Just have to add myself to the list

[Jasoncuse]

Welcome to the club. It really sucks because Syracuse basketball used to bring me so much joy. Now I have no idea when we play and I certainly won’t watch games.

I’m done with this program until Boeheim is gone. Not another dollar spent on tickets, gear, anything. I’m at a point of just complete apathy.

You have to hope the Athletic Department starts putting the school over the coach. How much revenue do they want to lose?

 

[pokercuse08]

We’re not even close to an NIT level program. We’re a full rung under that. And he’s STILL HERE.

This probably won't go over well, but I'll say it anyway. We're not a blue blood. We're not Duke, UNC or Kentucky. I hate it, but that's the truth. We're not *entitled* to be a top destination for hoops coaches.

Boeheim already stayed on too long, if we miss on the next hire this could get REALLY ugly REALLY fast. We're a small private school in the 87th media market with brutal winter weather. Our history will only go so far for so long. OK, our ACC money helps. But a large and passionate fanbase is what really gives our program its prestige, and that fanbase is already starting to talk about becoming apathetic.

 

[HakAttack]

This probably won't go over well, but I'll say it anyway. We're not a blue blood. We're not Duke, UNC or Kentucky. I hate it, but that's the truth. We're not *entitled* to be a top destination for hoops coaches.

Boeheim already stayed on too long, if we miss on the next hire this could get REALLY ugly REALLY fast. We're a small private school in the 87th media market with brutal winter weather. Our history will only go so far for so long. OK, our ACC money helps. But a large and passionate fanbase is what really gives our program its prestige, and that fanbase is already starting to talk about becoming apathetic.

Not anymore, we're not. We were right below the Tier 1 blue bloods (Duke, UCLA, Kansas UNC and Kentucky.) But we were definitely in that second tier of Tier 2 historical "blue blood" basketball schools like Michigan St, UConn, Louisville, Indiana, etc.

And now we're lucky to even be in the conversation.

 

[pokercuse08]

But we were absolutely in that second tier of Tier 2 historical "blue blood" basketball schools like Michigan St, UConn, Louisville, Indiana, etc.

Yup, I agree. We were historically in the second tier, and nothing is guaranteed in that tier. A smooth hand off would have made things much better, but it is what it is now. We've got to hit the next hire. Without looking too far into it, I'm sure there are past tier 2 blue bloods that have fallen by the wayside and are a footnote now. If we hit the next hire, we can be back, but if not... Yikes.

 

[IthacaMatt]

You have to hope the Athletic Department starts putting the school over the coach. How much revenue do they want to lose?

It seems to me that's the part they can't ignore any longer. Worst attendance in 20 years.
Next year will probably be 10-12,000 per game if they don't replace him.
That's going to hurt the funding of other sports programs. Will we have to drop sports?
I mean, how long are they going to just ignore this?

 

[dollarbill44]

Your right that was 2 days before Hop announced he was leaving

Hop read that and said, "Nope. No thanks."

 

[Newhouser]

Ehh, he cares. We’ve had a couple posters who have sat courtside both home and away who talk about his energy during the games. People think he doesn’t care because it creates an easy problem to solve - find someone who does. If he cares AND the team is still struggling then there is a bigger problem at hand, one not as easily solved.

He needs to care more when doing the part of his job that takes place outside of the actual games.

 

[dollarbill44]

This probably won't go over well, but I'll say it anyway. We're not a blue blood. We're not Duke, UNC or Kentucky. I hate it, but that's the truth. We're not *entitled* to be a top destination for hoops coaches.

Boeheim already stayed on too long, if we miss on the next hire this could get REALLY ugly REALLY fast. We're a small private school in the 87th media market with brutal winter weather. Our history will only go so far for so long. OK, our ACC money helps. But a large and passionate fanbase is what really gives our program its prestige, and that fanbase is already starting to talk about becoming apathetic.

SU is a private school, but it is not a small private school and the winters aren't brutal anymore.
The influx of Micron employees, if that does actually happen, will help grow the media market. The fanbase will grow too, but only if SU makes the right coaching hires.
But, I fear the passion of the fanbase is dying and has been for quite some time now.
The good news is that it can come back fast. Duke had a tiny, quiet fanbase until about 1987. Most of their supporters have never even been to Durham. That can be our rebuild model (yuck).

 

[Cuse181]

He needs to care more when doing the part of his job that takes place outside of the actual games.

Perhaps he is, and perhaps the team is that bad

 

[pokercuse08]

SU is a private school, but it is not a small private school

The average ACC school has 27K students. We have under 22K. We're trying to compete with schools in-conference with up to 45K. We're not small in the landscape of all universities or all private universities. But we're small in the landscape of universities trying to be top 10 basketball programs.

(in no particular order other than first 5 are top tier blue bloods, next five aren't)

UNC 32K
Duke 18K
UCLA 48K
Kansas 28K
Kentucky 32K
Michigan St 50K
UConn 33K
Louisville 22K
Indiana 45K
Arizona 49K

the winters aren't brutal anymore.

It'll get to that point, but I just pulled up the 10 day and it doesn't look like fun up there right now.

The influx of Micron employees, if that does actually happen, will help grow the media market.

Hopefully.

The fanbase will grow too, but only if SU makes the right coaching hires.

Agreed.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Well, he cares enough to coach hard during games and I'm sure he's doing his normal work at practice, too. But he's not pounding the pavement or logging any frequent flier miles to go recruiting, right?

What is "his normal work at practice?"

It has been said for a while now that he just watches the first half of practice from a catwalk. I feel like i've been punked every time i type this. I want an insider to swear on a Vitale book that this is true.

Does the onset of this scheme coincide with the sleeping photo and our ignominious slide into mediocrity?

 

[kingtidge]

Perhaps he is, and perhaps the team is that bad

Either way, he's responsible for his job and that means good recruiting and teaching and running a system that puts the team in a position to succeed.

And yes, making sure the team isn't really bad is also his responsibility.

 

[pokercuse08]

What is "his normal work at practice?"

It has been said for a while now that he just watches the first half of practice from a catwalk. I feel like i've been punked every time i type this. I want an insider to swear on a Vitale book that this is true.

Does the onset of this scheme coincide with the sleeping photo and our ignominious slide into mediocrity?

I mean I have no inside info, and I haven't been following super closely lately, so I could be way off base here. Either way my point is he's not all-in and the degree to which he's not all-in doesn't really matter when the results are this bad for this long. He's not coasting by on reputation at this point, nor are his assistants picking up the slack. A change is needed.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

It’s sickening how fast this program fell into irrelevance. Look at what I wrote. And this was BEFORE Hop left.

“And if this more about what Boeheim has built, than about HIM, then we'll be ok. I'm anticipating a drop-off, all programs go through peaks and valleys, but to me this feels like we're very close to returning to the "lucky to be ranked" years of the early 00's and much closer to the ineptitude of the 07'-08' back to back NIT era.”

We’re not even close to an NIT level program. We’re a full rung under that. And he’s STILL HERE. I wrote that with the idea that we’d be at that level once he was gone. Jeez.

The 2007-08 NIT years were more a product of being snakebitten by injuries and off-court stuff than anything else, IMO.

 

[two3zone]

I've only missef like 5 games since 98. Watching is not as fun as it used to be though.

This is where I’m at, will never miss a game, but it’s not the same. The pulse doesn’t move anymore.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I'm not worried about a recovery. We have to nail the next hire, but even if we don't, SU basketball will survive. The issue as always, is wins. And the question is simply, can we get someone here who'll get us wins again. The answer is unequivocally YES!
First things first though .. he's gotta go.
Not at the end of next year, blah blah blah , but after this season.
Mark my words, if JB comes back for one more year it'll literally set us back an extra 3 years to recovery. We need to rip the band-aid now, before the wound gets any more infected. Jmho

 

[Cuse99&01]

I still try to watch every game (other than when one of my daughter's has their own game). For the last few years I have told myself I am as invested and cared as much for Cuse bball as I did 20 years ago. But one night during a game earlier this season my wife commented that she noticed that i don't cheer and/or get as upset, and am visibly less animated throughout the games as I once was. I guess no matter how much I try to tell/convince myself i still love Cuse bball, sadly the truth is some of that love and passion is gone.

 

[JimBoston]

Not anymore, we're not. We absolutely were a Tier 1 blue blood, in that we've never been Duke, UCLA, Kansas UNC or Kentucky. But we were absolutely in that second tier of Tier 2 historical "blue blood" basketball schools like Michigan St, UConn, Louisville, Indiana, etc.

And now we're lucky to even be in the conversation.

Most of the above schools have struggled after they had to replace their legendary coach. By definition, a blue blood program can win with different coaches because the fan base, facilities, financial resources, proximity to recruits,.. are all there. I believe Syracuse checks the blue blood boxes, but we will only find out after Boeheim retires and everyone should anticipate the transition may not go smoothly.

 

[Dinkyspond]

I still try to watch every game (other than when one of my daughter's has their own game). For the last few years I have told myself I am as invested and cared as much for Cuse bball as I did 20 years ago. But one night during a game earlier this season my wife commented that she noticed that i don't cheer and/or get as upset, and am visibly less animated throughout the games as I once was. I guess no matter how much I try to tell/convince myself i still love Cuse bball, sadly the truth is some of that love and passion is gone.

It's true, I would become frustrated and upset with losses like the last 3. Now, I just shrug and accept it. It's where we're at. A mediocre and middling program that is either an NCAA bubble team or out completely.

 

[DilemaCuse]

The average ACC school has 27K students. We have under 22K. We're trying to compete with schools in-conference with up to 45K. We're not small in the landscape of all universities or all private universities. But we're small in the landscape of universities trying to be top 10 basketball programs.

(in no particular order other than first 5 are top tier blue bloods, next five aren't)

UNC 32K
Duke 18K
UCLA 48K
Kansas 28K
Kentucky 32K
Michigan St 50K
UConn 33K
Louisville 22K
Indiana 45K
Arizona 49K



It'll get to that point, but I just pulled up the 10 day and it doesn't look like fun up there right now.


Hopefully.



Agreed.

Your not wrong on enrollment numbers but it's more of a factor in football. Now if the football team can get ranked in 18 and 22 during the season, there is no excuse for the basketball team to not just match but easily exceed that.

 

[pokercuse08]

Your not wrong on enrollment numbers but it's more of a factor in football. Now if the football team can get ranked in 18 and 22 during the season, there is no excuse for the basketball team to not just match but easily exceed that.

I agree, but it's still a factor, and I have a feeling it's going to become more of a factor going forward as more and more money pours into college hoops.

You're probably going to see more SEC and B1G schools rising to that second tier of blue bloods as a result. They're going to be able to buy themselves coaches and teams. What's going to stop them? Pick your favorite coaching candidate. What happens if we offer them $3.5M and Georgia offers them $7M? What happens when SEC and B1G schools that haven't really invested in a top basketball program do so and then start playing in NBA arenas or building bigger arenas on campus?

The landscape is changing, and our beloved program is a spectator watching it change as our dinosaur head coach makes snarky comments about the meteor.

And this "if the football team can then there's no excuse" logic is missing a few things. First, that's not how it works. Babers is a pretty good head coach getting pretty close to the max out of our program, and we need to nail the basketball hire.

Further, in the last five years (and we all know that's a friendly sample size for YOUR position not mine), they've been ranked in three of five seasons, peaking at #12. They've been ranked post-season once. Pre-season once. That's not a level of success we would find remotely enjoyable for our basketball program. We don't need to match it or exceed it, we need to exceed it by a LOT to maintain the status quo.

From 1972 to 2017, Syracuse basketball was ranked in 44 of 45 seasons. Looking more recently, we reached the top 10 at some point in the season in 11 of 15 years from 99-00 to 2013-14. Top 5 in 7 of 14. So from '99 to '14 we had legit national title hopes more often than not.

It's obviously easier for us to succeed at basketball than at football for structural reasons, but a lot of those reasons are evaporating and the landscape is shifting to favor the schools sitting at the big boy table as far as the money is concerned.

We've got to stop watching and adapt to the new lanscape. One of the most important things we need to do is admit that this is not going to be automatic or easy, and there *are* going to be available excuses. The path of least resistance that we've been on is going to be Boeheim handing it off to Autry or another assistant/former assistant who runs the program similarly to the way Boeheim has run it because that's what he wants. The school could easily do this and make excuses.

That path leads to mediocrity and trying to bring the program back from the dead in five years in a landscape where the top 25 is littered with SEC and B1G schools awash in money that we can't even hope to match.

 

[pokercuse08]

After writing that post, I want to express one of my big regrets about Syracuse hoops. After the tourney run in 2021 and immediately after the loss to U of H, I told my friends we should really enjoy the next 1-2 years of Syracuse basketball and understand that they might be our last golden years for a long, long time.

It looked like we had a pretty good core to return and Benny coming in. When Kadary hit the transfer portal, that sinking feeling set in.

Anyway, I wish I appreciated those runs in '13 and '16 more. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the heck out of them... But I didn't even begin to think that they might be our last deep tourney runs for who knows how long.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Yup. I remember that.

Boeheim should do the right thing and step down now.

His recruiting has fallen off a cliff the last 4-5 seasons. His inability to commit to a firm retirement date is killing the stability of this program. He can't manage a team effectively anymore. The JB of ten years ago would have won 2-3 more games at least with this team and gotten us into the...

syracusefan.com

I got a lot of flack for it at the time, and this is definitely one of those instances where I take zero pleasure in being right.

Pretty epic thread. Yes, Hak was correct with his take. Reading over the thread, nobody was contemplating JB hanging on for another 6+ years. It was all about retire now (2017) or very soon (2-3 more years max). It just goes to show that when you hang on way too long the results are never good and the hole just keeps getting deeper.

One of the funnier takes in that thread was around Lydon going pro and the impact that would have on the next season (predictably it happened and we were mediocre). But I find it extremely amusing that in the timeframe of that thread until now that Lydon went pro and RETIRED from professional basketball. The thread was all about when JB should retire and we’ve had players play their entire professional careers and make the call to retire because they know they can’t compete at the highest level anymore…….and then there’s the JB retirement philosophy that there’s no such thing as retirement and he’ll come up with every excuse in the book to defend his abysmal performance both on and off the court.

Stick a cork in JB, he’s a washed up has been.

 

[samspann1]

Yup. I remember that.

Boeheim should do the right thing and step down now.

His recruiting has fallen off a cliff the last 4-5 seasons. His inability to commit to a firm retirement date is killing the stability of this program. He can't manage a team effectively anymore. The JB of ten years ago would have won 2-3 more games at least with this team and gotten us into the...

syracusefan.com

I got a lot of flack for it at the time, and this is definitely one of those instances where I take zero pleasure in being right.

Great read.

 

[Doc5120]

I still try to watch every game (other than when one of my daughter's has their own game). For the last few years I have told myself I am as invested and cared as much for Cuse bball as I did 20 years ago. But one night during a game earlier this season my wife commented that she noticed that i don't cheer and/or get as upset, and am visibly less animated throughout the games as I once was. I guess no matter how much I try to tell/convince myself i still love Cuse bball, sadly the truth is some of that love and passion is gone.

I'm there with you. I find myself not yelling or screaming (maybe that is for the better), and I just do not care like I did as recently as 3-4 years ago. I'm completely apathetic. I recall losing my mind during big regular season games, only to reach stupid heights during conference tournies and the NCAA tournament.

Tonight I'm missing the game because I help coach my 2 oldest sons basketball teams (a K-2 league and a 3-4 league), and sadly...at least the 3-4 league, is a more enjoyable hour of my time than sitting on the couch watching Syracuse basketball. I can't even believe I just typed that, to be honest. The state of the program is at quite the low, and we need change immediately.