Josh Kirkland brings one thing to the party, and that thing is

[Toga]

That's Shady Schiano.

Possibly, although it might have been Keith Hernandez.

 

[CU44SE]

OK, I think we agree that:

1. We were in cover 2 zone.
2. In zone Josh had responsibility for the curl/flat area as Shafer calls it.
3. Esk had over the top and blew his assignment.
4. Had it gone for a TD the 6 would have been Esk's.

Where we seem to disagree:

1. When Josh bit he got beat immediately and very badly and the WR was wide open long before the safety would have picked him up. His job on a vertical was to hold the inside seam and force a bubble to give time for the safety to feel the route happening. He was out of position to do that and the WR shot up field in a straight line. Josh never had him covered within his area of responsibility.
2. The minute he got beat he started to try to recover and was not worried about an underneath route nor was he in a position to cover it as he had his hips turned and was headed up-field as fast as he could go.
3. It would not have taken more than an average throw because the WR had separated from Josh by a wide margin.
4. A completion for a large gain would have been on Josh primarily.

I grant you that a really good play by the safety or maybe a bit hit would have had a chance to recover on that play but, in the end, I think we had the worst case - two blown coverages on the same play.

Alright, you got me to re-watch the play. You said you didnt have the back end view, did you record the game on MSG because the replay immediately following the play is from the back end of it. I believe this angle may lead you to see something very different. Back to the play, Initially, like you said, Kirkland takes a step in on the play action but turns his hips very quickly and starts running with the receiver instantly. 10 yards down the field, Kirkland is right with the wide receiver and at this point he turns toward the middle of the field (looking at the slot wr and begins to run this way) I take this to be his "area" on this particular coverage. At this moment, the quarter back is beginning his wind up and throwing the ball. Meanwhile, Eskridge starts at the 30 yard line on the left hash mark (10 yards off the line of scrimage). Ramos is about 4 yards wide of this hash mark. Immediately at the snap of the ball, Eskridge is back peddling to the 35 yard line. He hits the 35 yard line and immediately starts running up and towards the middle of the field to the slot wr who is running the deep slant. If he stays and doesn't step up at this point, he is right above the wr and their is absolutely no way the quarterback is throwing that ball to Ramos. He has a guy underneath and over the top (roughly 7 yards apart from each other). The quarterback doesnt start to throw the ball to Ramos until eskridge is in the middle of the field (as i mentioned, Eskridge started on the left hash mark and was already in the middle of the field when the quarterback started to release the ball). The QB's initial read on that play was the slot WR, once he saw Eskridge bite on that wr, he immediately looked to Ramos who had no coverage over the top and was obviously was going to beat Kirkland one on one. By the time Eskridge turns and starts to run towards Ramos, he is closer to the opposite hash mark then the hask mark he started on. Ultimately, it didnt cost us any points, and Eskridge and Kirkland both had a heck of a game. Its just concerning because we continue to have breakdowns in coverage which is leading to a lot of completions and TD's. If were playing a better QB, thats 6.

 

[Crusty]

Alright, you got me to re-watch the play. You said you didnt have the back end view, did you record the game on MSG because the replay immediately following the play is from the back end of it. I believe this angle may lead you to see something very different. Back to the play, Initially, like you said, Kirkland takes a step in on the play action but turns his hips very quickly and starts running with the receiver instantly. 10 yards down the field, Kirkland is right with the wide receiver and at this point he turns toward the middle of the field (looking at the slot wr and begins to run this way) I take this to be his "area" on this particular coverage. At this moment, the quarter back is beginning his wind up and throwing the ball. Meanwhile, Eskridge starts at the 30 yard line on the left hash mark (10 yards off the line of scrimage). Ramos is about 4 yards wide of this hash mark. Immediately at the snap of the ball, Eskridge is back peddling to the 35 yard line. He hits the 35 yard line and immediately starts running up and towards the middle of the field to the slot wr who is running the deep slant. If he stays and doesn't step up at this point, he is right above the wr and their is absolutely no way the quarterback is throwing that ball to Ramos. He has a guy underneath and over the top (roughly 7 yards apart from each other). The quarterback doesnt start to throw the ball to Ramos until eskridge is in the middle of the field (as i mentioned, Eskridge started on the left hash mark and was already in the middle of the field when the quarterback started to release the ball). The QB's initial read on that play was the slot WR, once he saw Eskridge bite on that wr, he immediately looked to Ramos who had no coverage over the top and was obviously was going to beat Kirkland one on one. By the time Eskridge turns and starts to run towards Ramos, he is closer to the opposite hash mark then the hask mark he started on. Ultimately, it didnt cost us any points, and Eskridge and Kirkland both had a heck of a game. Its just concerning because we continue to have breakdowns in coverage which is leading to a lot of completions and TD's. If were playing a better QB, thats 6.

Thanks,
I am going to see if I can a reply on TimeWarner to see if it looks differently. I never questioned your point on Esk as in the view I have he is clearly missing from the entire screen. I have a different view of Josh, as I say, he was never close to covering the WR. I will take a look at TMW and see.

Appreciate your view.

 

[Crusty]

I just looked at TWC replay and was able to freeze frame. I think you are right. Josh carried his guy well enough to 15 yards past the LOS and that is all you can ask. He didn't force his man to bubble his route but it wouldn't have mattered as Esk was nowhere to be found.

Enjoyed your thoughts, Thanks

 

[CU44SE]

I just looked at TWC replay and was able to freeze frame. I think you are right. Josh carried his guy well enough to 15 yards past the LOS and that is all you can ask. He didn't force his man to bubble his route but it wouldn't have mattered as Esk was nowhere to be found.

Enjoyed your thoughts, Thanks

Enjoyed the back and forth, but after I watched that play a second time I saw a lot of other things that went wrong in that play, but its hard to know what exactly went wrong without knowing the play that was called. Spruil or lynch, not sure which one or if either were responsible for a middle zone, but they both bit on the play action which left the middle of the field wide open to the slot wr. Probably would have been a quick 15 yard gain because im not sure desir would have got there in time so eskridge jumped his route, the only problem being that eskridge was responsible for the deep half of that side of the field.

 

[Crusty]

Enjoyed the back and forth, but after I watched that play a second time I saw a lot of other things that went wrong in that play, but its hard to know what exactly went wrong without knowing the play that was called. Spruil or lynch, not sure which one or if either were responsible for a middle zone, but they both bit on the play action which left the middle of the field wide open to the slot wr. Probably would have been a quick 15 yard gain because im not sure desir would have got there in time so eskridge jumped his route, the only problem being that eskridge was responsible for the deep half of that side of the field.

In Shafer's cover 2 it is almost always the Mike that gets that middle zone.