Jumbo is a jumbo failure

[Millhouse]

spread out, snap quick, fall forward.

play action, chuck it

 

[orangepassion]

I stated this to Dino during the coaches show a few weeks ago (in a different manner) asking why he doesn't instead spread the field near the goal line instead of clogging the middle and he stated the reason was because he wanted to save the QB from getting hit more, feeling he would have to run the QB if he spread it out.

 

[sufandu]

As our strongest RB with superior vision continues to gain experience, I bet it will become more successful.

 

[TheCusian]

WMU figured out how to stop it and then did.

What? No. We had one attempt from the 1 with Strick that didn’t work.

I think people think the % should be close to 90% and it’s not and we all remember Dino trying to send a msg to his ol vs FSU and it didn’t work

 

[upperdeck]

ask wash how well red zone offense worked for them againts Auburn, it may well keep them out of the playoffs. or oregon vs Stanford. or PSU vs OSU as short yardage plays may cost them too.

 

[PhatOrange]

Sorry but that is another excuse. It was late, it was FSU/Clemson...it was...
The statistics show it is not producing over 5 games. 5, not just a couple.

What statistics?

 

[TheCusian]

I'm not going to go and find all the times we ran the jumbo out and see the effectiveness. But it's crazy talk to say it hasn't worked.

We have 9 1 or 2yd TD runs on the season. That's a lot. We have run the pop pass to the TE twice for a TD.

We have failed to score TD on two drives from the 1. The WMU game was one attempt. The FSU game we remember because it was 4 attempts.

 

[SoBristol]

To be fair, compare red zone success using jumbo versus red zone success using whatever else SU has tried under Babers or whatever you believe SU should do. We haven't been good at completing fades or slants in the red zone -- the one passing TD in close came from a jumbo set and a pass to an open TE. In the second half, Clemson was shutting down pretty much everything else we tried, not just the jumbo plays.

We were good last season between the 20s, but the scoring average did not show it because the team did not finish drives. Except when Dungey ran -- and that brings a risk.

 

[CanadianSU]

Qb sneak!!!!

 

[SmilinBob]

What statistics?

Red zone TD scoring %.

 

[SmilinBob]

I stated this to Dino during the caches show a few weeks ago (in a different manner) asking why he doesn't instead spread the field instead of clogging the middle and he stated the reason was because he wanted to save the QB from getting hit more, feeling he would have to run the QB if he spread it out.

That's the puzzling thing...it's still ED as the one who has almost all the inside the 5 TD's but Babers doesn't want to run him?

 

[SmilinBob]

I actually gave evidence as to why it didn't work, not excuses lol.

Your evidence was "it was late"?

 

[PAcuse]

Your evidence was "it was late"?

See post number 12

#5 from FSU was the main reason it didn't work
Clemson has a NFL DLine
The package should get better as it worked well against WMU in the first half

^ EVIDENCE

I said it in reply to you that it was late in the game and WMU had figure out their DL by inserting multiple new players and had the jumbo package, that's what teams do make adjustments.
I get it you hate the jumbo package and don't want us to use it.

 

[SmilinBob]

See post number 12

#5 from FSU was the main reason it didn't work
Clemson has a NFL DLine
The package should get better as it worked well against WMU in the first half

^ EVIDENCE

I said it in reply to you that it was late in the game and WMU had figure out their DL by inserting multiple new players and had the jumbo package, that's what teams do make adjustments.
I get it you hate the jumbo package and don't want us to use it.

I don't hate it I just think it isn't the most effective way for this team to score inside the 5.

All the teams once they saw this package have stopped it. It was the first game and WMU wasn't ready for it and after half time they were and let's add very undersized as well.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Did the talent on Clemson’s DL have anything to do with that?

Not sure this has any merit. Dino didnt run it out there thinking, "this will probably suck because these guys they have up front are really good." If you know it is not going to be effective or might not be effective, you probably try something different.

 

[TheCusian]

I don't hate it I just think it isn't the most effective way for this team to score inside the 5.

All the teams once they saw this package have stopped it. It was the first game and WMU wasn't ready for it and after half time they were and let's add very undersized as well.

We've scored 9 rushing TDs from the 1 or 2.

 

[money3189]

I understand that logic but catching them off guard from the 1-2 or 3? TD's have to be scored and not hope that by struggling X amount of times that in the future you'll catch them off guard by not scoring now.

Not talking about catching them off guard on the actual play. Everything that is scripted vs an opponent is meant to manipulate the defense and provide scoring opportunities later in the game. The staff knows which plays have a high or low percentage chance of working vs that particular team. They decide to keep it or throw it out for that week. Certain packages or plays are meant to trick teams into keeping a certain defensive personnel in the game that they can take advantage off. Looking at 2,3,4 yards gain is a simplistic way of looking at it and I'm not trying to be funny.

 

[money3189]

you cant just say its not been effective. we have more running tds by far than we have had the last few years. you really need to look at the plays and see why they dont work. last week the best DT we will see was blowing up stuff and FSU #5 clearly was too good and blew up plays that were well blocked. plays that dont work you have to decide if its a bad play, bad blocking, or good play by the D. people make it sound like well just call a different running play and all will be good. one thing this has done is limit the bad plays in short yardage, they dont all go for TDs but they havent gone for 5 yd losses either.

I think the issue is that our oline does not get good push on most running plays because of the RPO and that causes more issues when its a clear running play. more dynamic power backs would help with some of that.

Right and people have to take into account that the staff is trying to keep Dungey healthy.

 

[PhatOrange]

Red zone TD scoring %.

Red zone TD % is not a stat for the jumbo package being a failure. I thought there might be an actual statistic for how many times it's been run and how many times it has succeeded or failed when run.

I would also think you need to include it's use for .the "down and short" distances when the goal is to pick up a first down.

 

[GoSU96]

The biggest weakness coming into this year has been close redzone, short yardage, and running general. The use of the jumbo set is as much about establishing an attitude for the long haul as it is about a particular play. I love it. Last week showed they had a ways to go against elite defenses. I’m very encouraged on where this investment is going to go the rest of the way.

 

[money3189]

The biggest weakness coming into this year has been close redzone, short yardage, and running general. The use of the jumbo set is as much about establishing an attitude for the long haul as it is about a particular play. I love it. Last week showed they had a ways to go against elite defenses. I’m very encouraged on where this investment is going to go the rest of the way.

Agree with establishing an attitude. On top of that, with 35 years of experience, if its something you believe in, you figure out ways to get better at it. You don't totally scrap it.

 

[PhatOrange]

one of these times Elmore or Kleinberg will break off and we'll throw a wide open pass to them in the flat.

 

[TheCusian]

When we are on the 1, this year’s stats say run the ball with ED. Probably twice, if needed.

I really don’t want to rewatch all of our games to see if it’s the jumbo or not...

 

[kcsu]

The biggest weakness coming into this year has been close redzone, short yardage, and running general. The use of the jumbo set is as much about establishing an attitude for the long haul as it is about a particular play. I love it. Last week showed they had a ways to go against elite defenses. I’m very encouraged on where this investment is going to go the rest of the way.

Im not. I want to see us throw out of that package. We need to mix it up. As it has become to predictable.

 

[Jake]

Eh...some of you need to go back and watch the 3rd and < 2 from two years ago. I thought our short yardage package has been fine. Watch the first touchdown vs Clemson. Elmore destroys a guy and Dungey hugs his hip.

Is there room for improvement, sure. But it’s fine. The play calling inside the 10 is a muuuuuuuch bigger issue.