Laying it out

[FAL]

For some reason, this thread reminded me of CaliCuse and I realized that I haven't seen any of his posts in months. Is he ok? I loved reading his fan-crazed rants.

Still recovering from some kind of surgery/treatment, last I heard. Anxiously awaiting his comments as well...

 

[Scooch]

so are we at the setting the house on fire stage already? Hmmm, what a surprise.

Just a few folks. Mostly people who weren't happy with the coaching change.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Babers has heavily inferred that this year isn't going to be the year. I thought it was kind of odd in july or aug. not sure if he said something today - but i had a slight similar feeling before... but my similar feeling felt refreshing to me that a coach wasn't giving us coach speak like shaf or grob.

they need to recruit very specific players to run this style offensively and defensively.

Some of what we have seen vs Louisville, USF, ND it wouldn't matter if we had the players from the 2003 Bucs on D. Way too often this year pre snap I have said oh great we are . That has nothing to do with talent or missed assignments.

There were several plays today where Kizer threw it to the wrong guy. They still got a big play because of talent but he didn't see guys who were wide open because of scheme.

I don't think I have ever seen an opponent score on the first play before, yet it has happened twice this season.

 

[Chip]

Some of what we have seen vs Louisville, USF, ND it wouldn't matter if we had the players from the 2003 Bucs on D. Way too often this year pre snap I have said oh great we are . . . . . . . That has nothing to do with talent or missed assignments.

There were several plays today where Kizer threw it to the wrong guy. They still got a big play because of talent but he didn't see guys who were wide open because of scheme.

I don't think I have ever seen an opponent score on the first play before, yet it has happened twice this season.

I know Pitt did it one Marrone year. We may have started with the ball, can't recall. But I know their first offensive play was an 80 yard bubble screen. It was the one game I went to that year. And the one game I went to this year, Louisville, I had a Die Hard 2 moment. How can the same happen to the same guy twice?

 

[Ish88888]

Was it the comment about them having 4-5 star guys on special teams and us using walk-one and scholarship kids on special teams? I've seen no where where he says our guys are bad. Just the facts of life Louisville, USF, and ND have higher ranked talent all over the field.

Boise state won for 10 years playing 2-3 star talent against the big boys. Coaching and scheming is part of it too. Are we going to be blind as fans and give dino a pass on his coaching blunders chalking it up as, " its a process"? There were obvious coaching mistakes today, do we just call out the talent disparity every time ? Are we allowed to have a pulse and question these things? Hell yea, we should.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Was it the comment about them having 4-5 star guys on special teams and us using walk-one and scholarship kids on special teams? I've seen no where where he says our guys are bad. Just the facts of life Louisville, USF, and ND have higher ranked talent all over the field.

Right. He's just telling it how it is. Not belittling or making fun of them. There's not much he can do coupled with the youth and injuries as well. I thought he was being frank and fair.

 

[44cuse]

Dino actually get it. Scott Shafer is why the program is in trouble right now. We gave the keys to someone totally in over there head and we are paying for it.

If this is Saturday hyperbole reaction a loss, ok got it. It if it's not, and you are actually serious...

Scott Shafer is not the reason the program is in trouble right now. Not even close.

44cuse

 

[RICuse44]

Boise state won for 10 years playing 2-3 star talent against the big boys. Coaching and scheming is part of it too. Are we going to be blind as fans and give dino a pass on his coaching blunders chalking it up as, " its a process"? There were obvious coaching mistakes today, do we just call out the talent disparity every time ? Are we allowed to have a pulse and question these things? Hell yea, we should.

Boise had a program.

You can't take a 2-3 star recruit and have them start or play a significant role for their first 2-3 years in the program. Occasionally you will land a stud but those are not the programs foundation.

Our best defender imo is Franklin. He is a true junior but should be a redshirt sophomore. He should be a complement on defense and not the guy who has to make every play.

I bet most of the players logging significant time on those Boise teams were redshirt juniors and seniors. The 4 and 5 star players are the ones physically ready from the get go to play. We are a developmental team. We need our core players to be 22 and 23 yo men not 18 and 19 yo kids. There is a huge difference in those ages. ND can roll out a freshman laden defensive backfield because they are all 4 star recruits.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

Boise had a program.

You can't take a 2-3 star recruit and have them start or play a significant role for their first 2-3 years in the program. Occasionally you will land a stud but those are not the programs foundation.

I bet most of the players logging significant time on those Boise teams were redshirt juniors and seniors. The 4 and 5 star players are the ones physically ready from the get go to play. We are a developmental team. We need our core players to be 22 and 23 yo men not 18 and 19 yo kids. There is a huge difference in those ages. ND can roll out a freshman laden defensive backfield because they are all 4 star recruits.

I think this was a large part of Boise's success. They also played maybe two tough games a year, the first, when the bigger programs werent running full bore yet, and the last when the bigger programs had been deflated. The blue turf was a nice home field advantage for them (for whatever reason). They played 8-9 soft games in mid season so their more talented players werent getting blown up week after week. And they ran some pretty progressive systems before the hi-temppo, offensive craze really caught on.

 

[Stern]

Boise state won for 10 years playing 2-3 star talent against the big boys. Coaching and scheming is part of it too. Are we going to be blind as fans and give dino a pass on his coaching blunders chalking it up as, " its a process"? There were obvious coaching mistakes today, do we just call out the talent disparity every time ? Are we allowed to have a pulse and question these things? Hell yea, we should.

1) Boise's talent level those years is higher than Syracuse's current talent level
2) Boise also played a garbage schedule in a garbage conference and had 3 months to prepare for 1 big game a year which was easy to ramp up for and easy to get your team up for it was their Super Bowl. SU is in a killer division in a big-time conference where every other week we are playing a Top 10 or Top 5 team.

 

[Stern]

Scott Shafer is not the reason the program is in trouble right now. Not even close.

IF it's not him then who's fault is it? It's all Schafer

 

[TheCusian]

IF it's not him then who's fault is it? It's all Schafer

Dumb.

It's the admin for not helping P get better facilities. It's P for not changing with the times. It's Robinson. Lots of Robinson. It's Marrone for not recruiting well and leaving at the wrong time. It's the admin for not supporting Dougie well. It's the admins fault for not widening the search and hiring Shafer. It's Shafer hiring bad O coordinators. It's Shafer's lack of improvement in recruiting. It's the admin for over scheduling OOC.

It's a lot of things. And it's fixable, but not in one off-season. Babers and Wildhack are turning the freighter around but it will take time.

 

[CIL]

Boise state won for 10 years playing 2-3 star talent against the big boys. Coaching and scheming is part of it too. Are we going to be blind as fans and give dino a pass on his coaching blunders chalking it up as, " its a process"? There were obvious coaching mistakes today, do we just call out the talent disparity every time ? Are we allowed to have a pulse and question these things? Hell yea, we should.

Tons of JUCOs and those 2-3 starts didn't play until their 3rd year in the program...

 

[Newhouser]

Of the players you listed only Dungey and maybe Slayton are not easily replaceable.

Strickland is not an ACC RB right now, he's starting because we have literally nobody else at RB that is any threat and can handle calling protections. Ishmael and Estime haven't exactly done much this year and probably wouldn't see the field (other than Estime at PR) if we had even BGSU level talent at WR.

Go watch some tape of Cordy against Louisville and Franklin being out of position against everybody. Bennett is a nice player but not exactly a game changer.

Who was Shafer's best recruit? Strickland? Babers has already recruited an elite 11 QB and a grad transfer WR that is going to have the single best season in Syracuse history by game 8. I'll take my chances with Babers.

Though I agree with most of your post it is funny how far Ish has dropped in our eyes and hearts since pre-season

 

[zjscuse]

Dumb.

It's the admin for not helping P get better facilities. It's P for not changing with the times. It's Robinson. Lots of Robinson. It's Marrone for not recruiting well and leaving at the wrong time. It's the admin for not supporting Dougie well. It's the admins fault for not widening the search and hiring Shafer. It's Shafer hiring bad O coordinators. It's Shafer's lack of improvement in recruiting. It's the admin for over scheduling OOC.

It's a lot of things. And it's fixable, but not in one off-season. Babers and Wildhack are turning the freighter around but it will take time.

This complete quote is exactly the recipe for disaster. Thank you atleastsees the bigger picture. No one needs to get fired i think all of the negative people are just talking out of frustration from the previous coaches tenures. You guys babers was handed a dumpstsr fire, that penalty isnt called on cordell. Erv catches that damn ball and its a completely... completely different game. Babers and co are caoching there asses off and in two years are going yo kick ass. Quit whining about recruiting we knew as well as the recruits and coaches this was a possible 4 win season. The point of this season is the little bits of improvement... and you know what i saw a ton of positives yeaterday A TON. We have the #1 tackeler in dade county coming in (NF) 4 star qb whos going to tear it up in two years and a slew of guys from high profile school that fit the bill with size.. quit your bitching be a REAL fan and stick this out. Theres going to be alot of frustration this year ... but we all knew that quit trying to tell yourself other wise... this time its worth the wait cuz its going to work!

 

[RMH44]

Though I agree with most of your post it is funny how far Ish has dropped in our eyes and hearts since pre-season

Unfortunately, he has TE skills in a WR body. Great kid, but just doesn't have the speed or quickness needed at WR in this offense.

We seem to be a left-handed team when it comes time to stretch the field vertically. Very few vertical routes from the other side.

 

[Millhouse]

Boise state won for 10 years playing 2-3 star talent against the big boys. Coaching and scheming is part of it too. Are we going to be blind as fans and give dino a pass on his coaching blunders chalking it up as, " its a process"? There were obvious coaching mistakes today, do we just call out the talent disparity every time ? Are we allowed to have a pulse and question these things? Hell yea, we should.

They didn't play big boys very often

 

[44cuse]

IF it's not him then who's fault is it? It's all Schafer

You can't possibly be serious. This started with: Greg Robinson (I would say P but not looking to start that argument on a simple point like this). I know not everyone has been watching SU Football for 30 years, but I think it's a fair expectation of anyone who wants to make those types of comments to at least take a SLIGHT look back at what things were like before they started watching.

44cuse

 

[TheCusian]

The truth is that we probably played better than we did vs UCONN, but it was against superior talent and coaching. Losing vs teams like that masks growth.

 

[Stern]

You can't possibly be serious. This started with: Greg Robinson (I would say P but not looking to start that argument on a simple point like this). I know not everyone has been watching SU Football for 30 years, but I think it's a fair expectation of anyone who wants to make those types of comments to at least take a SLIGHT look back at what things were like before they started watching.

44cuse

I mean yes and no. Obviously the end of the P era and the Robinson era plays a part in it, no doubt. And I don't want to re-hash a 15 year history as to why we are where we are we all know the story. Sure some if it goes back to Robinson and stuff but the shelf life on blaming GRob for everything in my opinion has sorta expired as we sit today. Our current situation sorta lays more at the feet of Doug/Scott eras in my opinion. There does come a point where we can't keep blaming GRob and the others who have come since have to take ownership/blame of the situation.

I'm sure many will disagree but that's how I see it.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I mean yes and no. Obviously the end of the P era and the Robinson era plays a part in it, no doubt. And I don't want to re-hash a 15 year history as to why we are where we are we all know the story. Sure some if it goes back to Robinson and stuff but the shelf life on blaming GRob for everything in my opinion has sorta expired as we sit today. Our current situation sorta lays more at the feet of Doug/Scott eras in my opinion. There does come a point where we can't keep blaming GRob and the others who have come since have to take ownership/blame of the situation.

I'm sure many will disagree but that's how I see it.

I blame shafer for the mess. Doug left him a program heading in the right direction and he took it a couple steps backward in 3 years, he didn't drive it off a cliff but he definitely left Dino in a rough spot . I though shafer did fine his 1st years considering what he lost on offense but he could never find an O system that worked, people are to easy on shafer ( we all liked the guy) because he was actually pretty bad as a HC as well as recruiting.

 

[Bayside44]

I blame shafer for the mess. Doug left him a program heading in the right direction and he took it a couple steps backward in 3 years, he didn't drive it off a cliff but he definitely left Dino in a rough spot . I though shafer did fine his 1st years considering what he lost on offense but he could never find an O system that worked, people are to easy on shafer ( we all liked the guy) because he was actually pretty bad as a HC as well as recruiting.

Wonder how it would've went with Hackett as HC and SS as DC.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Wonder how it would've went with Hackett as HC and SS as DC.

I think we still struggle. We had major talent deficiencies at WR with no plan to address that.

 

[Bayside44]

I think we still struggle. We had major talent deficiencies at WR with no plan to address that.

Marrone / Hackett had a system and were starting to bring in guys to play it. We lost a lot of kids that would be upperclass leaders now when Marrone shuffled off to Buffalo. SS was a strong enough DC. We see the mismash of Gross's mistake now with what we're running out there.

 

[alphaorange]

Tons of JUCOs and those 2-3 starts didn't play until their 3rd year in the program...

Plus, if you look at the team's page, there are usually several on "watch" lists. Definitely a sign of underrated 2&3 stars...