KenPom Rankings

[OrangeinDC]

I said that in the game thread and somebody gave me a laugh emoji. Fans need to understand how important blowouts are now.

That was me, I wasn't being a smart ass, the emoji was because I liked the energy of the post. Blowouts are always good!

 

[hoopsupstate]

This brings up my "why are we giving Zephir minutes " pet peeve... He isn't being developed for the future, and he isn't going to help us blow teams out now, he's pretty bad.

So why give him minutes? Fennell or Anthony or even Womack could use those minutes on the court for development.

Because he’s earning it in practice. He plays hard and plays defense.

 

[tptcuse]

That was me, I wasn't being a smart ass, the emoji was because I liked the energy of the post. Blowouts are always good!

Damn, I'm not as good an emoji-reader as I thought I was. lol

 

[OrangeinDC]

Damn, I'm not as good an emoji-reader as I thought I was. lol

LOL... I'm probably not a good emoji-writer either!!!

 

[jncuse]

This brings up my "why are we giving Zephir minutes " pet peeve... He isn't being developed for the future, and he isn't going to help us blow teams out now, he's pretty bad.

So why give him minutes? Fennell or Anthony or even Womack could use those minutes on the court for development.

I understand your point. Its OK for it to happen, but it has to be limited. But playing Zephir a few minutes may cost us a few points here or there. Its typically not the 2 or 3 points here or there that kill your NET, it could hurt it a tad but probably not enough. Its game where you don't take any real lead against bad teams, which we know the feeling of.

we take care of things in the first half and take that big lead(like we should be doing, but have not been in recent years) it allows you to do some team management stuff later. But it needs to be a bit more limited in the past.

 

[jncuse]

None of the ranking systems should put out a ranking until most teams have played at least 4 games... Maybe December 1st?

There is a reason the BCS rankings don't come out till the midpoint of the season.

Unfortunately, ESPN needs to sell ads for early season games and they make all the decisions, so we have preseason rankings that mean nothing.

Looking at posts from the first page, which I never responded to earlier.

The one ranking that is owned by the NCAA, the NET, I believe only comes out in late November after about 5 games. So it does meet your objective.

In terms of the "independent" rankings that are not directly affiliated with the NCAA, like AP or KenPom there is not much that can be done. As you noted they gain interest from the public, so they are going to get out there.

 

[Niastri]

Because he’s earning it in practice. He plays hard and plays defense.

There are other ways to reward players who are demonstrating tangibles than taking on court minutes away from young players that need development time. I would have liked Fennell and White to split to Zephir's 11 minutes to just get used to the speed of the game and continue to acclimate.

I am getting a lot of argument to my comments on this, so maybe I am wrong, and I watched too many JB coached teams through the years.

 

[orangemass]

This brings up my "why are we giving Zephir minutes " pet peeve... He isn't being developed for the future, and he isn't going to help us blow teams out now, he's pretty bad.

So why give him minutes? Fennell or Anthony or even Womack could use those minutes on the court for development.

Obvious that Womack is being targeted for a redshirt

 

[Niastri]

Obvious that Womack is being targeted for a redshirt

True, I suspect he and Diawara will both redshirt.

It was a demonstration of how extreme my dislike of playing Zephir is that I included Womack in players I would rather see on the floor. I would rather White play 2G than Zephir be out there.

Some guys help the team in practice, the weight room and the classroom, not on the court during real games.

Red seems to be confused about Zephir's role.

Or he is way smarter than me and has a plan I can't understand.

EDIT: I also concede Red knows way more about basketball than I do, and has been watching practice. Some Oregon State bozos were probably saying the exact same thing about Kingz last year.

 

[OrangeinDC]

True, I suspect he and Diawara will both redshirt.

It was a demonstration of how extreme my dislike of playing Zephir is that I included Womack in players I would rather see on the floor. I would rather White play 2G than Zephir be out there.

Some guys help the team in practice, the weight room and the classroom, not on the court during real games.

Red seems to be confused about Zephir's role.

Or he is way smarter than me and has a plan I can't understand.

I like Zephir.. I don't think he's realistically in the rotation at all this season, I think he is a capable to fill in if someone is out for a couple minutes like the other night (up until redshirt window closes). I like the kid's defense; he's got good IQ and doesn't go out and try to do too much. I see Diawara, Womack and Zephir all ultimately being redshirted.

Redshirts for Womack and Diawara are because they're both young; but for Zephir, he just has more talented players ahead of him and no need to waste a year.

 

[Niastri]

I like Zephir.. I don't think he's realistically in the rotation at all this season, I think he is a capable to fill in if someone is out for a couple minutes like the other night (up until redshirt window closes). I like the kid's defense; he's got good IQ and doesn't go out and try to do too much. I see Diawara, Womack and Zephir all ultimately being redshirted.

Redshirts for Womack and Diawara are because they're both young; but for Zephir, he just has more talented players ahead of him and no need to waste a year.

Basketball redshirts are burned after one game of play. I don't even know if Zephir had a redshirt available anyway. His recruiting thread referred to him as a grad transfer.

He played in 21-22 for North Texas, then had a year off, a year in JUCO and then played at Montana State last season. I think only his year at JUCO allowed him to even play this year.

Zephir was a great pickup for his experience, his apparent work ethic, his intangibles.

I am very glad he is here, I was one of his biggest defenders when the boo birds came out in his recruiting thread... I don't think he should be playing, even if Starling is out. I don't believe he has upside, and development minutes should go to Souare, Fennell, Anthony, Betsey and White. We have too many guys that need minutes to get better, and Zephir isn't one of them.

 

[RedtheGOB]

I understand your point. Its OK for it to happen, but it has to be limited. But playing Zephir a few minutes may cost us a few points here or there. Its typically not the 2 or 3 points here or there that kill your NET, it could hurt it a tad but probably not enough. Its game where you don't take any real lead against bad teams, which we know the feeling of.

we take care of things in the first half and take that big lead(like we should be doing, but have not been in recent years) it allows you to do some team management stuff later. But it needs to be a bit more limited in the past.

I do wish someone could give us an idea on what the difference is between a 10, 20 or 30-40 point Efficiency night in the net against a sub 300 team. Where are the metrics nerds?

 

[RedtheGOB]

I like Zephir.. I don't think he's realistically in the rotation at all this season, I think he is a capable to fill in if someone is out for a couple minutes like the other night (up until redshirt window closes). I like the kid's defense; he's got good IQ and doesn't go out and try to do too much. I see Diawara, Womack and Zephir all ultimately being redshirted.

Redshirts for Womack and Diawara are because they're both young; but for Zephir, he just has more talented players ahead of him and no need to waste a year.

He gave solid mins and picked up full court pressure on their PG at Binghamton who was already exhausted with Nate George up his ass all game early on. If he can just do that a few mins and get an assist or two that's all we need.

 

[Niastri]

I do wish someone could give us an idea on what the difference is between a 10, 20 or 30-40 point Efficiency night in the net against a sub 300 team. Where are the metrics nerds?

The average margin of victory component is critical to the NET. It is capped at 10 points average margin of victory. This means you can win 8 games by 40 and play to a tie over all the other games and still come away with a maximum rating in the "margin of victory" category of the NET. Since margin of victory seems to be among the largest, if not the single largest criteria of the NET, this is critical to a high NET ranking.

Crushing bad teams actually seems more important to your NET ranking than beating good teams.

It sucks, but that's why we need to blowout bad teams like Binghamton.

Our resident NET expert jncuse can explain in more detail, and has.

 

[OrangeinDC]

Basketball redshirts are burned after one game of play. I don't even know if Zephir had a redshirt available anyway. His recruiting thread referred to him as a grad transfer.

He played in 21-22 for North Texas, then had a year off, a year in JUCO and then played at Montana State last season. I think only his year at JUCO allowed him to even play this year.

Zephir was a great pickup for his experience, his apparent work ethic, his intangibles.

I am very glad he is here, I was one of his biggest defenders when the boo birds came out in his recruiting thread... I don't think he should be playing, even if Starling is out. I don't believe he has upside, and development minutes should go to Souare, Fennell, Anthony, Betsey and White. We have too many guys that need minutes to get better, and Zephir isn't one of them.

Hmmmm..

Yeah, I don't really know his eligibility status etc. like you mentioned, definitely need to look at closer.

I don't think his minutes would affect anyone other than Fennell. Out of the 4 players that can play lead guard, he won't take minutes from JJ or George, however defensively I think he's a better option against smaller guards then Fennell.

Kiyan can run some PG too but defensively would be at a disadvantage (although he's not losing minutes to anyone).

Now that I'm thinking about it.. that could be his role on the team this year... small guard defender, maybe that's what Coach is thinking.

Good points in your post.

 

[OrangeinDC]

He gave solid mins and picked up full court pressure on their PG at Binghamton who was already exhausted with Nate George up his ass all game early on. If he can just do that a few mins and get an assist or two that's all we need.

Yeah, this is what I'm thinking.. Just a few minutes a game.

 

[CbusCuse]

Pretty sure Zephyr doesn't have any eligibility after this year. The one time waiver for non NCAA for (Juco or Community College) won't really apply as his years need to fall within the 5 year timeframe. If he hadn't redshirted and played Juco and CC for 2 years and then the NCAA for 2 years he would still have another year. But not sure on if the COVID year starts your 5 years. But either way this is his 6th year if COVID year starts your clock, 5th year if COVID year doesn't start the clock.

Bryce Zephir - Men's Basketball - Syracuse University Athletics

2020 he played at Chipola JC (Doesn't count due to COVID)
2021 he played at N. Texas (Year 1)
2022 he didn't play a N. Texas and redshirted (Still at Year 1)
2023 played at Salt Lake CC (Year 2)
2024 played at Montana State (Year 3)
2025 playing at SU (Year 4)

 

[ar inj]

When Zephir was signed SU said it was because he played hard and played good D. Some complained that his D stats did not back that up. Kid wanted to be here, maybe he is getting a few bucks. Good teammate, practices hard, plays D and knows his role - pass back on the break so someone else can get a monster slam. Get use to it; he is going to play a few minutes but probably not every game. Glad to see this guy’s role (and actually making a few 3s) are the big issues unlike after they crushed LeMoyne last year.

 

[Orangezoo]

When Zephir was signed SU said it was because he played hard and played good D. Some complained that his D stats did not back that up. Kid wanted to be here, maybe he is getting a few bucks. Good teammate, practices hard, plays D and knows his role - pass back on the break so someone else can get a monster slam. Get use to it; he is going to play a few minutes but probably not every game. Glad to see this guy’s role (and actually making a few 3s) are the big issues unlike after they crushed LeMoyne last year.

As long as he plays a very physical brand of on ball defense and doesn’t turn it over then 2-4 mins a game as needed is perfectly fine.

 

[Sherman20]

But… this is based on our players’ history.

Coaching is a major factor - x-factor.

Red was the coach in 2023-24.

 

[atlanticuse]

Red was the coach in 2023-24.

you're misunderstanding my comment.

1. I believe it uses data from the players' history, not the team history (yes, there is overlap, but that has gone from maybe 50-75% to less than 20% with the player movement). At least EvanMiya does, not 100% clear on KenPom, other than... Preseason ratings – now with transfers! | The kenpom.com blog (from 2016)
2. Yes, Red was the coach last year - that's why we sucked. But many of those guys are gone. So it can't impact our 2025-26 score much.

Now how much of 2024-25 translates to 2025-26? Unsure.

 

[Sherman20]

you're misunderstanding my comment.

1. I believe it uses data from the players' history, not the team history (yes, there is overlap, but that has gone from maybe 50-75% to less than 20% with the player movement). At least EvanMiya does, not 100% clear on KenPom, other than... Preseason ratings – now with transfers! | The kenpom.com blog (from 2016)
2. Yes, Red was the coach last year - that's why we sucked. But many of those guys are gone. So it can't impact our 2025-26 score much.

Now how much of 2024-25 translates to 2025-26? Unsure.

You’re misunderstanding my comment. Go back and read my ORIGINAL post. First of all, I’m not talking about last year when we had poor talent. I’m saying that in 2023-24, when Red was a first year head coach, we had the 85th ranked defense. Not great but much higher than all years since 2020-2021 (when we went to the Sweet 16). That 2023-24 team had some athleticism and talent (Judah, JJ, Copeland, Bell, Benny) but were undisciplined and very immature. This team has much better talent and athleticism (and hopefully discipline). I would think they could do better than 85th—much better. Essentially, in the last 5 seasons, the year with the best defense was coached by Red, not JB. I’m saying there’s a chance he can actually get this team to defend. As for KenPom, his algorithm predicted that we’d have the 100 best defensive efficiency this season, and I’m saying I think we’ll be much better than that, based on the makeup and talent of this team alone compared to Red’s first year as head coach.

 

[Cuse99&01]

Not sure if this has been posted or how true it is....

 

[Orangezoo]

Not sure if this has been posted or how true it is...

 

[Cusefan0307]

Not sure if this has been posted or how true it is...

Wut.