Just heard of a new 2014 PG you guys are looking at...

[OttoinGrotto]

Honestly, I don't know that there are any 5th year transfer candidates remaining who would help fill this void

Carlino's still out there...

 

[PeteCalvin]

Kansas is the favorite to land Graham

Kansas. Rock Chalk Schmuck. Since when has KU produced any outstanding PG's?

 

[two3zone]

Well, he went 7-21 in his last game, and his assists were WAY down over the last few games of the season.

And without him we probably would have been around .500 on the season and NBA bound.

I was talking about the season in general.

 

[Dave85]

Kansas. Rock Chalk Schmuck. Since when has KU produced any outstanding PG's?

They sure get a lot of highly rated recruits. How the heck do they lure them to Kansas? Not that Syracuse is a vacation resort. But man, Kansas. Holy cow there's nothing there.

 

[RF2044]

Well since he seemed to want to come to Syracuse, if he played behind the back court we had. Do you think it would have been the same situation? Jump to the NBA without any playing time in College?

"The back court we had"

That's right--we had Scoop and Triche as returning starters. Plus Dion. We didn't need to bring in two point guards. We targeted one--and got the one we wanted in MCW. We also brought in Cooney that year.

There wasn't room for Wroten.

 

[baggerbob]

Next years backcourt is full of question marks, so bringing in a quality backcourt player to compete for time would be a good idea.

 

[CuseFanInFl]

"The back court we had"

That's right--we had Scoop and Triche as returning starters. Plus Dion. We didn't need to bring in two point guards. We targeted one--and got the one we wanted in MCW. We also brought in Cooney that year.

There wasn't room for Wroten.

Yet if he had come here, he would have been back up to MCW and then most likely starting over Ennis last year pushing Ennis to this coming year leaving us without all these PG questions. No?

 

[RF2044]

Yet if he had come here, he would have been back up to MCW and then most likely starting over Ennis last year pushing Ennis to this coming year leaving us without all these PG questions. No?

Sorry, the transitive property doesn't work. We landed MCW, and didn't recruit Wroten. Ergo, he wasn't coming here under any circumstances. He was looking for a quick path to the league, not to be somewhere for 3 years, as a backup for 2.

And if we had Wroten, maybe we don't land Ennis in later recruiting classes. Or Jospeh.

The reason for our depleted backcourt depth is that Dion, MCW, and now Ennis all went pro earlier than expected. I don't begrudge them for that, BTW. But if any one of those players had decided not to jump quite so early, our backcourt situation would have been completely different the last three years.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Yet if he had come here, he would have been back up to MCW and then most likely starting over Ennis last year pushing Ennis to this coming year leaving us without all these PG questions. No?

I'm sure Ennis would be fine coming here to backup Tony Wroten.

 

[SoBeCuse]

They sure get a lot of highly rated recruits. How the heck do they lure them to Kansas? Not that Syracuse is a vacation resort. But man, Kansas. Holy cow there's nothing there.

One can certainly argue that some of these college towns like Lawrence (not far from KC anyways) definitely Bloomington, Iowa City, Ames, etc. are nicer places than Syracuse.

 

[timkay99]

The reason for our depleted backcourt depth is that Dion, MCW, and now Ennis all went pro earlier than expected. I don't begrudge them for that, BTW. But if any one of those players had decided not to jump quite so early, our backcourt situation would have been completely different the last three years.

I think the only one who went pro earlier then expected was Ennis. No chance either MCW or Dion was going to be here as a junior.

 

[RF2044]

I think the only one who went pro earlier then expected was Ennis. No chance either MCW or Dion was going to be here as a junior.

That's debatable. Dion didn't start a game during his two years on the hill.

There was a chance that MCW would return, but his family situation with the house made his departure a no-brainer.

 

[CuseFanInFl]

I'm sure Ennis would be fine coming here to backup Tony Wroten.

Why wouldn't he? MCW came in as a backup. So did Dion and many others. Didn't stop them from coming here.

Wroten knew who we had when he was wanting to come to Syracuse. He would have been beaten out and been a backup most likely staying longer or pushing someone else to backup role and maybe they stay longer.

Are you saying we shouldn't recruit extra players at arguably the most important position?

 

[timkay99]

That's debatable. Dion didn't start a game during his two years on the hill.

There was a chance that MCW would return, but his family situation with the house made his departure a no-brainer.

I am referring to the coaching staffs thoughts (and recruiting for backcourt).

I believe when they recruited both, they would have been ecstatic to get 2 years from them. (And I think McCullough and Joseph fall in that same category)

Then I think if you jump to their individual decisions, Dion was a top 10 pick, so he was never coming back at that point. MCW was worst case falling to the 15-20 range and then the helium he had from the tourney insured that going pro was in his best interest.

I think guys projected as sure first rounders, our track record of getting them back isn't very good.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Why wouldn't he? MCW came in as a backup. So did Dion and many others. Didn't stop them from coming here.

Wroten knew who we had when he was wanting to come to Syracuse. He would have been beaten out and been a backup most likely staying longer or pushing someone else to backup role and maybe they stay longer.

Are you saying we shouldn't recruit extra players at arguably the most important position?

Extra players? We had four guys already for 11/12 when we were recruiting him...Jardine, Triche, Dion, and MCW. And we were recruiting Ennis. Now should the staff have had the clairvoyance to realize those last three guys were going to leave early? I guess so.

 

[RF2044]

I am referring to the coaching staffs thoughts (and recruiting for backcourt).

I believe when they recruited both, they would have been ecstatic to get 2 years from them. (And I think McCullough and Joseph fall in that same category)

Then I think if you jump to their individual decisions, Dion was a top 10 pick, so he was never coming back at that point. MCW was worst case falling to the 15-20 range and then the helium he had from the tourney insured that going pro was in his best interest.

I think guys projected as sure first rounders, our track record of getting them back isn't very good.

I'm not sure how you can presume to be in the coaching staffs' heads in terms of how many years they expected to get from each player.

Dion wasn't considered universally a top 10 pick. Most draft projections had him lower--some outside of the lottery--but he gained a lot of momentum over the last couple of weeks. And even so, many were scratching their heads when he went so high. Hindsight's always 20-20.

Third, I agree with your point about MCW having momentum from the tourney. However, I'll point out that this was a [very] late season development. It wasn't a fait accompli that he was gone. And he went #11, not quite as high as hoped.

Time will certainly tell with both Joseph and McCullough. For the record, I think many are overestimating CM because they've heard that he is a prospective one-and-done. He is a stud athlete with very little offensive refinement.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Yet if he had come here, he would have been back up to MCW and then most likely starting over Ennis last year pushing Ennis to this coming year leaving us without all these PG questions. No?

Dude, no room in the inn for Wroten then. Wroten comes then no Ennis. Wroten would've been probably only a 2-yr player anyways. As RF and others have stated; you can't predict MCW's and Dion's stock going up and up hence the defections. The staff I am sure did not envision Ennis being one and done. Do I wish they would've brought in another guard last year? Yes. There was actually room and I bet they weren't sure what Gbinjie would bring and Patterson was not being considered at all nor should he have been most likely. I bet if Rysheed Jordan or Cat Barber had wanted to come and split time with Ennis then they would've taken one of them. Currently there is a need and obviously room for another PG/ballhandler. Something I believe we will desperately need. We did not need what you are suggesting back then.

 

[timkay99]

I'm not sure how you can presume to be in the coaching staffs' heads in terms of how many years they expected to get from each player.

Dion wasn't considered universally a top 10 pick. Most draft projections had him lower--some outside of the lottery--but he gained a lot of momentum over the last couple of weeks. And even so, many were scratching their heads when he went so high. Hindsight's always 20-20.

Third, I agree with your point about MCW having momentum from the tourney. However, I'll point out that this was a [very] late season development. It wasn't a fait accompli that he was gone. And he went #11, not quite as high as hoped.

Time will certainly tell with both Joseph and McCullough. For the record, I think many are overestimating CM because they've heard that he is a prospective one-and-done. He is a stud athlete with very little offensive refinement.

Well, we are all presuming.

But, per Dion declaring, Boeheim himself said he is the most NBA ready guard he has ever had (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/06...re-ready-for-nba-than-any-guard-ive-ever-had/). So, I think to say Dion left earlier then expected is a reach as it relates to JB's comment above. I agree Dion was drafted ahead of where expected, but he was always going to be worst case of late lottery to mid 1st.

Even before his late season push, MCW was in the same boat as Grant, IMO. 1st rounder, but probably a range from 15-29. Like I said, I don't think our track record on returning guys like that is good.

For McCullough, I think the staff assumed he was a 2 year guy at best when he committed (his ranking was in the top 5 I believe at that time). Maybe their thinking has changed now, maybe not. I personally think there is too much bashing of CM's game. Reading some of the reports on him from our board, I don't know how this guys plays as a true frosh...

 

[CuseFanInFl]

Dude, no room in the inn for Wroten then. Wroten comes then no Ennis. Wroten would've been probably only a 2-yr player anyways. As RF and others have stated; you can't predict MCW's and Dion's stock going up and up hence the defections. The staff I am sure did not envision Ennis being one and done. Do I wish they would've brought in another guard last year? Yes. There was actually room and I bet they weren't sure what Gbinjie would bring and Patterson was not being considered at all nor should he have been most likely. I bet if Rysheed Jordan or Cat Barber had wanted to come and split time with Ennis then they would've taken one of them. Currently there is a need and obviously room for another PG/ballhandler. Something I believe we will desperately need. We did not need what you are suggesting back then.

"Do I wish they would've brought in another guard last year?"

This has been my argument. Wroten was just the example I used as someone we didn't recruit but wanted to be here.

 

[SoBeCuse]

"Do I wish they would've brought in another guard last year?"

This has been my argument. Wroten was just the example I used as someone we didn't recruit but wanted to be here.

Okay, but he's not a good example. Yes he wanted to come here but there was no room. I think the staff wanted Jordan or Barber IF they wanted to come and split or play 2nd fiddle to Ennis. They did not. Can't win them all.

 

[ORRange]

I was under the impression that the staff considered Wroten a combo guard and had no need to recruit him after Cooney verbaled. It had nothing to do with the PG position and who was here. The staff got the guy they wanted.

 

[Dave85]

UCONN won a NC with a Junior and Senior PGs. I think you need more than one PG to win a NC.

Triche/MCW was good combination. It's too bad the dumb foul call on Triche during the Michigan game. MCW going to the NBA made a lot more sense to me than Ennis. I just don't think Ennis is good enough to play guard in the NBA. He's too slow and not physically strong enough.

 

[HOFCeluck]

UCONN won a NC with a Junior and Senior PGs. I think you need more than one PG to win a NC.

Triche/MCW was good combination. It's too bad the dumb foul call on Triche during the Michigan game. MCW going to the NBA made a lot more sense to me than Ennis. I just don't think Ennis is good enough to play guard in the NBA. He's too slow and not physically strong enough.

Just recruit a top 100 player and turn him into a poy candidate by his senior year. That's what I'd do.

 

[Dave85]

Just recruit a top 100 player and turn him into a poy candidate by his senior year. That's what I'd do.

Always seems like there are never enough players at one position or another. I hope Rak, Obokoh, and McColl next year gives enough low post offense and defense.

I think we will have the same trouble we had this year at guard.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Committed to Kansas today.