Jimmy's Stubbornness...

[MadNY3]

I think this is ridiculous.

Damn Jimmy B for not developing the OTHER 7'0" McDonald's All-American center besides Fab. Oh wait...

Damn him for not having a not-miss-a-beat sub for the 5th-year senior center in AO.

And damn him for Cooney not being able to shoot any more.

Like you said, I get the "meltdown city" frustration. But I think it is off base with the rationale. In a post-Melo, one-and-done world, not wevery Frosh can come in and be lights out.

 

[TheCusian]

This whole thing is overblown. It's simple: you practice the way the coaches want, show improvement. Once you are up to JB's standard (developed over a HOF career and 900+ wins) you play.

If you play guys before they are doing the things you want them to do in practice, you gain cemented bad habits and losses. Argue about depth all you want - but you cannot argue that players develop at Syracuse and kids come here to be developed by a HOF coach (in part ).

If you have kids you know what happens when they get what they want before they are ready or before they are earned. A shortcut gets you nothing but more correcting later on.

The real issue is that losing sucks and everyone tries to find solutions (sometimes by crapping on the coach). I'm trusting the plan he has for developing the talent on the team. Because he has won 900+ more games than me and has done this for 30+ years.

 

[SWC75]

I think this is ridiculous.

Damn Jimmy B for not developing the OTHER 7'0" McDonald's All-American center besides Fab. Oh wait...

Damn him for not having a not-miss-a-beat sub for the 5th-year senior center in AO.

And damn him for Cooney not being able to shoot any more.

Like you said, I get the "meltdown city" frustration. But I think it is off base with the rationale. In a post-Melo, one-and-done world, not wevery Frosh can come in and be lights out.

The idea that starters start because they are better than the guys behind them seems elusive to some people.

 

[SWC75]

Here's a thought: If Kevin Ware played for the CUSE under JB's philosophy, no way we win a NC after he breaks his leg. There would've been no experienced backup in the rotation, and since he was playing, it would've just meant that some talented frosh/soph was riding the pine.

Kevin Ware was the experienced back-up in their rotation.

 

[two3zone]

The idea that starters start because they are better than the guys behind them seems elusive to some people.

I guess we want a coach to have our best players on the bench resting up and probably losing games so we can have guys who aren't ready get some court time.



All kidding aside, with ALL of our close games this year, how many more games could we have lost this season playing Roberson, Patterson and Johnson? We saw what Roberson did in extended minutes on defense against GT, how many of these 5 point games turn into losses? How many more points do we give up in each game if these guys get 20 minutes of court time combined? Anybody who saw Roberson play yesterday cannot seriously say that Fair at 60% is worse than a Roberson at 100%.

Until we go to man defense players that do not know the defense to a T will not be playing unless the game is in hand or an emergency.

 

[GardenOrange]

Everyone keeps saying play your best guys, blah blah blah. College kids don't get tired. You know what would be an interesting concept?

Develop a bench during the season and keep everyone rested. Then when the tournament rolls around you shorten your bench. Players will be fresher. That's the time to shorten your bench. Everyone on this team is worn down. I don't disagree the best players should play in the tournament, that's when it's win or go home but it doesn't need to be like that during the regular season. Ya winning conference championships and only losing 3 games in a year is nice but people don't tend to remember that if you flame out in March. People remember National Championships and that is what every season should be based on. Developing a team for that final title run, not running your team into the ground to win 27 games and lose in the sweet 16 or second round.

Lots of really good teams play multiple freshmen every year. Why are our highly recruited freshmen so unable to contribute or understand the defense or offense? This is because our staff is not getting off their A$$es in the fall and getting them ready. It takes grinders to make great players. Even the coaches have to be grinders. Jimmy's grinding days are over. It doesn't mean anything about his legacy or competence, or his strategic mind. We don't have to be apologists for what we know is a problem.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

All I know is we have underachieved over the years

Stop. You just shot yourself in the head.

350 D1 programs - a handful that can be considered better than ours...

That is not underachieving. That is rarified air.

Unbelievable how you take our program's success for granted.

This board is degenerating into Syracuse.com and I have lost patience with this drivel.

 

[tbonezone]

The idea that starters start because they are better than the guys behind them seems elusive to some people.

ok. what about jb's patented 30 second start and pull ? better?

 

[Forza Azzurri]

This is because our staff is not getting off their A$$es in the fall and getting them ready. It takes grinders to make great players...Jimmy's grinding days are over. We don't have to be apologists for what we know is a problem.

2013 - Final Four
2012 - Elite Eight ex Fab Melo
2011 - Round of 32
2010 - Sweet Sixteen ex Onuaku
2009 - Sweet Sixteen

Five Year Record - 147 - 30

173 - 34 if you include this year...

Yeah, you're right, this coaching staff can't coach and JB is over-the-hill. Fire 'em all. Who has Dave Bliss' phone number?

In your world, Dumb and Dumber are Rhodes Scholars...

 

[Col. Bleep]

I'm far from a total Boeheimophile.
But you have to give the man his due.
He's won almost 1,000 games.
He's not going to change after 38 winning seasons.

Right now his system is failing because he didn't recruit enough guys who he deems worthy of playing.
Fine to have short bench until injury and/or fatigue set in or your players are playing poorly.
Then you've got few if any options...especially if opponents have figured out how to play you.
It means you're destined to have a tough time until those underlying problems get fixed.

 

[Knicks411]

Stop. You just shot yourself in the head.

350 D1 programs - a handful that can be considered better than ours...

That is not underachieving. That is rarified air.

Unbelievable how you take our program's success for granted.

This board is degenerating into Syracuse.com and I have lost patience with this drivel.

I have to say I get how message boards work, they are reactionary, but some of these threads have been pretty funny. Two or three weeks ago we were in the middle of an incredible golden era, and any thread about how the team was less than the best in the country was shouted down with insults (wasn't Seth Greenberg called an idiot for predicting we'd lose to Duke and UVA? Unless he said Maryland instead. Is he still an idiot for that now?) and talk of how we're great at winning close games, etc. Now it's lots of threads about the problem with this, or JB's problem here. It's just funny to me.

And don't get me wrong, the play the last few weeks has been really distressing. And that includes the close calls with ND and State that we didn't worry too much about at the time. Losing to BC and Tech is horrible, injuries or not, and I've been pretty consistent on that. But big picture, the program is in amazing shape, JB is an awsome coach, and on the whole, this is still a very good team that has not played that way for a few weeks now.

I guess the bottom line for me is that in general, I'm usually never as high on the team as consensus when things are going well, but by the same token never as down on them as when things are going bad. Though this is very possibly the worst stretch of ball in what, 5 years?

 

[rrlbees]

2013 - Final Four 2012 - Elite Eight ex Fab Melo 2011 - Round of 32 2010 - Sweet Sixteen ex Onuaku 2009 - Sweet Sixteen Five Year Record - 147 - 30 173 - 34 if you include this year... Yeah, you're right, this coaching staff can't coach and JB is over-the-hill. Fire 'em all. Who has Dave Bliss' phone number? In your world, Dumb and Dumber are Rhodes Scholars...

It's amazing how many people are coming out of the woodwork now and saying JB is over the hill it his grinding days are over when we are might be in the midst of SUs best 5 year run ever.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

I have to say I get how message boards work, they are reactionary, but some of these threads have been pretty funny. Two or three weeks ago we were in the middle of an incredible golden era, and any thread about how the team was less than the best in the country was shouted down with insults (wasn't Seth Greenberg called an idiot for predicting we'd lose to Duke and UVA? Unless he said Maryland instead. Is he still an idiot for that now?) and talk of how we're great at winning close games, etc. Now it's lots of threads about the problem with this, or JB's problem here. It's just funny to me.

And don't get me wrong, the play the last few weeks has been really distressing. And that includes the close calls with ND and State that we didn't worry too much about at the time. Losing to BC and Tech is horrible, injuries or not, and I've been pretty consistent on that. But big picture, the program is in amazing shape, JB is an awsome coach, and on the whole, this is still a very good team that has not played that way for a few weeks now.

I guess the bottom line for me is that in general, I'm usually never as high on the team as consensus when things are going well, but by the same token never as down on them as when things are going bad. Though this is very possibly the worst stretch of ball in what, 5 years?

Last year we lost 4 out of 5 in Feb...

 

[djcon57]

I hate that this valid thread has turned into the usual hyperbole.
As normal these days on this board.

JB is great. To say otherwise is just ignorant and not really worth the rebuttal
Yet these type of comments always derail the thread from the OP's original statement.
Just ignore them.

 

[tbonezone]

opinions vary. i wouldn't visit a board where everybody agreed with me 100% of the time. i'd just join a cult and save the bandwidth.

 

[djcon57]

Last year we lost 4 out of 5 in Feb...

We didn't lose to two teams with losing records at home last year.

 

[Knicks411]

Last year we lost 4 out of 5 in Feb...

Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at. I wasn't giving up on the team then. The obvious difference of course is the teams that are beating us. And that is a legitimate concern. Which is why i think its probably the worst stretch in 5 years

 

[Briancuse]

Last year we lost 4 out of 5 in Feb...

Last years skid was a lot different than this years, we lost some close games to some good teams during that stretch, and beat up all the bad teams that we played.

 

[baggerbob]

It's amazing how many people are coming out of the woodwork now and saying JB is over the hill it his grinding days are over when we are might be in the midst of SUs best 5 year run ever.

This team has overachieved with the amount of talent ready to play, the freshmen aren't ready, Trevor in 3 years still hasn't developed a mid range game, Grant can't hit a jump shot. That puts most of the burden on CJ who isn't a go to one on one player, and Ennis who is still a first year player finding his way. For this year the players are what they are, they all need to improve over the summer. Sure as fans we're disappointed when they lose, but how many teams are 26-4?

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Right now his system is failing because he didn't recruit enough guys who he deems worthy of playing.

Actually, I would argue that the current issues stem from the fact that the players he has recruited have had too much success unexpected success too early in their collegiate careers.

JB's stated recruiting philosophy to recruit primarily four-year guys along with maybe one or two guys who leave early (on the entire roster and not in the same year)...He is the antithesis of Calipari.

In 2012, Fab Melo and Dion both blew up and left as sophomores. They went from getting very little PT one year to lottery picks the next. MCW did the exact same thing last year.

Fab Melo and Dion would both still be here as seniors this year.

MCW would be our starting point guard.

Imagine our backcourt with Waiters and MCW and our Front court with Fab Melo - depth would certainly not be an issue.

You can bet that coach would not be hoping that Cooney shoots himself back into form (because there is nobody else) if he had both Ennis and MCW on the roster.

Although coaches certainly have to take into account a guy possibly leaving early, I doubt that JB thought all three of these guys would be gone (my opinion, I could be wrong about that).

So, when you add unexpected departures to injuries, it creates a numbers problem and it forces him to use guys that he never contemplated using this early in their careers.

 

[tbonezone]

good post. and perhaps why i agree with tomcat and others that senior night should be a much bigger deal than what we saw on tuesday.

(edit. i never speak fab melo's name in conjunction with orange anymore. not even in portugese)

 

[djcon57]

Although coaches certainly have to take into account a guy possibly leaving early, I doubt that JB thought all three of these guys would be gone (my opinion, I could be wrong about that).

MCW, Dion and Fab? I think most had them gone after 2 years tops. I know I thought Fab would be gone after 1.

 

[Knicks411]

All 3 guys were Mcdonalds AA type talents, no? I think it would be an upset for guys like that to stay 4 years

 

[Forza Azzurri]

MCW, Dion and Fab? I think most had them gone after 2 years tops. I know I thought Fab would be gone after 1.

Was that pre- or post-arrival on campus?

After Fab's freshman year, what odds would you have given that he'd be a first round pick after his sophomore year?

As I said, my opinion.

Don't think JB anticipated MCW being gone.

Less certain about Fab Melo and Dion as seniors.

 

[djcon57]

Was that pre- or post-arrival on campus?

After Fab's freshman year, what odds would you have given that he'd be a first round pick after his sophomore year?

As I said, my opinion.

Don't think JB anticipated MCW being gone.

Less certain about Fab Melo and Dion as seniors.

Pre.

MCW, Fab, and Dion were top 20 recruits, most expect Top 20 recruits to stay 2 years tops nowadays, imo.


After Fab's freshman year, for myself, about 95%, he was a 7 footer and the NBA falls over themselves to draft 7 footers.