Joseph a victim of expectations

[Timonen]

I don't usually get into the "they're kids so lay off" argument but I think the Kris comments are just plan offbase.

He's a complimentary player that got thrown into the "should be best player/leader" essentially by default. Scoop was the leader. Kris led us in scoring and was still a deferential teammate to others who needed to strive. We don't win 30+ games and we don't ahve harmony playing 9 guys if he doesn't defer (2 others at essentially the same position)...and many in his position wouldn't have. We've been through a season of drama and pretty considerable drama over the 4 years Kris has been here. To my knowledge, he has contributed to ZERO of it. He's been GREAT off the court. and really good on the court. What are we bitching about?

He's a notably better Kueth Duany. Would Duany have taken the knocks if we didn't win in '03? No...and he shouldn't have. Kris did a whole lot more to make us great than he did to make us lose. Blame Melo. Blame refs. Blame a bad matchup. Kris should be getting nothing but praise for his body of work right now.

 

[EastCoast2]

Very valid points, IMO. We SU fans sometimes assume every 6'7 SF recruit is going to be the next Carmelo :crazy:

 

[jec1521]

The thing is, he almost never showed up when the lights were bright and we needed him, which, as fans, we want to see more so than anything.

That being said, he still contributed a great deal to our success during his time here. I want nothing but the best for him in the future.

 

[HakAttack]

The thing is, he almost never showed up when the lights were bright and we needed him, which, as fans, we want to see more so than anything.

That being said, he still contributed a great deal to our success during his time here. I want nothing but the best for him in the future.

Did you even bother to read the OP?

"He's a complimentary player that got thrown into the "should be best player/leader" essentially by default."

When you don't have the athletic skills to score 20 a game, why should you be lambasted for failing to score 20 a game? I wouldn't be surprised at all if his knee problems limited him. After getting surgery this past summer, I expected him to have more trouble with his knees this year than he did.

 

[kingtidge]

I think the issue with K-Jo isn't that he was by and large a complimentary player...

It's that every 10th game or so when he'd go completely off and score 25+, dribble drive, finish and drain perimeter shots like a lottery pick and basically dominate physically as the best player on the floor.

We all saw what he was capable of...

We continue to wonder why he could not bottle the lightning and bring it with more consistency.

 

[samspann1]

Right or wrong, I think that the perception is that his game didn't noticeably improve from his junior to senior seasons. He didn't seem any quicker or stronger, his ballhandling didn't improve, he didn't develop a pull-up jumper, and it looked like he still didn't want any part of the battle on the defensive glass (that was my biggest pet peeve).

still, he seemed like a good kid, and he represented the University well.

 

[RF2044]

When you don't have the athletic skills to score 20 a game, why should you be lambasted for failing to score 20 a game? I wouldn't be surprised at all if his knee problems limited him. After getting surgery this past summer, I expected him to have more trouble with his knees this year than he did.

To your point above--and I'm not trying to criticize / pile on KJ--but does anyone know if there is something wrong with him physically? He just hasn't looked the same the last third of the year.

Listen, forget the scoring stats--we have an incredibly balanced team, with different players all capable of stepping up on any given night. So I don't mind that his scoring declined--very understandable, given the team we had. But he seemed much more explosive earlier in the year. I had the feeling that while he averaged around 13 ppg, any given night he could knock down some extra threes and easily put up 20+.

I haven't seen that from KJ in awhile. I've wondered whether it had to do with his knees, whether he'd lost strength in his legs, etc.

Again, not looking to criticize--just asking the question. Kris also made a TON of big plays this year at critical times, with games on the line. West Virginia, Louisville, and Cincinnati readily come to mind. We don't win those games without him stepping up huge at the end of those games.

 

[xc84]

I don't usually get into the "they're kids so lay off" argument but I think the Kris comments are just plan offbase.

He's a complimentary player that got thrown into the "should be best player/leader" essentially by default. Scoop was the leader. Kris led us in scoring and was still a deferential teammate to others who needed to strive. We don't win 30+ games and we don't ahve harmony playing 9 guys if he doesn't defer (2 others at essentially the same position)...and many in his position wouldn't have. We've been through a season of drama and pretty considerable drama over the 4 years Kris has been here. To my knowledge, he has contributed to ZERO of it. He's been GREAT off the court. and really good on the court. What are we bitching about?

He's a notably better Kueth Duany. Would Duany have taken the knocks if we didn't win in '03? No...and he shouldn't have. Kris did a whole lot more to make us great than he did to make us lose. Blame Melo. Blame refs. Blame a bad matchup. Kris should be getting nothing but praise for his body of work right now.

Agree about Joseph. I like him but always scratched my head about the "star" hype he was given. And, it wasn't just by Syracuse fans... national media and award pickers touted him as well. I am not dissing him because, relatively speaking, he's a great player and seems to be a nice kid. I am glad he played at Syracuse.

 

[jec1521]

Did you even bother to read the OP?

"He's a complimentary player that got thrown into the "should be best player/leader" essentially by default."

When you don't have the athletic skills to score 20 a game, why should you be lambasted for failing to score 20 a game? I wouldn't be surprised at all if his knee problems limited him. After getting surgery this past summer, I expected him to have more trouble with his knees this year than he did.

You don't need to be the best player or even the leader to just simply show up. He disappeared, and even hurt us sometimes in big moments.

This isn't an athletic skill issue. If Draymond Green can put up 20 a game, KJo easily can. This was a mental issue. He just lacked the "cajones" and got nervous in the spotlight. That's OK though. He was still a great player for us, but that lack of mental toughness is one of the reasons that we're not still playing right now.

 

[CusefanATL]

I don't usually get into the "they're kids so lay off" argument but I think the Kris comments are just plan offbase.

He's a complimentary player that got thrown into the "should be best player/leader" essentially by default. Scoop was the leader. Kris led us in scoring and was still a deferential teammate to others who needed to strive. We don't win 30+ games and we don't ahve harmony playing 9 guys if he doesn't defer (2 others at essentially the same position)...and many in his position wouldn't have. We've been through a season of drama and pretty considerable drama over the 4 years Kris has been here. To my knowledge, he has contributed to ZERO of it. He's been GREAT off the court. and really good on the court. What are we bitching about?

He's a notably better Kueth Duany. Would Duany have taken the knocks if we didn't win in '03? No...and he shouldn't have. Kris did a whole lot more to make us great than he did to make us lose. Blame Melo. Blame refs. Blame a bad matchup. Kris should be getting nothing but praise for his body of work right now.

actually... boeheim threw him into that role when he gave him the ball @gtown in 2010 over wes johnson and told him to get a game saving bucket.

 

[HakAttack]

To your point above--and I'm not trying to criticize / pile on KJ--but does anyone know if there is something wrong with him physically? He just hasn't looked the same the last third of the year.

IMO he looked gassed in the tourney, it didn't look like he had much left in the tank. That's hardly an issue with "cajones" or having the stones to get it done. As others have said, he basically won 3-4 games for us this year by himself.

 

[RF2044]

I wondered if [given past reports about his knees, his surgery, his soft tissue being weak around the knees, etc.] he just didn't have any legs by the end of the year. That might explain his shot dropping off, his lack of explosiveness, etc.

 

[jec1521]

IMO he looked gassed in the tourney, it didn't look like he had much left in the tank. That's hardly an issue with "cajones" or having the stones to get it done. As others have said, he basically won 3-4 games for us this year by himself.

What do you mean gassed, though? Physically or mentally?

 

[HakAttack]

What do you mean gassed, though? Physically or mentally?

Physically. He didn't have much explosiveness or lift in his legs, and his jumper really looked flat.

I don't think his emotional state has anything to do with how he played. Just because he was a "silent leader" this year doesn't mean he wasn't mentally tough.

 

[rrlbees]

The fans didn't throw him into that best player role. The coaches did, the media did, and the other BE coaches did also as evidenced by them naming him 1st team all BE. There is no doubt going into the season that it was expected KJo would be our best player, not a complimentary player.

 

[Millhouse]

I don't usually get into the "they're kids so lay off" argument but I think the Kris comments are just plan offbase.

He's a complimentary player that got thrown into the "should be best player/leader" essentially by default. Scoop was the leader. Kris led us in scoring and was still a deferential teammate to others who needed to strive. We don't win 30+ games and we don't ahve harmony playing 9 guys if he doesn't defer (2 others at essentially the same position)...and many in his position wouldn't have. We've been through a season of drama and pretty considerable drama over the 4 years Kris has been here. To my knowledge, he has contributed to ZERO of it. He's been GREAT off the court. and really good on the court. What are we bitching about?

He's a notably better Kueth Duany. Would Duany have taken the knocks if we didn't win in '03? No...and he shouldn't have. Kris did a whole lot more to make us great than he did to make us lose. Blame Melo. Blame refs. Blame a bad matchup. Kris should be getting nothing but praise for his body of work right now.

Complimentary players need to do the little things.

Joseph's rebounding makes me question his effort.

I can live with him not being able to dribble i suppose.

 

[Timonen]

His touches and shots seemd to go down starting at the second louisville game. It felt to me like we made a shift to increased guard driving/shooting at that point. He was the third option to touch the ball and plays weren't really called for him distinctly. It's logical that the "flow" didn't seem to be there for him in the tourney.

 

[orangenirvana]

Blame Rob Murphy.

He was the one that crowned Joseph a lottery pick going into his Junior season.

KJ always had the physical ability to dominate. He just could never put it together. He failed to reach his full potential while at SU.

But that's okay. Doesn't mean I'm not a HUGE fan of his. He's a great representative of the university and area and I will always root for him and wish him well.

 

[Timonen]

The fans didn't throw him into that best player role. The coaches did, the media did, and the other BE coaches did also as evidenced by them naming him 1st team all BE. There is no doubt going into the season that it was expected KJo would be our best player, not a complimentary player.

whoever threw him in is completely irrelevent. the point is that they were wrong so that's not the standard by which he should be judged. if we lost 20 or 10 games, FINE. blame him. we lost 3 and he led us in scoring. whatever he did for us WORKED in large part.

 

[rrlbees]

whoever threw him in is completely irrelevent. the point is that they were wrong so that's not the standard by which he should be judged. if we lost 20 or 10 games, FINE. blame him. we lost 3 and he led us in scoring. whatever he did for us WORKED in large part.

we can't blame anyone for the season since we were so wildly successful recordwise. Nobody to blame for the record. But the BE coaches, who know infinitely more than we do, voted him 1st team all BE. So I would think post season we would see that type of player. While we won games until OSU, I don't think we saw an all big east performance.

 

[Timonen]

we can't blame anyone for the season since we were so wildly successful recordwise. Nobody to blame for the record. But the BE coaches, who know infinitely more than we do, voted him 1st team all BE. So I would think post season we would see that type of player. While we won games until OSU, I don't think we saw an all big east performance.

Coaches reward seniors who are pretty good. I don't think their backing really means anything. If it's anything like how they vote in polls, they just give it to an assistant and write it off. They don't really care.

 

[rrlbees]

Coaches reward seniors who are pretty good. I don't think their backing really means anything. If it's anything like how they vote in polls, they just give it to an assistant and write it off. They don't really care.

I don't completely disagree with that either.

 

[Ghost]

He's a notably better Kueth Duany. Would Duany have taken the knocks if we didn't win in '03? No...and he shouldn't have. Kris did a whole lot more to make us great than he did to make us lose. Blame Melo. Blame refs. Blame a bad matchup. Kris should be getting nothing but praise for his body of work right now.

Is he notably better than Duany? Junior/Senior years they're pretty close statistically.

Plus, Duany was playing up top in the zone so the rebounding numbers probably shouldn't be that close.

 

[mtk1210]

Go Orange

 

[Czar]

This is 100% true.

Every highly touted incoming Freshman gets the Carmelo-Measuring stick.

Paul Harris, Donte Greene, K.J., Fab, Coleman is going to get, If Noel were to commit the fan base will expect what Melo did. Just go back and read the posts from the last month on it.

It's awesome to have high hopes for a player, but most of it is unrealistic.

It's unrealistic for all of those guys except Noel. Noel should be as good or better than Davis was this year. He has no reason not to be.