Kansas Can, SU Couldn't Postgame Thread

[cliftonparksufan]

There’s posters openly happy with each loss thinking it’s one more nail in the coffin for Autry and the staff

There’s posters who are more concerned with being right about pointing out the flaws in this team than they are with actually winning games.

And there’s a certain portion of posters who just enjoy it more when things aren’t going well and they can complain incessantly. It’s just not fun for them when we play well.

Call it the "Igor" effect or the "Blue Curtain" syndrome. Guys that come on here and point out every negative.

For example: Cuse won the National Championship in spite of Boeheim's coaching.

In the spirit of Thanksgiving week, why can't people just give thanks that they are alive and well and have a competitive Syracuse basketball team to distract them from everything else that may be wrong in their world around them.

 

[tbonezone]

Is he just fragile?

you speak italiano ?

 

[RedtheGOB]

Kansas was missing their best player too. It’s not an excuse for the offense we are running. You’re making me think you are in fact Red Autry himself posting here.

For the record Kansas has been playing games without Peterson since November 7. Played a close game with Duke without him and multiple games after to settle in. Donnie was a game time decision Monday. Still pissed that he's nursing his chicken legs, if he can walk he should be playing. Rest in December he's got a whole month of cupcakes coming.

The 1st 4 games when we got stagnant it was give the ball to Donnie and do something. Not ideal and I agree the offense should be more. I'll say you're lying if you say other teams don't do the same when they get stagnant. Every team needs a scorer and we don't have one now. I also think Nate George wasn't ready for the increased burden offensively and his play has been not great.

The shot selection and hero ball is a problem for sure, but wasn't against Houston. Guess we'll see today.

 

[NionDion]

The game was disappointing, but not unexpected. We had a war with Houston and they're the most physical team in the country, so it makes sense that our legs seemed dead considering we had less than a 24 hour turnaround. Donnie is the best (and kinda only) interior scorer/shot creator. Without him, our offense is very one dimensional since our guards don't reliably pressure the rim in the half court.

On the bright side, we've seen that we can absolutely hang with the top teams athletically. Kansas and Houston have some monster athletes and we held our own. The last few years we looked slow and small and weak, and that's not the case anymore. There are gonna be games we're hot and games that we're cold, but our athleticism gives us a larger margin for error. Even if this isn't a good shooting team overall, Nait, Kingz, Kiy and Betsey all have track records of being high-level shooters.

 

[MGDCuse]

So much not to like.
-Perhaps the biggest play of the game was when Souare could not get the rebound when we were down 2. Red has said he will play a lot of guys but with a little over 5 minutes left Kansas had their best guys in and we didn't.
-Kiyan cannot be firing up 12 shots, many of which were far behind the three point line and early in the shot clock. He should have been taken out when he stayed down after getting blocked but suddenly was healthy enough to shoot another long three. Bad look for Red. Kiyan's defense was also exploited by Kansas.
-I don't know what JJ brings to the table. Not good shot selection or defense. Betsey, while is he kind of like a better Chris Bell (not a huge compliment), at least can shoot and we would be better off with him starting over JJ.
-Whoever started the insipid thread asking whether/arguing we are better without Donnie should be ashamed of themself. We missed Donnie's scoring and rebounding desperately.
-Kingz needs to get more shots but a couple of his missed threes were huge and he needs to shoot well for us to win. His defense is excellent and for him to play less minutes than JJ is absurd.
-So nice to have a big who dunks and plays hard but you have to feel for Kyle. Any smart coach will foul him when they are in the penalty which will greatly limit his usefulness.
-2 turnovers and we lose by 11. Shaking my mf head.
-It is bad enough that we are not shooting well but our shot selection was awful today. Red cannot let that happen.

Great post. Red can't have JJ and Kiyan on the floor together as much as he has. Probably the 2 worst defenders of the guys that play a lot of minutes. They're both great at getting to the rim, but are also not so great at shot selection. After almost 50 Years of Boehiem, I keep waiting for the "hook" to come after a player makes a bad play, but not so much with Red. I pray that he figures things out but I'm just not seeing a very good coach here. Hopefuly, these are just growing pains and they'll be much better as the season progresses.

 

[tbonezone]

just looking at the box i see Jayhawks starters avg'd about 35 minutes. see how they fair today.
also saw this on espn
"Kansas (5-2) has had an easier pathway through the week in Vegas, with double-digit victories over ACC foes Syracuse and Notre Dame."
not sure bill self would say it was an easy win yesterday .

 

[cliftonparksufan]

The game was disappointing, but not unexpected. We had a war with Houston and they're the most physical team in the country, so it makes sense that our legs seemed dead considering we had less than a 24 hour turnaround. Donnie is the best (and kinda only) interior scorer/shot creator. Without him, our offense is very one dimensional since our guards don't reliably pressure the rim in the half court.

On the bright side, we've seen that we can absolutely hang with the top teams athletically. Kansas and Houston have some monster athletes and we held our own. The last few years we looked slow and small and weak, and that's not the case anymore. There are gonna be games we're hot and games that we're cold, but our athleticism gives us a larger margin for error. Even if this isn't a good shooting team overall, Nait, Kingz, Kiy and Betsey all have track records of being high-level shooters.

Congrats on your 1st post. It only took you almost five seasons. Welcome!!!

Some might argue with your "high-level shooters" comment. The good thing, hopefully, is that everything tends to revert to the mean. Hopefully 3 point shooting and hopefully foul shots.

And hopefully our athleticsm will steal a few games.

We got that game yesterday down to two points. Obviously, Red and team would like a do over afterwards. But, it did show that the lack of a stud makes a huge difference.

 

[Lukeyloo]

3 games in less than 3 days for a team that exerts a lot of energy on defense is a bad recipe. You could see what we were capable of against Houston in the first game when the players were fresh. Against Kansas I saw tired players.

Against Kansas we were still bringing what energy we had on the defensive end because that's our focus, but on offense you could see that they weren't working as hard to get open. There wasn't motion, cutting, or driving like we saw in the first game. Guys were settling for jumpshots and they weren't hitting partly due to tired legs.

I'm preparing for more of the same today with a potentially even worse showing, and unless we pick off Tennessee in a week (I think we have a much better shot at that game with fresh legs than today) we're going to be in a tournament resume hole that we'll have to dig ourselves our of in conference play.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I'll reserve final judgement until after Tennessee but my summarised thoughts on this season are this... Coming into the season we didn't know whether Autry could put together a roster and whether he could coach that roster or not.

Roster - I give Autry an B for roster development. It goes 11 deep in legit players and there are a lot of complementary pieces. This is a good team with a high floor. It's clear that Autry has a vision for what he wants his teams to look like and how they should play and most importantly can execute that vision from a recruitment perspective. Also many bonus points for improving the strength and conditioning of the team and the general intensity. Unfortunately, he couldn't control the injury to Donnie. The only reason this isn't an A is that there is no legit elite game breaking talent on the team

Coaching - I give Autry a solid C for coaching... for the record last year he was the later after E and before G so a C is huge improvement. Most importantly for me, the team clearly is buying into what he wants to do and is trying their hardest to execute it. This is a well coached team... they know what they want to do and they execute it. Also I did see Autry yank JJ for bad play on O and on D so he is trying to hold them accountable. But when the team literally can't score... he needs his best offensive threats in the game so I get why JJ was in. I also disagree with those who say the rotation doesn't make sense... I think generally it does, although I do agree that the Zephir subs when you need offense is weird. Generally speaking this is a fun team that plays hard and is a pleasure to support.

On defense Autry gets an B. We will be one of the best defensive teams in Syracuse history and I think one of the the better teams in the country. Last year the D strategy was stay in front of your man and if that didn't work it was an easy path to the basket because there was absolutely no rotations or secondary help strategy that I can see. This year there is still the tight man to man emphasis, but there are also fun traps and hedges thrown in and the is a secondary help strategy. Most importantly, Autry has recruited really good players for his system. Only reasons this isn't a B is that I don't like the token full court pressure approach... either do it or not. I think they should do it to get much needed easy baskets. The other issue is the rebounding stinks.

On offense Autry gets a D. As man have pointed out the offensive strategy does not get guys shots in rhythm. It's basically a vanilla offensive strategy predicated on beating your man... much like the D was last year. I think because the lack of a strategy proven guys like George and Kingz are not looking great. They didn't just all of the sudden forget how to play offense. Unfortunately the lack of offense is going to tank the team unless this gets fixed. I think the easiest fix to push the tempo so they avoid the half court sets at all costs... I'm not sure why Autry doesn't do this more.

What does this mean for Autry? As of now I say bring him back. If we see the same improvement on O next year that we saw on D and roster construction this year we will have a really strong coach. Should we have paid Autry 3mm a year to learn on the job? Probably not. But I don't think we should burn it all down... I see the vision and I see the strategy. He needs to prove he can execute.

I'm excited to see what the rest of the year brings and I can honestly say that's the first time I could say that in a 5+ years.

He’s not getting $3 million a year

 

[Briancuse]

Call it the "Igor" effect or the "Blue Curtain" syndrome. Guys that come on here and point out every negative.

For example: Cuse won the National Championship in spite of Boeheim's coaching.

In the spirit of Thanksgiving week, why can't people just give thanks that they are alive and well and have a competitive Syracuse basketball team to distract them from everything else that may be wrong in their world around them.

We haven't made an ncaa tournament in 4 years. Thats insane.

 

[tbonezone]

be in a tournament resume hole that we'll have to dig ourselves our of in conference play.

just win the ACC tourney. been 20 years since we won a conference tourney ( BE 2006) .
and yet we call ourselves a top tier program ? i believe every original BE program won at least 1 the first 20 years. there's your golden ticket. and if you can't even take care of business on the block what makes you think you're a national contender ? get off the porch and start punching up ! otherwise quit barking.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

As a senior, he should be more reliable and come through when needed. Not there yet.

You quoted two posts and responded with something that doesn’t seem related to either of them.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Another year without an.ncaa tournament looking likely.

I don’t want to sneak in as a bubble team if John uses that as an excuse to keep red.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Weeeee only lost by 11. Helps our Ken Pom Pom no? Only thing they matters. Who cares about w’s anymore

Hell yeah!!!

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I don’t want to sneak in as a bubble team if John uses that as an excuse to keep red.

Why don't you just say "Sweet 16 or Bust"

 

[FrancoPizza]

Why don't you just say "Sweet 16 or Bust"

Because bust is a very ambiguous take

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Because bust is a very ambiguous take

If just making the tournament won't justify Wildhack keeping Red in your mind, just say that Red needs to make the S16 to keep his job.

 

[FrancoPizza]

If just making the tournament won't justify Wildhack keeping Red in your mind, just say that Red needs to make the S16 to keep his job.

I’m not the one making the decision.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I don’t want to sneak in as a bubble team if John uses that as an excuse to keep red.

I’m not the one making the decision.

Doesn't sound like you're going to agree with any decision Wildhack makes, unless Red gets fired.

 

[Briancuse]

I don’t want to sneak in as a bubble team if John uses that as an excuse to keep red.

I get it but I need to play meaningful bball games again. Its like a drug I need the tournament

 

[FrancoPizza]

I get it but I need to play meaningful bball games again. Its like a drug I need the tournament

We can’t prolong the inevitable any more.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Doesn't sound like you're going to agree with any decision Wildhack makes, unless Red gets fired.

Like you said it’s pretty simple sweet 16 or bust.

 

[Fan Always]

You quoted two posts and responded with something that doesn’t seem related to either of them.

Yes, I screwed up!! Still don’t know how to post, I guess. lol