Kinda OT: for EPL fans - is JB really Arsene Wenger? | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Kinda OT: for EPL fans - is JB really Arsene Wenger?

What happened to ImperialOrange

Just hanging around, anxiously awaiting what is hopefully a top 4 finish.

I miss his posts and he had one after NSD on the FB board.
I know he has kids so maybe they are taking up more time than posting on this board which makes a lot of sense. He was in my top 5 must read posters.

Appreciate the kind words and spot on with your reasoning. I still lurk and am finding myself back here more frequently. Life gets busy and kids only stay kids for so long vs Cuse and Liverpool which I'll have until the day I die.
 
Bump... this thread is aging pretty well, sadly. Just like all the JB defenders are saying wait until next year all the Wenger defenders will be saying the same thing with the Auba signing. If only Arsene had a son who was about to play for him.

It seems apparent to me that both coaches have probably moved past their sell by dates... hopefully they both have a year of magic left. Well not Arsene.. I’m Liverpool fan so I’ll take one less competitor for top 4.
 
Bump... this thread is aging pretty well, sadly. Just like all the JB defenders are saying wait until next year all the Wenger defenders will be saying the same thing with the Auba signing. If only Arsene had a son who was about to play for him.

It seems apparent to me that both coaches have probably moved past their sell by dates... hopefully they both have a year of magic left. Well not Arsene.. I’m Liverpool fan so I’ll take one less competitor for top 4.
It was a great comp.
Arsenal had a great day today but there are behind these teams IMO.
Man City- Kentucky
Man U- Duke
Chelsea- North Carolina
Liverpool- Villanova
Tottenham- Virginia
 
It was a great comp.
Arsenal had a great day today but there are behind these teams IMO.
Man City- Kentucky
Man U- Duke
Chelsea- North Carolina
Liverpool- Villanova
Tottenham- Virginia

I'll give this a go.

City are decidedly not Kentucky. 10 years ago they were mid table nobodies who have transformed into a juggernaut of late. There's your Nova.

Tottenham cannot be UVA since they are decidedly a finesse team vs the rock fight wahoos. I actually want to say Gonzaga here. Small fanbase, high preseason accolades, but never quite get over on the big money boys.

The Arsenal/Cuse comparo, sadly, still holds true. Big name, big draw, but holding a level less to what they'd long been a custom. That said, still utterly entertaining on their day.

United probably have to be Kentucky, especially now that they have Mourinho and UK has fallen back to Earth. Both spend massively to get the best players too.

Liverpool i'll go with Arizona. Good through the 90s and early/mid 2ks, fell off for a bit, now back in the frame but not quite a believable contender at the moment.

That leaves Chelsea. They've only been relevant for 15 years due to big money influx but have obviously succeeded a fair amount with some easily hated players... The Ohio State Buckeyes anyone?
 
I'll give this a go.

City are decidedly not Kentucky. 10 years ago they were mid table nobodies who have transformed into a juggernaut of late. There's your Nova.

Tottenham cannot be UVA since they are decidedly a finesse team vs the rock fight wahoos. I actually want to say Gonzaga here. Small fanbase, high preseason accolades, but never quite get over on the big money boys.

The Arsenal/Cuse comparo, sadly, still holds true. Big name, big draw, but holding a level less to what they'd long been a custom. That said, still utterly entertaining on their day.

United probably have to be Kentucky, especially now that they have Mourinho and UK has fallen back to Earth. Both spend massively to get the best players too.

Liverpool i'll go with Arizona. Good through the 90s and early/mid 2ks, fell off for a bit, now back in the frame but not quite a believable contender at the moment.

That leaves Chelsea. They've only been relevant for 15 years due to big money influx but have obviously succeeded a fair amount with some easily hated players... The Ohio State Buckeyes anyone?
I’ll play...

Chelsea to me is UCONN... good because of a ton of money (State of Connecticut and one coach Jose). Had some success after said coach left but now are struggling. Easy to hate, a$$hole fans

Man City - I don’t think the Nova comparison holds because Nova has done it the right way whereas Man City bought their way in... kind of like Louisville did with Pitino. Also the pressing style of play holds too.

ManU - Duke... Wildly successful, iconic coach (Fergie) and everyone hates them.

Real Madrid - Kentucky... I know it’s not an EPL team but both are historic teams who have a history of big name coaches and star players and also for firing successful coaches (tubby and ancelotti)

Tottenham - to me this is Arizona... great talent that finishes highly but doesn’t actually win anything

Liverpool - UCLA... once dominant and never able to reclaim the glory days though they can be entertaining at times

Arsenal - Syracuse... one coach teams wedded to a system that is outdated. Both programs need a reset.

UNC - Barcelona... plays off of historic rival, entertaining team with an amazing history. Generally even neutrals like them as opposed to their rival.
 
I'll give this a go.

City are decidedly not Kentucky. 10 years ago they were mid table nobodies who have transformed into a juggernaut of late. There's your Nova.

Tottenham cannot be UVA since they are decidedly a finesse team vs the rock fight wahoos. I actually want to say Gonzaga here. Small fanbase, high preseason accolades, but never quite get over on the big money boys.

The Arsenal/Cuse comparo, sadly, still holds true. Big name, big draw, but holding a level less to what they'd long been a custom. That said, still utterly entertaining on their day.

United probably have to be Kentucky, especially now that they have Mourinho and UK has fallen back to Earth. Both spend massively to get the best players too.

Liverpool i'll go with Arizona. Good through the 90s and early/mid 2ks, fell off for a bit, now back in the frame but not quite a believable contender at the moment.

That leaves Chelsea. They've only been relevant for 15 years due to big money influx but have obviously succeeded a fair amount with some easily hated players... The Ohio State Buckeyes anyone?

I like your responses for the most part, but I'll disagree on two:

Spurs are not a finesse team under Pochettino; they are robust in holding midfield and defense and they can put some bite in a tackle. Dele Alli is about as dirty a player as you'll want to see, and Harry Kane is a big strong, very English forward.

I would say that Spurs' comparable would be somebody like Miami or Florida State. Or maybe Purdue. They haven't won anything, but they have some big strong athletes.

As for Chelsea, they did not just arrive with Abramovich in 2003.

They have the following accomplishments in their last Pre-Roman decade:
  • 1994 FA Cup Final
  • 1997 FA Cup Winner
  • 1998 League Cup Final
  • 1998 Cup Winners Cup Final
  • 2000 FA Cup Winners
  • 2000 Champions League group stage
  • 2002 FA Cup Final
This was the era with Ruud Gullit, Gianluca Vialli, Dennis Wise, Gianfranco Zola, Mario Melchiot, Frank Lebouef, Didier Deschamps and Roberto Di Matteo. They made a lot of Finals without winning them, but they were right there in the mix. It's not like Abramovich bought the worst team in the league.

Then mix in that they have won the most trophies in the Premier League over the last 10 years, including 3 Premier League Championships since 2010, plus the first London club to win Champions League, plus winning Europa League, 3 or 4 more FA Cups and 2 or 3 more League Cups, and I would say that Chelsea's basketball comparable would be: Louisville. Recent success, but disliked intensely in some circles. (Pitino = Mourinho) But still has some decent history, about a generation ago.
 
I’ll play...

Chelsea to me is UCONN... good because of a ton of money (State of Connecticut and one coach Jose). Had some success after said coach left but now are struggling. Easy to hate, a$$hole fans

Man City - I don’t think the Nova comparison holds because Nova has done it the right way whereas Man City bought their way in... kind of like Louisville did with Pitino. Also the pressing style of play holds too.

ManU - Duke... Wildly successful, iconic coach (Fergie) and everyone hates them.

Real Madrid - Kentucky... I know it’s not an EPL team but both are historic teams who have a history of big name coaches and star players and also for firing successful coaches (tubby and ancelotti)

Tottenham - to me this is Arizona... great talent that finishes highly but doesn’t actually win anything

Liverpool - UCLA... once dominant and never able to reclaim the glory days though they can be entertaining at times

Arsenal - Syracuse... one coach teams wedded to a system that is outdated. Both programs need a reset.

UNC - Barcelona... plays off of historic rival, entertaining team with an amazing history. Generally even neutrals like them as opposed to their rival.

You had such a solid thread you started 4 years ago, and you had to ruin it by calling UConn good? :)
 
Man City = Oregon. A never-was juiced to the top through an influx of money. Sheik Mansour is Phil Knight.

Chelsea = Louisville. Better history than Man City, but “cheated” by having a benefactor buy players.

Liverpool = UCLA. Used to be great, still occasionally frisky but at their best can’t do more than tease you now.

Spurs = Pitt. Success is entirely dependent on a single coach and a golden age of recruiting. Once the players “graduate” to bigger clubs and their coach moves on, they’ll return to their rightful place. Other possibility is Memphis when they had Calipari.

Man U = Duke. Lots of silverware. Worthy of being hated, buy all their best players.

Arsenal = Syracuse. As a rabid fan of both, this just makes me sad.
 
Watching Man City-Arsenal yesterday it felt like Duke-Syracuse.

This post is aging better by the month. I am sure Arsenal will spend crazy money this offseason to replace Giroux and Sanchez and bring in there own Bazley next year.
 
I think Wenger's out after this season. Arsenal added a Director of Football from Barcelona (who doesn't hold that title so long as Wenger is around), and a new Director of Scouting from Dortmund. And Kroenke's kid is spending a month in London to get immersed in the business. They've put the infrastructure in place for life after Wenger where all the power isn't concentrated in one person.
 
I think Wenger's out after this season. Arsenal added a Director of Football from Barcelona (who doesn't hold that title so long as Wenger is around), and a new Director of Scouting from Dortmund. And Kroenke's kid is spending a month in London to get immersed in the business. They've put the infrastructure in place for life after Wenger where all the power isn't concentrated in one person.


I agree, especially if they miss the top 4 again. They still have some real talent in the squad, but are just too weak willed. A new coach would change that locker room, and they need that.
 
I agree, especially if they miss the top 4 again. They still have some real talent in the squad, but are just too weak willed. A new coach would change that locker room, and they need that.
Arsene is done after this year.
He has lost that room and the fanbase is ready for change.
Back to back 3-0 losses to Man City are telling.
Syracuse Basketball is Arsenal Football.
 
So I like to bump this thread at least once every year to see if it's still aging well.

For those who don't follow the EPL, Wenger was forced out at the end of last year basically because his system stopped working and the team became quite boring to watch and became an average squad which underperformed the talent on it. Sound familiar?

BTW it's insane that I started this thread in 2014! Just like Wenger and his FA cups, JB has been able to pull some good NCAA runs out of his hat. All hail the single elimination tournament.
 
So I like to bump this thread at least once every year to see if it's still aging well.

For those who don't follow the EPL, Wenger was forced out at the end of last year basically because his system stopped working and the team became quite boring to watch and became an average squad which underperformed the talent on it. Sound familiar?
The Gunners are overachieving this year under Emery. They went a couple of months without a loss till last week.
 
The Gunners are overachieving this year under Emery. They went a couple of months without a loss till last week.
Yeah, I'm kind of shocked at how well they are doing. Show's what new blood can do. I find it interesting that Arsenal went form Wenger who is a proponent of beautiful flowing football to someone much more pragmatic and defensively oriented. I would love it if Syracuse hoops did what Syracuse FB did and go all in on offense and filling the dome.
 
Yeah, I'm kind of shocked at how well they are doing. Show's what new blood can do. I find it interesting that Arsenal went form Wenger who is a proponent of beautiful flowing football to someone much more pragmatic and defensively oriented. I would love it if Syracuse hoops did what Syracuse FB did and go all in on offense and filling the dome.
Except Arsenal's defense stinks. They've given up 23 goals in the EPL already. The team's not well-constructed. Two of the best players, Aubameyang and Lacazette are in some ways redundant. Emery can't figure out how to make use of Ozil and Ramsey so we're throwing a useless Alex Iwobi out there every match. Emery et al. need two transfer windows to get a couple of center backs and a left back to take over when Monreal is finished.
 
Not sure what updates to add... I think most reasonable fans would agree that JB has probably hung on for a few years too long, but I also think most reasonable fans, and this includes me, would agree that JB has earned the right to go out when he wants to... if that's after Buddy graduates so be it and if it's 10 years from now then so be it. Syracuse hoops pales in comparison from a revenue standpoint to Arsenal as a football club and business entity. The owners of Arsenal had to do something to protect their revenues whereas I don't foresee JB sticking around hurting attendance that much... I remember a different thread talking about how we are 2nd to Kentucky in attendance for the season.

This might be a bit more controversial but I do think JB the coach has changed... the man is a basketball genius and I think he knows that the product on the floor is putrid. I ask myself if I was in his shoes what would I do differently, since you know, if I weren't for this pesky product management/technology strategy career I've been on for the past 20 years I'd be the best hoops coach ever. You know what... I have zero answers. The problems with this team started this offseason:
- Frank got hurt and turned into a shell of a player he used to be
- Brissett somehow got worse at finishing and decided he wants to be an NBA 3 instead of a college 4
- Marek didn't get any better and got less aggressive
- Pascal didn't get any better
- Battle got no better
- Carey got hurt and lost development time

Then to exacerbate things, since the start of the season, somehow magically Hughes and Carey both have gotten worse. These dudes are still kids, you'd logically expect them to get better with more experience and not worse, but somehow all of our players have either stayed the same or gotten worse. I don't know how much that is on the coaches at this level vs the players.

The one area I will fault JB is our recruiting... just about every team we play against has solid point guards who can get into the teeth of a defense and create from there and big men who can at least catch the ball (see the goofy white dude with the ponytail on NCState or Funderburke). We somehow managed to construct a roster where we have no one who can get into the teeth of the D or have any sort of inside presence so we are the ultimate jump shooting one on one team. That's on the JB for building the roster this way, but having said that if we had the Frank of last year or Carey hadn't lost his confidence this would be a totally different team.

I do like where the future is going as we seem to have recruited kids who can shoot and play hoops and not just be long athletes... otherwise I'm not sure JG3 comes here. Next year we will have shooters at the 1 (Goodine/JG3), 2 (Hughes/JG3), 3 (Buddy/Guerrier)... hopefully an improved Carey and Brissett (players do get better) and an improved Marek and an improved Braswell at the 4. The 5 scares the crap out of because I don't trust Sidibe and I don't know if our other center is ready to play as a freshman. I hope we get a grad student center for next season. Anyways, we will have a deep roster, the question is whether we have enough high end talent. My prediction, next year the pieces fit well together and we will surprise everyone and become an offensive machine... I think our D will fall off big time however and I'm not sure the offense will be improved enough to compensate.

Going back to the OP... much like with Arsene, JB is trying to change, it remains to be seen whether it's too little too late.
 
I don't think JB is trying to change at all.
If he isn't trying to change then why go get JG3? He's the opposite of the last decade of points we have had since Flynn.
 

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