to deal with in a situation like that. I truly believe Geno could have been a game changer - or at least someone that gave tyus and frank 5 min off a night.

I don’t know that we have any NBA players, let alone 2 or 3. I think Battle will get a look, and Brissett has the potential to become an NBA player. Neither is a sure thing. They could very well be “NBA players” the same way LeRon Ellis, Kris Joseph, Andy Rautins, and Damone Brown were. I don’t see Frank making it.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Proclamation by OP seems to be fairly prevalent in past 24 hours... almost as prevalent as proclamations a week or so ago that it was time for JB to go

#fanbasesarecuckoo

I've never understood the folks saying he's not an offensive coach and doesn't know what he's doing...umm have you seen some of our offensive teams? Talent is an issue, too...he's maximizing the talent we have in terms of style of play, pace, etc. Completely agree it's been a phenomenal coaching year and definitely top 5. The joy in his face when they announced we were in said a lot.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I thought the “one more year” ultimatum sht was crazy when we were getting blown out by BC.

Still not sure many folks actually understand, even still, exactly what I and 0307 were saying with those threads. This kind of bears that out.

I wasn't calling for JB to be run out. I personally was asking what it would take for people here to question JB remaining in his position.

I'll credit JB for a couple things. First, sticking with Howard seems to have paid off more than most here ever imagined. And yes, he's gotten a ton out of this team, considering how limited they are in terms of talent and depth.

But how we got here has to be considered as well. He's primarily responsible for roster management. If TT was a nutjob, or his mom, that should have been a flag from the start and we should have gone in a different direction. As for Thorpe, I don't blame him for that one. Not sure anyone could have foreseen that nonsense happening.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Still not sure many folks actually understand, even still, exactly what I and 0307 were saying with those threads. This kind of bears that out.

I wasn't calling for JB to be run out. I personally was asking what it would take for people here to question JB remaining in his position.

I'll credit JB for a couple things. First, sticking with Howard seems to have paid off more than most here ever imagined. And yes, he's gotten a ton out of this team, considering how limited they are in terms of talent and depth.

But how we got here has to be considered as well. He's primarily responsible for roster management. If TT was a nutjob, or his mom, that should have been a flag from the start and we should have gone in a different direction. As for Thorpe, I don't blame him for that one. Not sure anyone could have foreseen that nonsense happening.

I agree and let me make this clear: I am not adopting the Jim Boeheim mythology that people like Townie espouse. TT, not being abole to recruit a serviceable point guard since Tyler Ennis, the sanctions. I think he owns all that.

But I'm not in a hurry to find his successor. In the long run we'll probably be OK. But theres a very real possibility that things will get quite a bit worse before they get better.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I agree and let me make this clear: I am not adopting the Jim Boeheim mythology that people like Townie espouse. TT, not being abole to recruit a serviceable point guard since Tyler Ennis, the sanctions. I think he owns all that.

But I'm not in a hurry to find his successor. In the long run we'll probably be OK. But theres a very real possibility that things will get quite a bit worse before they get better.

My biggest concern is at what point do the higher tier guys not even answer our calls without a succession plan in place? He's an old dude. Heck, I'm 49, and he's older than my father. How in the world does he relate to kids who are my 14 year olds peers? I realize he's not the only voice they hear, but at some point we are going to have to know which direction the school is taking.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

I disagree. In terms of attitude, I think JB did a nice job with these kids. But to call this his best coaching job is a stretch. The team pretty-much played to their level. We had three good wins (@ Louisville, @ Miami and Clemson), no great wins, and some losses where the team under-performed badly (Bonnies, Notre Dame, @ BC).

In recent memory, I really like what he did with the 2011-12 team, getting Dion to buy-in on being a sixth man. Blending younger and older players. Getting good contributions from Baye (for the most part). Excellent recruiting to the systems he runs.

He also did a really good job with the 15-16 team. Coming off bad season. No true pg. No real #5. Three freshman contributors to various degrees.

 

[Cheriehoop]

My biggest concern is at what point do the higher tier guys not even answer our calls without a succession plan in place? He's an old dude. Heck, I'm 49, and he's older than my father. How in the world does he relate to kids who are my 14 year olds peers? I realize he's not the only voice they hear, but at some point we are going to have to know which direction the school is taking.

Heck his own kids are in their late teens, younger than his players. I don't think any coach nor any player considers themselves peers to the other and the need to 'relate'. Does Coach K have a succession plan in public place? Larranaga? Leonard Hamilton? Roy Williams?

 

[HOFCeluck]

My biggest concern is at what point do the higher tier guys not even answer our calls without a succession plan in place? He's an old dude. Heck, I'm 49, and he's older than my father. How in the world does he relate to kids who are my 14 year olds peers? I realize he's not the only voice they hear, but at some point we are going to have to know which direction the school is taking.

Yeah I guess I dont really think about it too much. I've never heard of a successor for Coach K and it doesn't seem to be an issue. Conversely (or is it inversely?) we had one for ten years and a hell of a lot of good it did us.

 

[Alsacs]

Great overachieving season.
JB and the staff deserve a lot of credit but let’s not go overboard and call the best ever.
Major major props to him and the staff for taking the roster and getting 20 wins.

This isn’t his best coaching job ever. That isn’t a knock on him either.

 

[Alsacs]

Heck his own kids are in their late teens, younger than his players. I don't think any coach nor any player considers themselves peers to the other and the need to 'relate'. Does Coach K have a succession plan in public place? Larranaga? Leonard Hamilton? Roy Williams?

Coach K has shown he will adapt to the times.
He didn’t recruit one and dones like Calipari. He changed his recruiting philosophy.
He never played anything but ball pressure tight man to man defense.
He changed to include a zone he learned from JB and Hop.

The biggest complaint about JB is he doesn’t change. He runs the same offense and defense. He recruits in the I-95 corridor and Canada. He recruits length first.
Again it’s been very successful for a long time but K has shown you can be yourself but adapt. If JB just made a few adjustments like K the tension would go down from a lot of people.
Just like a moderator knows something will bother other people to post something trollish and apparently others know as well and think that is okay.

 

[721Comstock]

Heck his own kids are in their late teens, younger than his players. I don't think any coach nor any player considers themselves peers to the other and the need to 'relate'. Does Coach K have a succession plan in public place? Larranaga? Leonard Hamilton? Roy Williams?

THIS.

It is literally an issue that WE created for ourselves, which exists NOWHERE ELSE.
Virtually NO basketball programs have a "transition plan" in place.

Here's how it goes in the real world:
Coach leaves (for whatever reason), University does a search, hires new coach.
That's how pretty much EVERY school EVERYWHERE does it.

Why are we creating this BS standard for Syracuse, that is not being used anywhere else??

You want my bet? JB lasts longer than Coach K.
(who, BTW, does NOT have a succession plan, and that doesn't seem to be negatively impacting his recruiting one iota)
And probably Huggins too - it's not the years, it's the mileage.

Here's a list of notable D1 BB coaches, by age (at start of season):
JB - 72
K - 70
Hamilton - 69
Dunphy - 69
Larranaga - 68
Ol Crying Roy - 67
Tubby - 66
Kruger - 65
Beilein - 64
Huggy - 64
Barnes - 63
Izzo - 62
Sampson - 62

ALL of these guys are old enough to collect Social Security benefits.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Heck his own kids are in their late teens, younger than his players. I don't think any coach nor any player considers themselves peers to the other and the need to 'relate'. Does Coach K have a succession plan in public place? Larranaga? Leonard Hamilton? Roy Williams?

Good questions. JB is still older than all of those folks, though, isn't he?

But your point is well made.

 

[newmexicuse]

IMHO, the single thing Jimmy did best, and the reason why this season was salvageable, was the job he did with Frank Howard.

Last season Frank was a head case lost cause.

Jimmy showed faith in the kid (more than I had) and did a great job in coaching Frank up mentally. Early in the season Frank was plagued with TOs, Jimmy got him to improve and for the most part rectify those issues.

Jimmy had some fortunate luck with brissett being as good as he was as a frosh, but on the other hand he had bad luck with Matt Moyer not being able to contribute much. He also did nice work finding a solid role for Marek.

 

[Alsacs]

THIS.

It is literally an issue that WE created for ourselves, which exists NOWHERE ELSE.
Virtually NO basketball programs have a "transition plan" in place.

Here's how it goes in the real world:
Coach leaves (for whatever reason), University does a search, hires new coach.
That's how pretty much EVERY school EVERYWHERE does it.

Why are we creating this BS standard for Syracuse, that is not being used anywhere else??

You want my bet? JB lasts longer than Coach K.
(who, BTW, does NOT have a succession plan, and that doesn't seem to be negatively impacting his recruiting one iota)
And probably Huggins too - it's not the years, it's the mileage.

Here's a list of notable D1 BB coaches, by age (at start of season):
JB - 72
K - 70
Hamilton - 69
Dunphy - 69
Larranaga - 68
Ol Crying Roy - 67
Tubby - 66
Kruger - 65
Beilein - 64
Huggy - 64
Barnes - 63
Izzo - 62
Sampson - 62

ALL of these guys are old enough to collect Social Security benefits.

His wife keeps him younger and more energetic no doubt.

The x amount of years after JB will be worse than the 40+ years he will be the HC. Dasher said that and it’s 100% correct.
The issue isn’t succession. The past year after Hop left JB was more active in recruiting, no clue if he was more active in practice but Hop used to run most of them I would bet JB was more active and was helping groom one of the assistants for the Hop role.
If JB is active in recruiting and expands our recruiting pool we will be fine. Francis is pretty plugged in and doesn’t make crap up.

Bob Huggins beat Notre Dame in the 2nd round last year in Buffalo. You know what he was doing that night? He was recruiting at a HS game.

That is the stuff we need. Coach K doesn’t have to do that because Capel is pretty much doing all their main travel recruiting and K only
Goes to the big AAU stuff and on campus.
We aren’t Duke. JB last summer basically won the battle for Jordan Tucker and deserves a lot of credit for that until K snatched him at the last minute. We see more of that we good.

 

[Alsacs]

IMHO, the single thing Jimmy did best, and the reason why this season was salvageable, was the job he did with Frank Howard.

Last season Frank was a head case lost cause.

Jimmy showed faith in the kid (more than I had) and did a great job in coaching Frank up mentally. Early in the season Frank was plagued with TOs, Jimmy got him to improve and for the most part rectify those issues.

Jimmy had some fortunate luck with brissett being as good as he was as a frosh, but on the other hand he had bad luck with Matt Moyer not being able to contribute much. He also did nice work finding a solid role for Marek.

Spot on.
JB went all-in with Frank Howard and won a monster pot.
Deserves a lot of credit for that.

 

[CusefanATL]

THIS.

It is literally an issue that WE created for ourselves, which exists NOWHERE ELSE.
Virtually NO basketball programs have a "transition plan" in place.

Here's how it goes in the real world:
Coach leaves (for whatever reason), University does a search, hires new coach.
That's how pretty much EVERY school EVERYWHERE does it.

Why are we creating this BS standard for Syracuse, that is not being used anywhere else??

You want my bet? JB lasts longer than Coach K.
(who, BTW, does NOT have a succession plan, and that doesn't seem to be negatively impacting his recruiting one iota)
And probably Huggins too - it's not the years, it's the mileage.

Here's a list of notable D1 BB coaches, by age (at start of season):
JB - 72
K - 70
Hamilton - 69
Dunphy - 69
Larranaga - 68
Ol Crying Roy - 67
Tubby - 66
Kruger - 65
Beilein - 64
Huggy - 64
Barnes - 63
Izzo - 62
Sampson - 62

ALL of these guys are old enough to collect Social Security benefits.

True... But Lonnie Kruger on down all seem to be in good health and probably have healthy retirement accounts. Any FA in their right mind would advise them to hold off until 70 on SS bennys.

 

[Toronto Cuse]

I have been saying all year it's amazing how much we've gotten out of so little. Just like last year I thought it was remarkable how little we got out of so much.

End of the day, you just can't predict how a group will get along and react to sacrificing for the cause.