KJ

[OGBJ20]

It has nothing to do with liking or disliking.

He shot under 30% from the field during his time here. Should I only praise that statistic or ignore it? I understand you don't want to hear criticism about your son, I get it, but if every parent was on this board we couldn't have one rational discussion about anybody.

If you don't like what I have to say, you're probably best off blocking me.

Dude you don't understand me or what being a supporter is about. We deal with criticism good or bad everyday. There is no one on this earth harder on BJ than me including your coaching staff about life basketball etc. So as a fan good or bad, being able to dissect the game and understand the whole situation is your issue not mine. We will be more than fine doing what we do with no thanks to you and your expertise in hoops. And maybe if you don't like what I have to say maybe you should block me, a parent of a former Orange player.

 

[PoppyHart]

Why do I get the feeling this thread is going to morph into a Josh Wright highlight reel? This is just bizarre.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Total BS

Not really, imo.

 

[SoBeCuse]

This assessment is going to look pretty foolish when Kaleb shows improvement this year.

I hope this, you hope this, we all hope this and, most likely, it happens. However, his "assessment" is completely accurate of KJ's play last season. When in late FEBRUARY he is getting pulled in favor of a SF to simply bring the ball up...'Houston we have a problem.' I personally have never seen anything like it in my lifetime of watching hoops of any squad, SU or other nationwide. The falling down/turnover machine on fast breaks/breakaways?! It can only improve and I'm sure it will. We just can't afford to deal with too many projects right now. Based on last season; he's a project.

 

[Dave85]

I hope this, you hope this, we all hope this and, most likely, it happens. However, his "assessment" is completely accurate of KJ's play last season. When in late FEBRUARY he is getting pulled in favor of a SF to simply bring the ball up...'Houston we have a problem.' I personally have never seen anything like it in my lifetime of watching hoops of any squad, SU or other nationwide. The falling down/turnover machine on fast breaks/breakaways?! It can only improve and I'm sure it will. We just can't afford to deal with too many projects right now. Based on last season; he's a project.

I know you have keen eye after all this time but I sure hope KJ can become a PG worth playing.

 

[Dave85]

I hope this, you hope this, we all hope this and, most likely, it happens. However, his "assessment" is completely accurate of KJ's play last season. When in late FEBRUARY he is getting pulled in favor of a SF to simply bring the ball up...'Houston we have a problem.' I personally have never seen anything like it in my lifetime of watching hoops of any squad, SU or other nationwide. The falling down/turnover machine on fast breaks/breakaways?! It can only improve and I'm sure it will. We just can't afford to deal with too many projects right now. Based on last season; he's a project.

You may have a point. The numbers in this article are not very encouraging:

http://sujuiceonline.com/2015/04/01...ketball-expect-from-kaleb-joseph-in-year-two/

 

[MSOrange]

You may have a point. The numbers in this article are not very encouraging:

http://sujuiceonline.com/2015/04/01...ketball-expect-from-kaleb-joseph-in-year-two/

Well that's not a very positive article Dave.

 

[reedny]

I hope this, you hope this, we all hope this and, most likely, it happens. However, his "assessment" is completely accurate of KJ's play last season. When in late FEBRUARY he is getting pulled in favor of a SF to simply bring the ball up...'Houston we have a problem.' I personally have never seen anything like it in my lifetime of watching hoops of any squad, SU or other nationwide. The falling down/turnover machine on fast breaks/breakaways?! It can only improve and I'm sure it will. We just can't afford to deal with too many projects right now. Based on last season; he's a project.

I can't argue with your point that we're thin in the guard rotation (hence the staff's renewed energy on the recruiting trail). We're also thin in the middle (which they addressed).

But as far as KJ's status as a project, I think some context is helpful. Think back a few years. I remember BT, in his first couple of seasons (especially his freshman year), having trouble getting the ball up the court against (some) quicker D-1 guards. He [by edit] moved over to the 2g his sophomore year ... while he developed the confident (even bruising) handle that he displayed junior and senior years. While he was learning, JB had someone else bring the ball up-court (not all the time during his first two seasons but in a number of games). I can also recall MCW getting stripped a few times his first year. JB had to have someone else bring up the ball. It's not that unusual for a first-year player to have TO's and dumb plays -- especially when you're running the offense as a freshman and you were brought in to play 5-10 mpg as a backup to a 5 star player.

No doubt, KJ had his ugly moments (Michigan). But by the same token, he had some good games (on the road against BC) where we could see the flash (7-7) that the coaches saw when he was recruited.

I think it's also worth mentioning that we're spoiled. SU's had such a string of NBA-quality guards I think our comparative perspective is skewed. Not so long ago, JB had Dion Waiters coming off the bench. Carter-Williams had to wait a year to start.

I will say that Kaleb's defense was disappointing. He leaves his hands down, which is annoying to the staff, I'm sure. And I don't think he was physically ready for the banging, the quickness of the elite guards he saw at Duke, UNC, UVA and others. But his mid-range game was solid all year. And I think you'll see more of that, a little better 3 point shooting, improvement on D and more confidence. Early in the season, we may see G move up top. But if he's still playing there in the meat of ACC play, I think it's a bad sign (I'm not expecting it).

 

[Dave85]

Well that's not a very positive article Dave.

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not asking for a Pollyanna view. I just don't think there's a reason to emphasize only the negative when even with a loss you can emphasize something good.

I thought the headline was neutral: "What should Syracuse basketball expect from Kaleb Joseph in year two?"

I though it was a good thoughtful analysis. He did say "The mercurial guard" which is a little positive. I hope KJ succeeds.

 

[MSOrange]

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not asking for a Pollyanna view. I just don't think there's a reason to emphasize only the negative when even with a loss you can emphasize something good.

I thought the headline was neutral: "What should Syracuse basketball expect from Kaleb Joseph in year two?"

I though it was a good thoughtful analysis. He did say "The mercurial guard" which is a little positive. I hope KJ succeeds.

I know. I was just messing with you. We disagree on the Mike Waters issue but all in good humor.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I can't argue with your point that we're thin in the guard rotation (hence the staff's renewed energy on the recruiting trail). We're also thin in the middle (which they addressed).

But as far as KJ's status as a project, I think some context is helpful. Think back a few years. I remember BT, in his first couple of seasons (especially his freshman year), having trouble getting the ball up the court against (some) quicker D-1 guards. He didn't wind up starting his sophomore year ... and he came off the bench while he developed the confident (even bruising) handle that he displayed junior and senior years. While he was learning, JB had someone else bring the ball up-court (not all the time during his first two seasons but in a number of games). I can also recall MCW getting stripped a few times his first year. JB had to have someone else bring up the ball. It's not that unusual for a first-year player to have TO's and dumb plays -- especially when you're running the offense as a freshman and you were brought in to play 5-10 mpg as a backup to a 5 star player.

No doubt, KJ had his ugly moments (Michigan). But by the same token, he had some good games (on the road against BC) where we could see the flash (7-7) that the coaches saw when he was recruited.

I think it's also worth mentioning that we're spoiled. SU's had such a string of NBA-quality guards I think our comparative perspective is skewed. Not so long ago, JB had Dion Waiters coming off the bench. Carter-Williams had to wait a year to start.

I will say that Kaleb's defense was disappointing. He leaves his hands down, which is annoying to the staff, I'm sure. And I don't think he was physically ready for the banging, the quickness of the elite guards he saw at Duke, UNC, UVA and others. But his mid-range game was solid all year. And I think you'll see more of that, a little better 3 point shooting, improvement on D and more confidence. Early in the season, we may see G move up top. But if he's still playing there in the meat of ACC play, I think it's a bad sign (I'm not expecting it).

I have probably been too harsh in my critique of his game but I'll stick to my guns. I don't want to even bring back memories of his defense. I do agree that his mid-range game seems pretty solid and probably his best attribute.

I don't remember Triche struggling so much. Could be early Alzheimer's settling in. Triche I felt more was too passive in general early on but I never felt he was incapable of simply running the offense. He did not seem as shaky with the ball as KJ was. Sure he was pulled on occasion but I never remembered it being a common occurrence. Triche also was juggling positions often. I think the staff was trying to figure out if he was more effective as a PG or SG. He also wasn't as high profile of a recruit as KJ was. MCW had a high dribble and he was tall. Sort of give him a pass.

 

[jordoo]

I have probably been too harsh in my critique of his game but I'll stick to my guns. I don't want to even bring back memories of his defense. I do agree that his mid-range game seems pretty solid and probably his best attribute.

I don't remember Triche struggling so much. Could be early Alzheimer's settling in. Triche I felt more was too passive in general early on but I never felt he was incapable of simply running the offense. He did not seem as shaky with the ball as KJ was. Sure he was pulled on occasion but I never remembered it being a common occurrence. Triche also was juggling positions often. I think the staff was trying to figure out if he was more effective as a PG or SG. He also wasn't as high profile of a recruit as KJ was. MCW had a high dribble and he was tall. Sort of give him a pass.

Most importantly Triche was solid on D from day one and very good from about halfway through his soph season till he graduated. Fundamentally Triche was one of our best guards defensively in the zone. Others where more disruptive and better altogether but as far as being in the right place and playing the scheme he was flawless for almost 3 years.

 

[NineOneSeven]

College forums often contain posters who have strange infatuations with player relatives.

 

[two3zone]

Why do I get the feeling this thread is going to morph into a Josh Wright highlight reel? This is just bizarre.

This is all I got.

 

[OHIORANGES]

I can't argue with your point that we're thin in the guard rotation (hence the staff's renewed energy on the recruiting trail). We're also thin in the middle (which they addressed).

But as far as KJ's status as a project, I think some context is helpful. Think back a few years. I remember BT, in his first couple of seasons (especially his freshman year), having trouble getting the ball up the court against (some) quicker D-1 guards. He didn't wind up starting his sophomore year ... and he came off the bench while he developed the confident (even bruising) handle that he displayed junior and senior years. While he was learning, JB had someone else bring the ball up-court (not all the time during his first two seasons but in a number of games). I can also recall MCW getting stripped a few times his first year. JB had to have someone else bring up the ball. It's not that unusual for a first-year player to have TO's and dumb plays -- especially when you're running the offense as a freshman and you were brought in to play 5-10 mpg as a backup to a 5 star player.

No doubt, KJ had his ugly moments (Michigan). But by the same token, he had some good games (on the road against BC) where we could see the flash (7-7) that the coaches saw when he was recruited.

I think it's also worth mentioning that we're spoiled. SU's had such a string of NBA-quality guards I think our comparative perspective is skewed. Not so long ago, JB had Dion Waiters coming off the bench. Carter-Williams had to wait a year to start.

I will say that Kaleb's defense was disappointing. He leaves his hands down, which is annoying to the staff, I'm sure. And I don't think he was physically ready for the banging, the quickness of the elite guards he saw at Duke, UNC, UVA and others. But his mid-range game was solid all year. And I think you'll see more of that, a little better 3 point shooting, improvement on D and more confidence. Early in the season, we may see G move up top. But if he's still playing there in the meat of ACC play, I think it's a bad sign (I'm not expecting it).

Pretty sure BT started every game as a SOF..

 

[jordoo]

Pretty sure BT started every game as a SOF..

He started every game for 4 years straight! I believe he started in more games than any other SU player and also started in the most wins ever.

 

[reedny]

Pretty sure BT started every game as a SOF..

To get somewhat of a predictor in what sophomore leap (if any) Joseph will make, we took a look at the last four point guards to start at Syracuse as freshmen: Adrian Autry, Jason Hart, Gerry McNamara and Jonny Flynn. I initially wanted to include Brandon Triche, who started at point guard in the 2009-10 season, but ultimately excluded him because he didn’t start at point guard in his sophomore year.

http://sujuiceonline.com/2015/04/01...ketball-expect-from-kaleb-joseph-in-year-two/

 

[Brooky03]

To get somewhat of a predictor in what sophomore leap (if any) Joseph will make, we took a look at the last four point guards to start at Syracuse as freshmen: Adrian Autry, Jason Hart, Gerry McNamara and Jonny Flynn. I initially wanted to include Brandon Triche, who started at point guard in the 2009-10 season, but ultimately excluded him because he didn’t start at point guard in his sophomore year.

http://sujuiceonline.com/2015/04/01...ketball-expect-from-kaleb-joseph-in-year-two/

Excellent write-up. I think one important thing to note is what role those players were recruited to fill. For instance, Joseph was recruited to chill out on the bench for most of his Freshman season behind Ennis and take the reins as a Sophomore. I think all of the other starting Freshman PG's were expected to play significant minutes in their first season, correct? This might speak to the belief that Joseph will show more improvement... hopefully.

 

[two3zone]

Pretty sure BT started every game as a SOF..

He did, he started every game of his college career.

edit: didn't realize somebody already posted this, was hiding on the next page.

 

[reedny]

Pretty sure BT started every game as a SOF..

Yes, good call. Jordoo and 2-3 also noticed this ... so I made the correction. BTW, the article says he didn't start AT PG ... it didn't mention that he moved over to the 2g (and started there). However, this was a difficult adjustment for BT and he was not as productive or confident for a long time in the new spot (if my memory is correct).

 

[reedny]

He started every game for 4 years straight! I believe he started in more games than any other SU player and also started in the most wins ever.

Yes, thank you .. corrected by edit. Sophomore year he didn't start at PG .. I think he moved over (and started) at the 2, which was a rough transition for him.

 

[Dave85]

I have probably been too harsh in my critique of his game but I'll stick to my guns. I don't want to even bring back memories of his defense. I do agree that his mid-range game seems pretty solid and probably his best attribute.

I don't remember Triche struggling so much. Could be early Alzheimer's settling in.

The second thing that goes is the memory and I can't remember the first.

 

[SoBristol]

Need to look at what changed (or not) year over year. Change in team composition, especially in the backcourt? Physical change in the player? International experience? Just individual improvement in skills?

To take an example or two (outside that group of 4 pgs): Triche was fully grown as a high school junior; Andy Rautins was rail thin as a college frosh. Not much room for Triche to get stronger. Rautins improved as he added muscle.

KJ needs to grow up from 165 lbs to 185 as a junior. And he will. It will be a big factor in his improvement curve. Some of the others (Autry and Flynn) were more ready as frosh, and maybe had less room (and less need) for a big step up. It is a different position, but KJ reminds me of the typical skinny SU forward who can't excel without adding muscle. It takes a little more time.

 

[RoatanCuse]

Very nice presentation, ReedNY. Good to reflect back on other starting frosh. I know it has been brought up before, but can anyone explain KJ's inability to raise his arms on D? What are the chances of improvement? And is he working on his lateral quickness? Obviously i want, along with most of us, him to pick it up on the other end of the court, as well. He already has the size. Thanks for the great piece.

 

[reedny]

Very nice presentation, ReedNY. Good to reflect back on other starting frosh. I know it has been brought up before, but can anyone explain KJ's inability to raise his arms on D? What are the chances of improvement? And is he working on his lateral quickness? Obviously i want, along with most of us, him to pick it up on the other end of the court, as well. He already has the size. Thanks for the great piece.

I think you'll see a much better performance from him this year. He needed to mature physically, and as a basketball player (especially on defense). But as has been pointed out, this was his expected trajectory when he was brought in. Hopefully, he'll play with more energy on D, and keep doing the things he does well -- running the pick and roll with DC2 and TR, hitting mid-range jumpers and driving the lane. If/when he's not playing up to his potential, the staff can have G move up from the 3, or bring in Richardson and pair him with TC to have two (or 3) shooters on the floor.