LB Geoff Cantin-Arku in the portal | Page 15 | Syracusefan.com

LB Geoff Cantin-Arku in the portal

supp

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I think the thing that is being overlooked is. They had a 2 hour conversation. 2 hours. 2 hours.

That must have been a lot of pent up frustration coming out to have a 2 hour sit down, and still say, I'm done.

2 hours folks. Think about that. You don't 2 hour meetings at work (well sometimes). That must have been a hell of a meeting.

I don't know. If it was an easy decision for him, it doesn't take 2 hours. And I want to say Babers told reporters that it was 3 hours long. Would you want to be in a room with someone who you feel has screwed you over for 3 hours?
 

qdawgg

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Because they didn't get offered at Syracuse or any other P5 school.

Since you know NYS is a goldmine of undiscovered talent, explain the difference between HS FB in NY compared to TX. Other than the size of the stadiums.

Provide at least 2 sufficient responses to prove you’re not gas lightning.
 

CousCuse

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Since you know NYS is a goldmine of undiscovered talent, explain the difference between HS FB in NY compared to TX. Other than the size of the stadiums.

Provide at least 2 sufficient responses to prove you’re not gas lightning.
Well, I feel that the top 20% of the athletes that play football in Texas have had advanced coaching and training, while in New York it's less than 1%.(Just ballpark guesses). So, I believe there is a pool of very high potential athletes that are overlooked in New York. The problem for Syracuse is, they don't get any of the top athletes from other states, a couple of real good guys and then some development players that everyone else has passed on. It takes a different approach to talent evaluation, but it seems to me that the upside is way higher. Maybe Syracuse could develop a relationship with a D3 school like Utica College, which was founded by SU, to be a program that develops New York players and if they really blow up, they could transfer to Syracuse. It seems possible with the new portal rule.
 

orangepassion

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I wonder if there's any shot he returns if Mikel goes pro. If he's smart, he would wait and see, b/c if Mikel goes, he walks into a starting spot in a Defense he knows. He transfers, he starts from scratch.
 

qdawgg

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Well, I feel that the top 20% of the athletes that play football in Texas have had advanced coaching and training, while in New York it's less than 1%.(Just ballpark guesses). So, I believe there is a pool of very high potential athletes that are overlooked in New York. The problem for Syracuse is, they don't get any of the top athletes from other states, a couple of real good guys and then some development players that everyone else has passed on. It takes a different approach to talent evaluation, but it seems to me that the upside is way higher. Maybe Syracuse could develop a relationship with a D3 school like Utica College, which was founded by SU, to be a program that develops New York players and if they really blow up, they could transfer to Syracuse. It seems possible with the new portal rule.

It’s a multi faceted problem which makes the probability of success much lower. Even if there could be potential success it wouldn’t be realized for at least years from now with significant effort that couldn’t be accomplished by SU’s effort alone.

The biggest issue IMO that prevents success right now is accumulative advantage. The HS players in hotbed states around the country have 2 advantages compared to many NYS kids. First are the NYS rules regulating the amount of practice time and games HS FB players can play (someone correct me any information that’s changed recently. Haven’t coached in a few years so haven’t followed rules for anything that well). Every year that goes by, players in other states accumulate more practice time and game reps compared to NY kids so by the time they head to college they have thousands of hours more football specific weight room training, practice time, and game experience. Even with 4 years at SU that can’t be just made up b/c the same kids that go in to college with an advantage continue to build their advantage (to varying degrees based on talent, physiology, and dedication) as the NY kids are trying to catch up.

Partially as a result of the above and multiple other factors. NYS students in my opinion are more likely to focus on at least one other sport if they’re an athlete. The RB in Texas who wants to go D1 and beyond is “doing” FB 12 months out of the year in some capacity. Devito is actually a good example of this, he played and practiced FB year round. There’s less athletes in NY doing that, in football.

So the first roadblock is state laws and regulations. The second issue is the sports culture isn’t geared to FB in the same way it is in other states. Are NY athletes capable of playing D1 FB, absolutely. That’s kind of your argument and that’s not wrong. But that’s not the question to ask. The question is, whether the athletes want to dedicate themselves to play FB at a higher level, year round in a way they largely are not doing now. The answer to that right now is no, IMO. Of course there are kids doing that but not at the % of student athlete population necessary to make the impact you are thinking of.

The other issue is, to turn that around would require massive resources if SU was going to lead the charge in this. The state regulations aren’t going to change. So is it worth it to SU when those resources can be used in other ways in recruiting. Probably not.
 

CousCuse

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It’s a multi faceted problem which makes the probability of success much lower. Even if there could be potential success it wouldn’t be realized for at least years from now with significant effort that couldn’t be accomplished by SU’s effort alone.

The biggest issue IMO that prevents success right now is accumulative advantage. The HS players in hotbed states around the country have 2 advantages compared to many NYS kids. First are the NYS rules regulating the amount of practice time and games HS FB players can play (someone correct me any information that’s changed recently. Haven’t coached in a few years so haven’t followed rules for anything that well). Every year that goes by, players in other states accumulate more practice time and game reps compared to NY kids so by the time they head to college they have thousands of hours more football specific weight room training, practice time, and game experience. Even with 4 years at SU that can’t be just made up b/c the same kids that go in to college with an advantage continue to build their advantage (to varying degrees based on talent, physiology, and dedication) as the NY kids are trying to catch up.

Partially as a result of the above and multiple other factors. NYS students in my opinion are more likely to focus on at least one other sport if they’re an athlete. The RB in Texas who wants to go D1 and beyond is “doing” FB 12 months out of the year in some capacity. Devito is actually a good example of this, he played and practiced FB year round. There’s less athletes in NY doing that, in football.

So the first roadblock is state laws and regulations. The second issue is the sports culture isn’t geared to FB in the same way it is in other states. Are NY athletes capable of playing D1 FB, absolutely. That’s kind of your argument and that’s not wrong. But that’s not the question to ask. The question is, whether the athletes want to dedicate themselves to play FB at a higher level, year round in a way they largely are not doing now. The answer to that right now is no, IMO. Of course there are kids doing that but not at the % of student athlete population necessary to make the impact you are thinking of.

The other issue is, to turn that around would require massive resources if SU was going to lead the charge in this. The state regulations aren’t going to change. So is it worth it to SU when those resources can be used in other ways in recruiting. Probably not.
I guess my fundamental thought is the best athletes are born and not made. They won a genetic lottery that gave them better tendons, reflexes, instincts etcetera. Those are the ones to get and develop. Just seems like there is value there. It doesn't really fit the recruiting model Syracuse has, but seeing the rankings they have gotten over the last 10-20 years, it doesn't seem like a big risk either. a lot of times people develop in their careers or sports because they got the chance, none of these guys are getting a chance.
 

HRE Otto IV

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We need to do a better job in NY and the Northeast. We should be pushing NY's team and the King of the North angle. We need that identity. There are too many kids from NY and the Northeast that slip through the cracks. We need that tight relationship with HS coaches to help spread that net. We also needs to do a better job in NY State against Pitt and Rutgers. Protect the house.

Just in NY state these players are currently in the NFL and didn't go to P5 schools. I don't expect us to get many of these but shouldn't we get a few? Especially when we have been so bad? Shouldn't we have more than UConn? Shouldn't we be at worst #2 in NY State HS NFL players?

RB David Fluellen
C JC Tretter
G Rashaad Coward
G Ryan Hunter
G Ali Marpet
G Greg Van Roten
T Timon Parris
TE Stephen Carlson
TE Jody Fortson
WR Tom Kennedy
DT Folorunso Fatukasi
DT Caraun Reid
DT Chris Williams
DE Demone Harris
DE Shamar Stephen
OLB Kahzin Daniels
OLB Steven Means
FS Dean Marlowe
SS Elijah Riley

That all being said we cannot rely solely on NY State kids to be good. There just isn't enough talent.

Screen Shot 2021-11-24 at 4.10.23 PM.png
 

HRE Otto IV

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We need to do a better job in NY and the Northeast. We should be pushing NY's team and the King of the North angle. We need that identity. There are too many kids from NY and the Northeast that slip through the cracks. We need that tight relationship with HS coaches to help spread that net. We also needs to do a better job in NY State against Pitt and Rutgers. Protect the house.

Just in NY state these players are currently in the NFL and didn't go to P5 schools. I don't expect us to get many of these but shouldn't we get a few? Especially when we have been so bad? Shouldn't we have more than UConn? Shouldn't we be at worst #2 in NY State HS NFL players?

RB David Fluellen
C JC Tretter
G Rashaad Coward
G Ryan Hunter
G Ali Marpet
G Greg Van Roten
T Timon Parris
TE Stephen Carlson
TE Jody Fortson
WR Tom Kennedy
DT Folorunso Fatukasi
DT Caraun Reid
DT Chris Williams
DE Demone Harris
DE Shamar Stephen
OLB Kahzin Daniels
OLB Steven Means
FS Dean Marlowe
SS Elijah Riley

That all being said we cannot rely solely on NY State kids to be good. There just isn't enough talent.

View attachment 211038

And if you notice there aren't many skill guys. We will need to get our top skill guys still from down South. But NY has guys on both sides of the lines that can help. Those kids are missed by the big schools. Get our lines solidified with Northeast kids and sprinkle in fast AF Southern kids.
 

HRE Otto IV

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Also I have thought for years we do not recruit Ohio enough. Syracuse isn't that far away and we play close by (Pitt and Louisville), plus we can schedule OOC MAC games. How do we not have a single player from a close by, talent rich state? Maybe we get kids who want to get away from B1G country. Or maybe we get those good MAC players.

The amount of current NFL players we have is embarrassing. We are behind a lot of mediocre G5 (not P5) schools. That is unacceptable. If we were in the MAC we would be tied for 5th.
 

syrBossHogg

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I guess my fundamental thought is the best athletes are born and not made. They won a genetic lottery that gave them better tendons, reflexes, instincts etcetera. Those are the ones to get and develop. Just seems like there is value there. It doesn't really fit the recruiting model Syracuse has, but seeing the rankings they have gotten over the last 10-20 years, it doesn't seem like a big risk either. a lot of times people develop in their careers or sports because they got the chance, none of these guys are getting a chance.

But you still have to develop those athletes and the structure and culture in NY isn't there compared to Florida or Texas.
 

Offthedome

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Man o man, amen brother. Great post says one older dude to another, lol, but spot on.

Losing really does take its toll, and even though it is even more acute and widespread now some degree of this me me me approach leaving at the first sign of difficulty has always been going on.

The place I played we went something like 3-24 our first three years, and started with 55 players our first year.

That losing takes it’s toll as I mentioned, coaching changes, with divided fractured locker rooms as a result, more losing, coaches “losing the locker room”, etc. such that the attrition rate of players leaving, quitting was very high.

Well with finally a good coach and assistants brought in to modernize the approach, brought in some good young players able to contribute early on, the combination of that, finally, we got good going 7-1-1 the last year championship type year beating the #2 nationally ranked team the last game.

Here’s the point, by that last year the 55 kids we started with was down to five of us who stuck it out. As we were beating that #2 team, in the stands and along the sidelines were many of those same kids, the ones who didn’t transfer.

Partied with a bunch of them afterward and couldn’t help seeing and feeling, not to mention hearing from some of them at different points, their regrets at not hanging in there. Both Learned lessons carried over to this day.

Can’t imagine there will not be similar regrets by many that have chosen to leave, perhaps not for a championship type season end result but, hopefully, for some good successes that with one injury or quirk of fate they would of been a part of, especially if/when things don’t pan out for them at their landing spot.
I played baseball in college and we had 4 or 5 quit for various reasons every year. Some realized that playing a sport in college, even at a small Div. I school, is a ton of work and time and they didn't want to invest in it. Others felt like our coach was screwing them. The guy starting ahead of me quit after the coach started me just to light a fire under his butt (coach admitted this to me in the end of season meeting), and I had a great weekend and took his job. The point is, kids are kids; they always have been and always will be. Some work hard and have drive and a mature perspective, others don't. Those who don't move on to different things. Heck, I nearly quit after struggling mightily my freshman year. I'm grateful that I didn't.

Cuseregular sums it up well here, in my opinion. We forget these guys are kids who see the world through the lens of a kid. And most of them probably don't have someone advising them other than their parents, who are perhaps just as naive or misguided as the kids are. I'm certainly guilty of judging these guys like they are adult pros. That's on me.

All that said, I hate the transfer portal rule.
 

orangenauburn

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But you still have to develop those athletes and the structure and culture in NY isn't there compared to Florida or Texas.
They developed at other schools

We haven't developed our players well since Doug. He got the most out of his recruits.

We did lightly recruit some of the kids listed, and a few attended camps.

It's all about development.

Syracuse needs to invest in support staff for development and hire coaches who can maximize the potential kids have
 

syrBossHogg

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They developed at other schools

We haven't developed our players well since Doug. He got the most out of his recruits.

We did lightly recruit some of the kids listed, and a few attended camps.

It's all about development.

Syracuse needs to invest in support staff for development and hire coaches who can maximize the potential kids have

I was referring to the local high school talent.
 

qdawgg

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I guess my fundamental thought is the best athletes are born and not made. They won a genetic lottery that gave them better tendons, reflexes, instincts etcetera. Those are the ones to get and develop. Just seems like there is value there. It doesn't really fit the recruiting model Syracuse has, but seeing the rankings they have gotten over the last 10-20 years, it doesn't seem like a big risk either. a lot of times people develop in their careers or sports because they got the chance, none of these guys are getting a chance.

Yeah I don’t believe that as being the significant difference. That’s a way to simple of an explanation that goes in to being an athlete at the highest level. Yes, some kids are born natural athletes and some people just grasp mathematical concepts far easier than others. But there’s 90% of the equation to becoming a superior athlete you’re completely sweeping under the rug to continue your argument.

But I should know better then to go down a rabbit hole with cous cous, so I only have myself to blame.
 

CousCuse

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Yeah I don’t believe that as being the significant difference. That’s a way to simple of an explanation that goes in to being an athlete at the highest level. Yes, some kids are born natural athletes and some people just grasp mathematical concepts far easier than others. But there’s 90% of the equation to becoming a superior athlete you’re completely sweeping under the rug to continue your argument.

But I should know better then to go down a rabbit hole with cous cous, so I only have myself to blame.
We need to turn over every rock and beat every bush to get better talent. We are outmanned every game and our current strategy is a great big fail. Couscuse is an idiot, good grief. Don't you see the size difference in our team vs Clemson, Lville, NCST. Pitt will be more of the same.
 

CousCuse

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Is this guy for real?! He left a p5 school for these crap teams. See ya
Syracuse is the lowest P5 team in my ranking, close to Duke. Kansas was there too but it is plain to see that Liepold has them going up.
 

CousCuse

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Probably, but after this weekend there will be more FBS players entering the portal. As we know a verbal offer is just a verbal offer.
Freeze saw him play against Liberty, that offer is solid.
 

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