Kaleb Joseph "is now a sophomore"

[OttoinGrotto]

Really? Those are two things that I'd say he's done well. He seems like a very solid passer who has a good feel for setting up his teammates.

The things I'd knock would be confidence in his handle, defense, etc. But playmaking is not something I'd say is a criticism I'd worry about with Kaleb. Just my two cents.

That's what I was thinking too.

 

[longtimefan]

I disagree. He seems more focused on just getting us into our offense than playmaking as a passer. His lack of turnovers come from not trying to do too much, which cuts both ways. He has gotten more aggressive in looking for his shot, starting with the BC game. I do agree with you that he has tremendous potential.

I don't know what to make of his awful defense. It is REALLY BAD.

His defense was more than adequate in the 2nd half.

 

[jekelish]

but are you using turnovers per minute or bad turnovers or im not sure what. kaleb doesn't play that much compared to those other guys, he commits bad turnovers and takes bad shots in transition. having said that I like the player and I want to see him after an offseason

Doesn't play that much? He's averaging 29.5 minutes per game. That's more than Brandon Triche or Michael Edwards played, for instance, and only about 6 minutes fewer than Ennis, Flynn, and McNamara averaged. He's only played fewer than 20 minutes three times all season, and played 30 or more 13 times.

And I'm just looking at total turnovers for the season. Obviously that doesn't tell the whole story. No sh** it doesn't. But it's still interesting to note.

 

[orangehomer]

Doesn't play that much? He's averaging 29.5 minutes per game. That's more than Brandon Triche or Michael Edwards played, for instance, and only about 6 minutes fewer than Ennis, Flynn, and McNamara averaged.

And I'm just looking at total turnovers for the season. Obviously that doesn't tell the whole story. No sh** it doesn't. But it's still interesting to note.

fair enough

 

[Cusefan0307]

I disagree. He seems more focused on just getting us into our offense than playmaking as a passer. His lack of turnovers come from not trying to do too much, which cuts both ways. He has gotten more aggressive in looking for his shot, starting with the BC game. I do agree with you that he has tremendous potential.

I don't know what to make of his awful defense. It is REALLY BAD.

The offense doesn't run through Joseph like it has with our previous guards. That's why you see him not making flashy plays in the initial part of the offense. We are focused on getting the ball to Christmas, Gbinije, and Cooney this year. This isn't the past five years where we ran continuous high screen and rolls with Ennis, MCW, Triche, Jardine, and Dion. Joseph hasn't been given total freedom yet and part of that is his current lack of confidence with his handle. That being said, there's no doubt that as long as he improves that and his defense, he will be a very good PG for us.

 

[Orangezoo]

I am strongly against writing Kaleb off at this point. His career path so far reminds me of Marcus Paige at UNC. Frosh year was rough for Paige and his numbers are similar to Kaleb's. Like Kaleb he was erratic and just didn't have a good feel but was really the only option Roy had. He has progressed nicely and I think Kaleb will too. Next year with a talented supporting cast will be the tell tale I think. KJ has the skillset to be a really good scoring PG. He just needs to develop a better court sense and stay confident and aggressive. He will get there.

 

[jekelish]

I am strongly against writing Kaleb off at this point. His career path so far reminds me of Marcus Paige at UNC. Frosh year was rough for Paige and his numbers are similar to Kaleb's. Like Kaleb he was erratic and just didn't have a good feel but was really the only option Roy had. He has progressed nicely and I think Kaleb will too. Next year with a talented supporting cast will be the tell tale I think. KJ has the skillset to be a really good scoring PG. He just needs to develop a better court sense and stay confident and aggressive. He will get there.

Paige might be a good comparison. Looking up player PERs, his and Joseph's are very similar for their respective freshman seasons.

 

[ORRange]

Our offense runs the best when G is playing the point and breaking down the smaller guards trying to cover him. G is our best PG and if we are to succeed next year JB will have to give him the reins. I've seen the same mistakes from KJ since the Michigan game. It's not rocket science. JB needs to give give G 30 minutes a game at PG right now to get him ready for next year. Kaleb just is not progressing fast enough. He is not an ACC PG at this point of his career and been given plenty of opportunity. Iommi is absolutely correct, he is a combo type guard. You just can't succeed at PG in this league with his handle. That's why he goes sideways and picks up his dribble all the time. He's scared of getting picked. This experiment should stop before it's too late and we are 9-4 next December. He should work hard and try to win the position, not be given it by default because the offense looks great when the ball is in G's hands.

 

[UD1954]

Where Kaleb ends up is anybody's guess...he can dribble but he doesn't have a point guards handle (anybody whose played the game knows what I'm talking about)....he doesn't have a lot of turnovers because he just gets us into our offense sets and doesn't create anything himself...his defense is offensive...it baffles me how such a good athlete can't stay in front of anyone.

 

[two3zone]

I'm not knocking Ennis or saying Joseph is great. But how did Ennis exactly run the offense differently or more effectively? I know he had a better assist to turnover ratio but it seemed like Ennis either passed it to Grant for an ISO play, Fair for an ISO play, passed it to Cooney coming off a screen or shot it himself.

I promise I'm not discounting what Ennis did and am not comparing him to Joseph in any way, I'm just trying to understand why Joseph gets so much crap that he does. Take away those couple high turnover games, Cooney hits a few more shots in the beginning of the year, G plays like he's playing now and McCullough doesn't fall off the cliff we did and Joseph is leading an undefeated team 15 games in and looks great. I feel bad for the kid, probably worse than anybody to come through the program. You can see how hard he tries and can see the talent along with that very solid mid range pull up shot.

 

[44doubledees]

The thing that I want to see Kaleb develop is that floater in the lane, every other point guard that plays us that gets in the lane goes to that floater and it always seems to drop, Kaleb can get into the lane and in todays college game you need that floater to start to draw the center out. He has a nice pullup and that is great, but IMHO if he can develop that floater things will open up in the paint for him including better passing lanes. I hope he returns with that in the arsenal next year.

 

[jordoo]

I may not be recalling things well from last night but didn't Joseph make a pretty big jumper to counter an Lville 3 late when we were hovering in that 2-5 point lead area late? Didn't he make a sick driving layup off the glass while getting fouled (with no call) when the defense sold out on denying Rak? Didn't he make perhaps the biggest bucket of the game late in the clock on a nice drive, stop, gather and shot over a big? Did he not have 2-3 very nice feeds to Christmas down the stretch which resulted in a bucket and a couple trips to the line?

Yes he is making mistakes and is still an unfinished product but he is sooooo much better than he was early on this season. He is a willing playmaker at this point even in the big moments which is huge for pressuring the defense. I actually think he has been getting close to making a 3 in recent games but they just won't drop. My biggest gripe with Joseph at this point is his defense and his decision making in transition. He and Cooney with the ball on the break out front by themselves have to have the worst finishing percentage of any two starting guards we've ever had. I still feel that for Kaleb the defense is partially that he has just been in way over his head all season and he been trying so hard to stay afloat in all aspects that he just hasn't fully grasped the D and is thinking rather than reacting. Yes the hands not being up all the time is inexcusable and he simply needs to do it but Scoop had this same issue closing out early in his career and he did improve with it. I have no worries anymore with Joseph on offense. He will come back stronger, quicker, with an improved left hand, better understanding of his position and most importantly some confidence in his game and some ownership in next years team. He'll get there and is inching along with the improvements its just not happening by leaps and bounds.

 

[jekelish]

Where Kaleb ends up is anybody's guess...he can dribble but he doesn't have a point guards handle (anybody whose played the game knows what I'm talking about)...he doesn't have a lot of turnovers because he just gets us into our offense sets and doesn't create anything himself...his defense is offensive...it baffles me how such a good athlete can't stay in front of anyone.

With regard to his handle (and I have played point guard), the thing that always jumps out at me is his remarkable lack of awareness of his surroundings when he's bringing the ball up the floor. That's the biggest thing, offensively, that concerns me with him. He never feels defenders coming and instinctively shields the ball.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I disagree. He seems more focused on just getting us into our offense than playmaking as a passer. His lack of turnovers come from not trying to do too much, which cuts both ways. He has gotten more aggressive in looking for his shot, starting with the BC game. I do agree with you that he has tremendous potential.

I don't know what to make of his awful defense. It is REALLY BAD.

This! And I think that unless it improves that we will not start next year. If it does, then he will be our point guard next year because he's playing pretty well offensively.

 

[Melancer46]

I thought Kaleb played pretty well in the second half last night, but to each their own. I didn't make it to the game until the 2nd half started thanks to the blizzard.

 

[Ghost]

I'm not knocking Ennis or saying Joseph is great. But how did Ennis exactly run the offense differently or more effectively? I know he had a better assist to turnover ratio but it seemed like Ennis either passed it to Grant for an ISO play, Fair for an ISO play, passed it to Cooney coming off a screen or shot it himself. .

I'll give it a shot!

Now, by no means do I think KJ won't be a PG, people whose opinion I respect more than my own say otherwise, so I think it's certainly possible. I still see more of a SG right now playing PG. Which isn't an indictment of the kid - he wasn't supposed to be playing. He should have been Ennis' understudy.

For me, I just don't see the awareness. I'll go with an exanple example. Last night, I would imagine 75% of the board knew after G's first dribble that that play would result in a Roberson oop/dunk. I don't see that type of recognition from Josepg...pretty much ever. Patterson off the bounce has a much better idea of where he's ultimately going with the ball than Joseph. (This isn't to say Joseph hasn't had a nice pass all year - but a lot of his assists were built up by the simple act of playing huge minutes at PG).

He doesn't seem to control the offense much. Waive Cooney off when Rak has a mismatch and make that delivery. God knows Cooney will or cannot do it. Those things he just doesn't do. He doesn't control the offense much at this point. He's also a frosh so it's normal to defer I suppose.

Also, he seems to have no clue what's happening once he's dribbling aggressively. He doesn't know where people are and he doesn't know where they should be going (the latter being the inevitable result of the former). This is highlighted most notably when he goes to the rim and unless the lane opens up altogether, it's all but over. You can pretty much see the What moment every time where he's like, "where'd everyone go". It's slightly problematic. In the open court u can survive a bit more, but once ur in traffic...

I do like his pirate risk though, and he's playing better of late. Happy to see his mid-range game develop, and him hit a huge shot last night.

I'm on my phone...that's all I can type. It's a pain. Lol

 

[longislandcuse]

If Joseph wasn't so bad on defense I wouldn't have much of an issue with his offense lately. He's coming along, albeit at a molasses like rate, but still coming along. Seems to flash the ability to be explosive on drives which I'm sure we'll see more of next year, has a dope mid range game and looks to be an adequate 3 point shooter. Once he gets his defense ratcheted up, he should be a solid player. His vision seems to be getting better now that the game is hopefully slowing down for him.

That being said, he needs to get a lot better for me to see him as a 4 year starter at Cuse.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

If Joseph wasn't so bad on defense I wouldn't have much of an issue with his offense lately. He's coming along, albeit at a molasses like rate, but still coming along. Seems to flash the ability to be explosive on drives which I'm sure we'll see more of next year, has a dope mid range game and looks to be an adequate 3 point shooter. Once he gets his defense ratcheted up, he should be a solid player. His vision seems to be getting better now that the game is hopefully slowing down for him.

That being said, he needs to get a lot better for me to see him as a 4 year starter at Cuse.

This still drives me nuts. I saw equally bad defensive play by all three guards last night. Cooney was slightly better than he normally is, but Patterson gave up an easy drive right down the middle of the lane last night. And Kaleb didn't jack up 8 unnecessary three pointers.

Sometimes I wish Ron got hurt this year so that we wouldn't have another option available. JB wouldn't be able to use his selective quick hook and maybe we would have seen more progress from Kaleb this year.

 

[RF2044]

Finally someone said it and it was the person who matters most Jim Boeheim.

JB said this late in the year you are no longer a freshman and Kaleb can't keep making the same mistakes over and over again but for some reason he is still doing it.

I still have doubts he will ever be a top level college player and going forward for next year this team will really need Silent G to return and be our starting PG

I really don't resonate with the claim that Joseph is a sophomore--he's not. At the tail end of the year, after having started all year, he isn't as inexperienced as an incoming frosh anymore--that's what Boeheim meant. But sophomores have an offseason to work on their games. Sophomores have the offseason to digest their experience and iron out kinks / flaws. Sophomores have a chance to work on their physiques and improve physically. Sophomores have the offseason to address holes in their skill set and improve upon those areas.

Joseph isn't a sophomore. He's a freshman who probably got thrown to the wolves a little bit too early based upon team need, and has been inconsistent--but who will be much better for having been thrown into the crucible when he actually is a SOPHOMORE.

 

[Cusefan0307]

This still drives me nuts. I saw equally bad defensive play by all three guards last night. Cooney was slightly better than he normally is, but Patterson gave up an easy drive right down the middle of the lane last night. And Kaleb didn't jack up 8 unnecessary three pointers.

Sometimes I wish Ron got hurt this year so that we wouldn't have another option available. JB wouldn't be able to use his selective quick hook and maybe we would have seen more progress from Kaleb this year.

Patterson was awful on defense last night. That's why his court time was so brief.

 

[Ghost]

Patterson was awful on defense last night. That's why his court time was so brief.

I was surprised, typically I think Patterson is the best of a bad group. He gave up a lot too last night though.

 

[jordoo]

I was surprised, typically I think Patterson is the best of a bad group. He gave up a lot too last night though.

It seemed his aggressiveness was very misdirected causing him to be out of position. Another thing this group does constantly is that the guard who should have floor balance contain digs down for rebounds and then doesn't get them. It almost always ends up in a run out for the other team. Cooney is the most common offender of this but Kaleb and Ron also do it.

 

[TinyManInside]

I'm not knocking Ennis or saying Joseph is great. But how did Ennis exactly run the offense differently or more effectively? I know he had a better assist to turnover ratio but it seemed like Ennis either passed it to Grant for an ISO play, Fair for an ISO play, passed it to Cooney coming off a screen or shot it himself.

I promise I'm not discounting what Ennis did and am not comparing him to Joseph in any way, I'm just trying to understand why Joseph gets so much crap that he does. Take away those couple high turnover games, Cooney hits a few more shots in the beginning of the year, G plays like he's playing now and McCullough doesn't fall off the cliff we did and Joseph is leading an undefeated team 15 games in and looks great. I feel bad for the kid, probably worse than anybody to come through the program. You can see how hard he tries and can see the talent along with that very solid mid range pull up shot.

I don't really get the legend of Tyler Ennis. We averaged 62.7 ppg last year, the lowest ever for a Boeheim coached team. We played at a Jon Cheney snail's pace, largely because Ennis had no ability to push the ball and never took any chances. He was great (GREAT) at protecting the ball, but most of last year's offense revolved around ISOs like you point out, and Ennis also never figured out a way to incorporate Christmas into the offense. Whenever I think of Ennis, I think 3-6 finish, first round ACC tourney loss, 2nd round NCAA loss to Dayton.

 

[Shermthegeneral]

Wow how times have changed! I for one am very excited about his future! This kid is money within 15 feet and has a great looking shot! Sure he has some flaws but it's very rare that freshman don't. I predict his production will go up 30% year-over-year and I can see him as a senior averaging 15 PTS and 10 AST per game.

 

[jekelish]

Here's how Joseph stacks up against the other freshman point guards in SU history: http://.com/how-does-kaleb-joseph-compare-to-su-freshman-point-guards/