KJ

[OttoMets]

I'm a little confused about the "lack of effort" thing. This isn't Michael Carter-Williams putting his head down and jogging back on defense. We can all agree that Joseph looked congenitally incapable of raising his hands on defense, but I never viewed this as a lack of effort.

 

[jordoo]

I'm a little confused about the "lack of effort" thing. This isn't Michael Carter-Williams putting his head down and jogging back on defense. We can all agree that Joseph looked congenitally incapable of raising his hands on defense, but I never viewed this as a lack of effort.

He was told to do it all season and failed to. He may have needed to make a mental effort to remember to do it but either way he did not. Whatever the reason he did not do it and it is an effort thing that anyone is capable of doing to some extent. The arms out top limit passing angles and sight lines its part of the design of the defense.

 

[RF2044]

I'm a little confused about the "lack of effort" thing. This isn't Michael Carter-Williams putting his head down and jogging back on defense. We can all agree that Joseph looked congenitally incapable of raising his hands on defense, but I never viewed this as a lack of effort.

Minor quibble [as you and I are generally on the same page] I don't agree that he was "congenitally incapable" -- it is a technique thing that can definitely be improved. It has to, or he won't play. But congenitally incapable to me means he can't do it. He absolutely can; KJ has all of the tools [including size / athleticism] to excel defensively in our system. Now, its up to him.

 

[OttoMets]

Minor quibble [as you and I are generally on the same page] I don't agree that he was "congenitally incapable" -- it is a technique thing that can definitely be improved. It has to, or he won't play. But congenitally incapable to me means he can't do it. He absolutely can; KJ has all of the tools [including size / athleticism] to excel defensively in our system. Now, its up to him.

Just an overstatement for humor's sake on my part. He certainly can do it; hopefully he does.

He was told to do it all season and failed to. He may have needed to make a mental effort to remember to do it but either way he did not. Whatever the reason he did not do it and it is an effort thing that anyone is capable of doing to some extent. The arms out top limit passing angles and sight lines its part of the design of the defense.

It's weird. Ordinarily I'd agree with you - when you've got 30-odd games to do a simple thing like raise your arms and you don't do it, one can be forgiven for thinking that you're not trying.

And maybe that's the case. But I don't believe it. Joseph has always struck me as a bright, high-effort kid. Why he played with his arms at his sides, I don't know. Bad role models? Limited core strength? Game moving too fast for him to multi-task? (yeah, these sound like silly excuses to me, too)

 

[two3zone]

I don't think Kaleb looked any more lost than Roberson or BJ did their freshman year yet Roberson was still a god and had high expectations going into year 2, BJ, I don't even want to go there as he was seen as a legend. Why so much praise after those two freshman seasons when they looked beyond clueless and Kaleb being written off and shipped off to Timbuktu? Kaleb has work to do, no doubt, but he did show enough flashes to not write him off, something the two mentioned before did not show their first year.

 

[jordoo]

Just an overstatement for humor's sake on my part. He certainly can do it; hopefully he does.



It's weird. Ordinarily I'd agree with you - when you've got 30-odd games to do a simple thing like raise your arms and you don't do it, one can be forgiven for thinking that you're not trying.

And maybe that's the case. But I don't believe it. Joseph has always struck me as a bright, high-effort kid. Why he played with his arms at his sides, I don't know. Bad role models? Limited core strength? Game moving too fast for him to multi-task? (yeah, these sound like silly excuses to me, too)

I here you and would never characterize him as lazy but at some point you have to make the adjustment. Its's some sort of effort whatever you want to label it, physical, mental, attention whatever he has to use his arm on defense and he did not. Its really really strange no doubt and I can't remember ever seeing anything like that for the whole length of a season.

 

[jordoo]

I don't think Kaleb looked any more lost than Roberson or BJ did their freshman year yet Roberson was still a god and had high expectations going into year 2, BJ, I don't even want to go there as he was seen as a legend. Why so much praise after those two freshman seasons when they looked beyond clueless and Kaleb being written off and shipped off to Timbuktu? Kaleb has work to do, no doubt, but he did show enough flashes to not write him off, something the two mentioned before did not show their first year.

The difference is that Roberson and BJ got sat down for their mistakes because they had guys infront of them. We got to see Kaleb as a starter for what 29 of 30 games or something. He wasn't ready for that roll which is the case for a lot of freshman but usually when that is the case there are other options.

 

[two3zone]

T difference is that Roberson and BJ got sat down for their mistakes because they had guys infront of them. We got to see Kaleb as a starter for what 29 of 30 games or something. He wasn't ready for that roll which is the case for a lot of freshman but usually when that is the case there are other options.

That's my point, he got penalized because we had nobody else so he had to play. These guys were all freshman and played poorly. Why were two given the benefit of the doubt to be dominate the next season and one get's kicked in the nuts? At the end of the day Roberson is still very very inconsistent on offense and while he'll have amazing rebounding games then end up with 5 the next. BJ still shot horribly and now is playing at LaSalle and still hyped up around here like he's going to score 35 points a game and be a lottery pick, but Joseph gets treated like dirt.

 

[jordoo]

That's my point, he got penalized because we had nobody else so he had to play. These guys were all freshman and played poorly. Why were two given the benefit of the doubt to be dominate the next season and one get's kicked in the nuts? At the end of the day Roberson is still very very inconsistent on offense and while he'll have amazing rebounding games then end up with 5 the next. BJ still shot horribly and now is playing at LaSalle and still hyped up around here like he's going to score 35 points a game and be a lottery pick, but Joseph gets treated like dirt.

Human nature mostly IMO. Many seem unable to see that skills and physical attributes that Joseph displayed last season and only see all the mistakes which eventually lead to indecision, lack of confidence and an over all poor freshman campaign when it came to decision making. I think he could go either way and that he is the deciding factor in that, which is why I think we will see a vastly improved player this season.

 

[RF2044]

That's my point, he got penalized because we had nobody else so he had to play. These guys were all freshman and played poorly. Why were two given the benefit of the doubt to be dominate the next season and one get's kicked in the nuts? At the end of the day Roberson is still very very inconsistent on offense and while he'll have amazing rebounding games then end up with 5 the next. BJ still shot horribly and now is playing at LaSalle and still hyped up around here like he's going to score 35 points a game and be a lottery pick, but Joseph gets treated like dirt.

I personally think you are mischaracterizing the sentiment in relation to BJ / Roberson. I think most posters were high on Roberson [who some labeled "The Beast"] because of the strong finish to his high school career, which included him dominating Karl Anthony Towns--the #1 pick in this year's NBA draft--in the state championship game. I think most also recognized that him not being cleared until late September 2014 was an ENORMOUS setback--both in terms of getting his feet on solid academic ground, and also because he missed the team's summer tour, got a late start in college, etc. So while his play was pretty poor his freshman year, many posters were willing to give him a mulligan due to contextual circumstances.

BJ was never considered a "god" -- that is ridiculous. The most optimstic prognostications I can remember about BJ pointed to his shooting / rebounding / size on the wing as being something that would really help last year's team. Many of those same posters were also terrified about his scrawny frame, and whether that would prove to be a liability for the entire duration of his collegiate career. Many posts last year lamented the fact that he wasn't a REDSHIRT [forget about being a "god"]. As it turns out, he rebounded pretty well, but couldn't get his shot to drop until the very end of the season. So in general, he was a non-factor. And we sure could have used some additional complimentary outside shooting [and scoring in general] last season. But to claim that he was expected to dominate isn't accurate, IMO--a more accurate way to put it [again, IMO] was that some posters were optimistic that he'd provide some bench firepower and potentially give us the super sub scoring bench guy that we lacked in 2014. Didn't turn out that way.

 

[orangefan13]

Roberson has a long way to go.
1. slow release on his shot, and he has to make them midrange before stepping out to three some,
2. I don't really view him as a isolation player YET.
3.Neither does Roberson have a nice one on one dribble yet, which goes with number 2 but shooting is one thing dribbling against your man is another.
4.As far as athleticism I would agree hes not a McCullough or Grant, but neither was Wes Johnson yet Roberson is stronger then Wes and a better offensive rebounder imo.
5. Hes more of a tentative type of player, more tentative then CJ Fair and even KJO imo. (keep in mind tentative types wait their turn)
But all of this could magically just click together at one point, but imo its more likely some parts will before others. However if they all do all click at the same time he could become like Dion Waiters and shoot up top 15 in the draft even.

 

[rstone7727]

The staff has been recruiting TB for what, four years? I think we all fail to see KJ's recruitment for what it was.. To play point his Freshman, Sophomore and possibly/probably his Senior years. They seem to have slotted TB to play during KJ's Junior year which I find unusual but not earth shattering. Every kid that plays D1 BB knows there is a chance he will be recruited over, it's the nature of the sport.

Not sure if others have seen it but I noticed KJ's lateral movement is a tad slow which prevents him from excelling on defense. Don't get me wrong, I think he is plenty quick straight ahead but that lateral movement could cost him a starting position going ahead. Not sure why this was not seen during his recruitment, maybe it was..? Anyhow, I don't see it keeping him from being a capable backup and occasional starter though.

If we can get Battle, it's a no brainer that he will get the big minutes while he's here. If not we'll fall back on KJ, G and others to play the 1...

 

[RoatanCuse]

I may be wrong on this, but KJ and TC got blown by almost at will last year by quick ACC guards. Lateral quickness, or lack of, was essentially the cause as was KJ's refusal to be coached, regarding holding his arms up on D. My gosh, this is not footwork, setting picks, running out to guard the perimeter from inside or boxing out we are talking about. It's the simplest of all coachable traits. Keep your arms up or sit. How difficult is that to understand? Mental block, physical impossibility or what, if other frosh can grasp this basic habit, and it IS a habit, then so can, or should KJ. Sounds like I am hating, but it's rather a simple observation. Hope he gets it together this fall, but as ( I think Jordoo) a more knowledgeable poster said...(paraphrasing) " if he doesn't grasp this simple task over the course of a season, then there is good reason to be suspect". Maybe cue cards or posters in the stands saying "hands up"? Maybe a chant from the student section? End of rant.

 

[SoBristol]

So, this isn't going to decided by posters.
KJ has the 2015-16 season to show that he has improved. He is playing on an international team -- maybe he wins some games. He needs to be a lot stronger than he was at 165 lbs. If he gets better (highly likely), all is well for him and the program. Will he be better than a guard recruited for 2016-17? Players and coaches sort that out on the court, not here.

 

[OlsenRyan13]

Remember Michael Edwards? Did it under similar situation. Even tried to replace him with a small forward. Not sure where "no possible way" comes from when its been done before.

They didn't give up on him, they moved him to shooting guard his sophomore year and he started every single game that year. If you're going to call me out, at least be right...

 

[ORANGEsPHK]

Lots comments I agree with and some I do not agree with in this thread. Players will always be criticized by fans and sometimes put on a pedestal of optimism by those who hope/see a leap in progress. The thing about KJ I most admired is that he never seemed to put his head down when he got yanked due to his mistakes - he seemed to understand that he made a mistake. He did not make as much progress as I was hoping for, but JB's system isn't the most freshmen friendly.

One thing that definitely stood out to me was how much time he got on the floor. Yes, there were not many options, but I can't recall when a player who wasn't consistent get that much play time in JB's system. Its all conjecture as to what KJ will do in his sophomore year, but I agree with JB that KJ's mid-range game is something he needs to focus on (not the dribble and let the defender come to you before you put up the shot) - and to be able to see the floor better ... and to become a better defender.

(Cooney? Yeah, he went under the screen a lot and I am not sure why JB didn't correct him on that all season. Not sure what was going on there).

 

[two3zone]

Roberson has a long way to go.
1. slow release on his shot, and he has to make them midrange before stepping out to three some,
2. I don't really view him as a isolation player YET.
3.Neither does Roberson have a nice one on one dribble yet, which goes with number 2 but shooting is one thing dribbling against your man is another.
4.As far as athleticism I would agree hes not a McCullough or Grant, but neither was Wes Johnson yet Roberson is stronger then Wes and a better offensive rebounder imo.
5. Hes more of a tentative type of player, more tentative then CJ Fair and even KJO imo. (keep in mind tentative types wait their turn)
But all of this could magically just click together at one point, but imo its more likely some parts will before others. However if they all do all click at the same time he could become like Dion Waiters and shoot up top 15 in the draft even.

I agree with everything you said up until Roberson being a lottery pick. He is just not a 3 in the NBA, he is SOOOOOOOO far away from being able to play the 3 that I don't think he is capable of it at that level, if he's not able to play the three and is undersized at the 4 then there is no way he is drafted in the lottery. Even if he does surprisingly well, I don't think he gets into the first round. If Rak is a second round pick, Grant is a second round pick, Roberson probably doesn't get drafted at all unfortunately.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

'If you can't trust your point guard to bring the ball up court, you just might not be a tournament team."

 

[OGBJ20]

That's my point, he got penalized because we had nobody else so he had to play. These guys were all freshman and played poorly. Why were two given the benefit of the doubt to be dominate the next season and one get's kicked in the nuts? At the end of the day Roberson is still very very inconsistent on offense and while he'll have amazing rebounding games then end up with 5 the next. BJ still shot horribly and now is playing at LaSalle and still hyped up around here like he's going to score 35 points a game and be a lottery pick, but Joseph gets treated like dirt.[/QUOTE

▶ 2:17
www.theacc.com/video/54ed5e07e4b079087303c568
Feb 24, 2015
Syracuse sophomore B.J. Johnson matched his career high with 19 ... Steve Martin and Mike ... Like him or not, BJ and performances like this will be hard to come by and will be missed.

 

[OGBJ20]

View attachment 46926▶ 2:17
www.theacc.com/video/54ed5e07e4b079087303c568
Feb 24, 2015
Syracuse sophomore B.J. Johnson matched his career high with 19 ... Steve Martin and Mike ... Like him or not, BJ and performances like this will be hard to come and will be missed.

And this-

▶ 0:36
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOhntP5bFR8
Feb 24, 2015 - Uploaded by ACC Digital Network
With Syracuse up 2 late against Notre Dame, the Orange break the press with Michael Gbinije ...

 

[OGBJ20]

And this-

View attachment 46927▶ 0:36
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOhntP5bFR8
Feb 24, 2015 - Uploaded by ACC Digital Network
With Syracuse up 2 late against Notre Dame, the Orange break the press with Michael Gbinije ...

And this

▶ 0:23
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuYQHoEGbk8
Dec 9, 2014 - Uploaded by steve1016mtv
BJ Johnson had a nice dunk against Holy Cross on November 28, 2014 at the dome.

 

[OGBJ20]

View attachment 46926▶ 2:17
www.theacc.com/video/54ed5e07e4b079087303c568
Feb 24, 2015
Syracuse sophomore B.J. Johnson matched his career high with 19 ... Steve Martin and Mike ... Like him or not, BJ and performances like this will be hard to come and will be missed.

And this

▶ 1:44
www.theacc.com/video/54dc1cfae4b06a5d7d69fd3e

Syracuse vs Boston College | 2014-15 ACC Men's Basketball Highlights. Syracuse was ... Posted: 02/11/2015 - Updated: 02/11/2015. By: ACC Digital Network ...

 

[OGBJ20]

View attachment 46926▶ 2:17
www.theacc.com/video/54ed5e07e4b079087303c568
Feb 24, 2015
Syracuse sophomore B.J. Johnson matched his career high with 19 ... Steve Martin and Mike ... Like him or not, BJ and performances like this will be hard to come and will be missed.

▶ 2:18
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nECFqQ5vE98
Feb 21, 2015 - Uploaded by ACC Digital Network
Pittsburgh vs Syracuse | 2014-15 ACC Men's Basketball Highlights ... PHILIPPINES vs INDONESIA Basketball Men's 2015 SEA Games ...

 

[Cuse Action]

How are people shocked by this? Y'all are acting like we became Boston College overnight and should be ok with a freshman Point Guard who was downright awful.. Not mediocre, he was bad.

It sucks and I feel bad for the kid but this is big business. A lot of people don't like to hear that but it is, especially when the NCAA ***** you over and takes away some scholly's. Even if we get one back per year, we can't afford to have dead weight on this team. Right now we have two in Kaleb and Chino.

We have to contend with Duke and UNC every year. Not sure if you guys are aware of that yet...

Total BS

 

[two3zone]

Like him or not, BJ and performances like this will be hard to come by and will be missed.

It has nothing to do with liking or disliking.

He shot under 30% from the field during his time here. Should I only praise that statistic or ignore it? I understand you don't want to hear criticism about your son, I get it, but if every parent was on this board we couldn't have one rational discussion about anybody.

If you don't like what I have to say, you're probably best off blocking me.